Topic: W56B - opinion needed

[Plekto]

I have a 87 4Runner (manual, of course!) and the transmission is doing the following:

1:When I let off the gas in 4th, I can hear the thing spin up a little bit(bit of engine braking/torque being applied to something) - and it's fine - then it just pops out after a minute.   Clutch is fine, only about 15-20K on it.  I can get it into any other gear after that, but not back into 4th - like somethng's not moving at all or got stuck(syncros? gear stripped? throwout bearing?)  After I come to a stop, it's fine, though - I have 4th again.   If I'm accelerating hard, it doesn't pop out.  Only when there's no torque being applied/coasting along in 4th.

2:The more pressing problem, because I can easily live without 4th given the 500rpm difference between 4th and 5th, is that when I let off the gas in 1st and 2nd gear, it makes grinding noises.  Normally there would be a higher pitched whine as the thing engaged and I kept it in gear going down the hill(engine braking down a hill).  Now I have to put in neutral or it sounds like how your gears grind a bit going into reverse. - just obviously faster "Wherrrr(initial sound when I take my foot of the gas)  R RRr Rr Rrr rr RRR" - kind of a random vibrating sound - like something is loose).  Of course, I kind of know if I really force it , something will eat itself, so I've been driving the last few days either on the gas or in neutral(no coasting).

Obviously I need work on it.  My question is is this sort of problem something that's NOT the transmission itself(hydraulics, clutch, or other things?)?  It's a lot of money to replace the thing and I'd like to get an idea of what's wrong(ie - how terminal is it) before I drop $1000 into a new transmission.

[79coyotefrg]

pull the drain plug in the bottom of the tranny,  let me know how much metal comes out,

[Plekto [OP]]

okay - will do - how hard is it to fill up again?  It currently does work, though - so I can get to work and back.  I'm just worried about having a month downtime.(read - taking bus! Ack!) (I have a Haynes manual but it's woefully lacking in anything gearbox/transmission related other than a few crude drawings)

[79coyotefrg]

yea  go with the 85-140   it  will help  till you get one from marlin,  and since your in Cali  it  wont take but a day or so to ship

BUT  order the new one befor you pull that one,  they have a couple week lead  on them

[*ROKTOY*]

yea  go with the 85-140   it  will help  till you get one from marlin,  and since your in Cali  it  wont take but a day or so to ship

BUT  order the new one befor you pull that one,  they have a couple week lead  on them

Yea, 6 wk lead time from what I hear.

[Plekto [OP]]

Ug - hope it lasts that long...  My friend says that changing the gear oil might make it worse - don't know if I should believe him or not, though...

Edit - forgot - took it to a local mechanic - says bearings are going out, 1st and 2nd are worn, and syncros aren't working right(definite replacement candidate).   Thinks I can maybe get 2-3 weeks out of it before it blows up if I'm careful.

Good guy - though his supplier is quoting him $900+hard parts to rebuild mine, which is silly - I might as well get the MC.  He also was surprised - said that it should run closer to $600 if it's a stock setup.  You know -the places you see advertising in the local Recycler/papers that handle thousands of transmissions per month.  Someone's gouging a lot somewhere in the supply chain, apparently. (just goes to show what a good deal the MC is I guess)

[emsvitil]

Just rebuilt my W56.........

It was  popping out of 4th just like yours

Made terrible noises when decelerating.


The 4th gear problem is the input shaft bearