Author Topic: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question  (Read 13905 times)

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eric hohlfelder

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85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« on: Nov 17, 2007, 08:26:34 AM »
I'm planning to update my suspension from my sagging 3" downey leafs and would like to swap to a cross over steering set up.  I'm planning to run my Toyo MT 33's for a while as they work great and should keep my stock birfieds in tack.  My thought was to keep the lift as low as possible 3.5" but add lots of flex and keep it drivable at highway speeds :driving:.  Well here goes:  Looking to go with Alcan 2.5" lift rears 52" long moving the fixed hangers 5" forward with a bud built long ramped set up.  A 1" lift shackle will be used to gain the extra height.  I have an 87 rear axle housing already installed to help with the inner fender clearance and 1.5" front axles spacers from All Pro.  Up front I'd run the alcan 6 leaf spring pack using the stock front hanger and my existing 1" lift bomange shackles from Sky Mfg.  The front axle pin will be located 1" forward to gain clearance at the back of the fender as I just rub now with things hammered flat.  I'd then like to install a cross over steering setup to gain some flex and eliminate the push pull J arm weak link.  I'll have to limit the up travel of the spring to keep the drag link off the frame but this will also increase spring life.  Will this work?  The sway bar will be removed and maybe I'll try to fit an IFS swaybar which mounts from behind the axle.  For shocks alcan recommended Bilstine 5100's to keep things under control.  I will add shock towers to maximize the droop of the springs and maybe even cut into the inner fender to optimize shock height I guessing of about 12".  Any thoughts on this setup would be greatly appreciated.  I'm mostly concerned about the cross over steering working OK.  I could just keep it stock push pull and run the OME 2" springs which I hear flex good?  :-\ The rest of the drive train is now done.  I have a Yota Master V6 4.88 detroit rear, single 4.7 Marlin case, bud built high clearance belly pan, and a high pinion front 4.88 e-locker set up from Marlin as well. :usa:   

eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #1 on: Nov 19, 2007, 09:34:33 AM »
Trying to add soom photos of rig.
 

 



« Last Edit: Nov 19, 2007, 02:02:38 PM by eric hohlfelder »

jimbo74

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #2 on: Nov 19, 2007, 09:40:47 AM »
Trying to add soom photos of rig.
 

 

you have to have photos hosted on a server, or upload them directly to the site to display
:usa:

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #3 on: Nov 19, 2007, 09:43:32 AM »
build sounds good, you might be able to stay with the push pull, but most people will recommend to do the hysteer. you will really want to look into hysteer since you are moving the axle forward.
:usa:

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eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #4 on: Nov 19, 2007, 09:50:06 AM »
Trying to use the attach file option for posting the pictures, not sure if its working for me.  Thanks for responding, I've seen many reads but no info.  Do you think the frame clearance will be sufficient to get some up travel?  Are there any height differences in the different steering arms from Marlin, All-Pro etc.  In your opion how much highway drivability do you loose without the torque arm attached using the cross over steering.

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #5 on: Nov 19, 2007, 01:09:28 PM »
It looks like (from you avatar) that you are running a Canback top? If so you should be OK with your proposed setup although my rear springs did sag a bit even without the hardtop.

You certainly put a lot of thought into putting togeather a package from a variety of different suppliers. I would recommend Marlin's 4" trailflex kit if you want it all in one proven package. :twocents:
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eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #6 on: Nov 19, 2007, 02:41:12 PM »
Yea, I have not ruled it out yet.  Does anyone have a measurement from the center of the front axle hub to the edge of the fender (deduct body lift if you have one), using the Marlin 4" trail flex lift?  This way I can jack it up in the garage and get a feel for how much higher it would be from where I am now.  This would be a great help :help: 

Also, I thought it may be smart to use all of Marlins SAS stuff without the springs and have Alcan dial them in just right.  Unfortunately that does add exta cost.  I suspose if I didn't like the 4" Marlins someone would buy them off of me?

The weight is a 2,400lbs on the rear with 150lbs of gear and hardtop (less 60 lbs with Can-Back top).  The front weight is 2100 lbs (with 220lb driver).  So all total it gets heavy with fully loaded 4,500lbs!  Don't know how high the Marlins will hold it?

Can the springs be hung without the Marlin hanger up front with the Sky bomerange hangers?  If so how far forward would that place the axle?

I finally got my jpg image size under the posting limit so it works :clap2:

I know people like to see photos so here are a few:

Back in the day not far from stock 3" downey lift, BFG 33x9.5's on stock crome, Roger Brown Sliders have worked great for years!


Saving my frinds J**P Rubicon (with 40 miles on it) after he had to walk out of the woods and leave it there over nite. :phone:  Yeh he was wishing he had a winch the night before. :yikes:


Here's the rig running Confused trail at Paragon.  This trail opened just before the closure issues.  The front top corner of the passenger fender had a tree bark skuff (no dent) above the corner light after this one :shocking:


So give me a little help here now that you've got some east coast photo's!



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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #7 on: Nov 19, 2007, 03:19:12 PM »
Yea, I have not ruled it out yet.  Does anyone have a measurement from the center of the front axle hub to the edge of the fender (deduct body lift if you have one), using the Marlin 4" trail flex lift?  This way I can jack it up in the garage and get a feel for how much higher it would be from where I am now.  This would be a great help :help: 

29" from the center of the hub to the bottom edge of the fender (no bl :nonono:). ;)

Here is my 85 a couple of years ago when the 4" Marlin lift was first installed:

Added some weight in the rear and it sagged a bit:
« Last Edit: Nov 19, 2007, 03:37:15 PM by Shoyrtt »
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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #8 on: Nov 19, 2007, 03:36:33 PM »
I want to know how to get the front to sag...it is tooooo high w my marlin 4 inch springs and they don't seem to be settling.  Maybe I should just get bigger tires.
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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #9 on: Nov 19, 2007, 04:22:42 PM »
I'm looking to do something similar to my runner, so definitely keep us updated with what you go with and how it works out.  From what I've read, most people are fairly impressed with the OME set up, but the flex is not all that great.  I think that it's designed to be an all around replacement for the stock springs, but not necessarily for maximum flex.  Also curious if those are FJ80 wheels that you're running?  I like em. 

eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #10 on: Nov 19, 2007, 06:10:58 PM »
Those are FJ80 look-a-likes, as they are 15x8 vs. the real FJ80's are 16".  I think it keeps it looking Toyota family like.  I had a concern about the OME springs as well.  They may give the lift with shackles to add a little height but they do not add any length to the rear spring, and they do not allow me to move the axle forward without a spacer block, which would screw up the push pull steering setup forcing me to do cross over type steering, with less lift and flex than the Alcan's will.  As far as the Marlin 4", wow that is too high for me.  I like the look but don't know if I could get used to parking outside the garage!  Thanks for dimension though I wasn't able to get it when I called about the lift.  I guess I'm going for the sleeper look and hoping to keep to my CG nice and low.  I havn't yet come to grips with rolling mine so any thing to keep it up rite on the trail is good.  Its kind of fun sliding on rocks any way isn't it? :yesnod: 

Also, the rear bumper is an Old School "Stout Equipment" bumper  :bowdown: that weights almost 120 lbs, but will survive well after the runner is dead (helps with the CG also).  I modified the mounting bracket to fit the 4Runner frame and tail gate, as it was originally on an 87 pick up. 

Thanks for the pics of the Red Runner....it does look sweet. :beerchug:

eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #11 on: Nov 21, 2007, 09:43:05 AM »
I measured my rig from the front center axle to fender edge and was about 23.5" - 24" depending on side.  That would indicate 1) that I have almost no lift, and 2) that I would have to jack up the rig 5 inches to get where you are with the red yota.  I think 2.5" to 3" from where I am would be perfect for me anyway.  Still can't believe there isn't any more interest in this type of a setup?   :attention: I heard of some going for lower CG on there rock crawles and running 36's and 37's with little lift and doning the trimming thing, but I'm sure there setting up cross over type stearing and at least home made spings. 

Here's a picture dropping in a 33" hole.  I would like to have a little more flex to keep the body level.


eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #12 on: Dec 02, 2007, 06:56:11 PM »
Update: Got off the phone with All-Pro, I was asking about their 4" lift system.  If I ran my stock front hangers and stock lift shackles up front I should end of with about 4" of lift up front.  This is about my limit as far as height goes.  Does any one know if the Marlin 4" springs  :turtle3: are typically taller than All-Pro's?  Any one have a similar height measurement as above but with the All-Pro kit?

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #13 on: Dec 03, 2007, 07:20:28 PM »
Yea, I have not ruled it out yet.  Does anyone have a measurement from the center of the front axle hub to the edge of the fender (deduct body lift if you have one), using the Marlin 4" trail flex lift?  This way I can jack it up in the garage and get a feel for how much higher it would be from where I am now.  This would be a great help   

Also, I thought it may be smart to use all of Marlins SAS stuff without the springs and have Alcan dial them in just right.  Unfortunately that does add exta cost.  I suspose if I didn't like the 4" Marlins someone would buy them off of me?

The weight is a 2,400lbs on the rear with 150lbs of gear and hardtop (less 60 lbs with Can-Back top).  The front weight is 2100 lbs (with 220lb driver).  So all total it gets heavy with fully loaded 4,500lbs!  Don't know how high the Marlins will hold it?

This is bro-in-law 86
Complete marlin 4" sas trail flex kit with 4" shackles
It was really high until we got some trails on it.
wonderful kit no squeeks, rattles



This mine- 89 d44's front n rear
Alcan springs

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #14 on: Dec 03, 2007, 07:36:05 PM »
we put some 51" toy rears up front with the front bolt 1" forward and 2" down and a 7" shackle on my friends 85 I I think it sits lower than stock and flexs like crazy.  If you ran 5 leaf 48"rears up front with the stock hanger and a 5" shackle you would get no more than 3" of lift and a buttload of flex with a nice ride.  I would just put a longer shackle and the shocks like/\ in the back and you'd be good

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #15 on: Dec 03, 2007, 08:38:27 PM »
i am running rears up front.  ive got about 3inches of lift.  it is a set of 48s with cut down 51s.  they are almost completely flat at ride height.  I love my setup it is low and stable.  i also drive mine everywhere to trails.  highway driving isnt a problem.

i still have a little more travel too.


sitting flat



those are 36in Iroks that never rub.

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #16 on: Dec 04, 2007, 09:23:39 AM »
Nice ride 85
thats my next project mid 80's or early taco
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eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #17 on: Dec 04, 2007, 09:43:25 AM »
From what I see the black rig looks to have about 30" from axle center to fender, but can't tell if there is a 1" body lift of not.  From what I've read, it seems the Marlin or AP 4" springs a great, I just don't get how they call the springs 4" of lift.  If I ordered Alcan 4" lift I feel it would sit lower.  Do you think the alcans are better riding in any way?  As for the RUF rig, that's the kind of lift height I'm looking for, I would just run 33 -35's.  Did you cross over steer it with your setup or just run the push pull since the lift is low?  If you did, any interference with the frame at full flex?  Thanks for the posts... 

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #18 on: Dec 04, 2007, 09:56:01 AM »
Here is BigMike's on Marlin 4" springs




And here is mine with toyota rears up front and chevys, 3" fender trim, 3.25" lower than BigMike's


albo4runin

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #19 on: Dec 04, 2007, 10:24:33 AM »
From what I see the black rig looks to have about 30" from axle center to fender, but can't tell if there is a 1" body lift of not.  From what I've read, it seems the Marlin or AP 4" springs a great, I just don't get how they call the springs 4" of lift.  If I ordered Alcan 4" lift I feel it would sit lower.  Do you think the alcans are better riding in any way?  As for the RUF rig, that's the kind of lift height I'm looking for, I would just run 33 -35's.  Did you cross over steer it with your setup or just run the push pull since the lift is low?  If you did, any interference with the frame at full flex?  Thanks for the posts... 

The black has no body lift, the springs are not fully settled in yet in this pic. I'll measure that when I get over there next.
As far as the ride, the black one with marlin lift rides awesome! It took a while to get there, settled in.
 The alcans flex wonderfully, on the grey one, but I screwed up and did not put bump stops on, which has now plastisized the front springs. My pitman arm and drag link served as my driver side bump stop, so I need to get an arm with less rise for clearance issues, after I make the bump stops. This pic was taken right after the sas conv. Its sits alot lower now, plus winch/bumper weight. My steering box position has been moved forward about an inch and angled down somewhat, this was done to fit the d44 and was that way on the 93 taco that I got the running gear from.
All that to say if your in Grand Jct Co. Alcan can set their springs up for your app. If not I'm happy with the marlin kit.
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Matty

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #20 on: Dec 04, 2007, 11:36:13 AM »
As for the RUF rig, that's the kind of lift height I'm looking for, I would just run 33 -35's.  Did you cross over steer it with your setup or just run the push pull since the lift is low?  If you did, any interference with the frame at full flex?  Thanks for the posts... 

i did crossover just because i wanted the strength and easier turning with the front locker.  i didnt need to though.  I am also running a 6 leaf pack but i know some who run a 5 leaf pack and run 33s.  sits nice and low and flexes very good.  ill try to grab a pic of my steering it is very close, but there is no interference.  but as i said very close.

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #21 on: Dec 04, 2007, 12:14:26 PM »
I stand corrected!
The black one has the 5 1/2" not the 4". Sorry
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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #22 on: Dec 04, 2007, 01:58:35 PM »
I am running 63" chevys in the rear with no blocks, marlin 4" lift springs with the bottom 2 leaves removed and sitting with 37's. It sits nice is very drivable. Should be about 2.5-3" lift by my calculation. With the aftermarket springs up front I did move the front spring hanger forward and have so far only hammered the pinch weld in. The springs settle a bit once you hit a few trails. Oh, I also have an 8274 up front, duals, hardtop in the winter, 6 pt cage and full compliment of tools.

hope that helps!
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eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #23 on: Dec 04, 2007, 08:36:13 PM »
Albo4Runin thanks for the correction.  This stuff is like trying to measure a worm.  RCK SQRL, I like the option of pulling leaf's to lower it.  Don't know what that does long term to the springs?  All in all, if my rig did less DD and more crawlin I think I would try the RUF setup with the old springs kick'n around, but since I do use it daily, and do travel 6 hrs on the highway to trails in PA with my wife and daughter, wheel it good for 2 days, then drive it home, I think newer gear is more in order.  That said, with the custom Alcans at only 2.5" and a 1" boomerang sky shackle lift, I think that should work well at 3.5" of actual lift.  I know the Alcans will flex, ride height will be level, and they should ride smooth.  This is almost exacty the same as what you guys do'in the RUF setup are doing.  From the sounds of it many of you are on the same page of big flex and a little less lift.  If I find myself going to 35's (say when the new BFG come out in 15's next fall) I can add the front spring fixed hanger to move the axle an additional .75" forward, gain a 1/2" lift up front and add a slightly longer shackle to the rear.  There, its done....until the roll cage (internal or exo?).  I know this sounds costly and is not (was not in mine a few years ago either) in many wheelers budget, but this is a long term rig and my daily ride so I can spend a few grand on her.  :clap2:  

P.S. MiniSimp, are those the Bud Built rear 10" ramped spring hangers on you rig?  They look good.  Thats what I was leaning toward as well to help slide over the rocks.  I think Marlin should add those to his kit since he is now selling the Bud transfercase skid.  HINT..HINT... :turtle3: :wave:

I'd still like some numbers from the rigs out there showing how tall they are from center of axle to fender lip.  This will help many building their rigs.   :beerchug:

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #24 on: Dec 04, 2007, 09:12:25 PM »
P.S. MiniSimp, are those the Bud Built rear 10" ramped spring hangers on you rig?  They look good.  Thats what I was leaning toward as well to help slide over the rocks.  I think Marlin should add those to his kit since he is now selling the Bud transfercase skid.  HINT..HINT... :turtle3: :wave:

I'd still like some numbers from the rigs out there showing how tall they are from center of axle to fender lip.  This will help many building their rigs.   :beerchug:
Nope, those are home built, a little more low profile than the budbuilt ones, they are on the first page of my build in Rig Gallery if you want to check them out.

There is a thread found in the search button called The Official Rig Height Thread

albo4runin

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #25 on: Dec 04, 2007, 10:19:11 PM »

I'd still like some numbers from the rigs out there showing how tall they are from center of axle to fender lip.  This will help many building their rigs.   :beerchug:
[/quote]

29" center of hub to bottom of fenderwell, on the the black one
26 1/2" on the grey on, both on 35 mtr's.
black seldom rubs when flexed
grey one mangle's fender well.
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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #26 on: Dec 04, 2007, 10:52:24 PM »
i have high steer and am running some old rancho springs maybe 2 inches of lift and have no problem with my high steer rubbing though my flex sucks, and its on 33s. i wouldnt think you would have to worry about clearence anyways heres a pic



eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #27 on: Dec 05, 2007, 06:10:50 AM »
Thanks that is good to hear.  Truck looks good Hunterjes.  AlboRunner the 26.5 is what I was shooting for.   Perfect.  So what are the specs on the Gray 4Runner with the Alcan's?  Lift, shackle, pearch etc.  I think I'm about to order a 3" Alcan set.  How much did yours sag after wheeling, or did they settle to the height you speced out?  It looks higher in the picture you posted, any update pic's after breaking in?  With 33's I should be good with minimal fender mangling!     

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #28 on: Dec 05, 2007, 06:49:46 AM »
Eric-

mine is a DD as well and I had some of the same concerns. With 35's, moving the spring forward and high steer I was just able to rub on the inch weld, very stable, soft and it flexes pretty good as well. Alcans are an awsome option if you can afford them I have yet to hear anything negative about them. All in all it is up to you!
'85 EFI Runner
4.3 with 700R4- for sale
5.29 detroit F/R
Front 3 Link with air shocks
rear 4 Link
Custom Fuel cell
8274
Crawler #719, rear with 4.70 # 677,
Twin stick
Skys manufacturing T-case crossmember

6 point cage modified with harness bar, dash bar and PRP seats mounted to cage
2 feet chopped off the back

It seems it is never done........

in works for new body and exo, motor and trans swap...

eric hohlfelder [OP]

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Re: 85 4Runner low lift high flex set up question
« Reply #29 on: Dec 05, 2007, 02:38:26 PM »
Rock Squirl, I didn't get you height measurement.  Would you be kind enough to stretch the tape for me?  As I mentioned I am currently at only 24 - 24.5" center of axle to bottom of fender lip.  Based on what you said you should be around 26 - 27" by my estimates.  If that's the case maybe the Marlin's  :turtle3: could work for a little less $$.  Do you think the leaf remove in the rear would work out as well?  Though I could spec the 4" springs knowing they will sit lower with the weight and have them level with the lowered front.  What lenght shock do you run up front/rear.  I was planning to keep the rear upper mount as I just got the exhaust dialed in so it exits inside the bumper and is safe from rocks. 

 
 
 
 
 

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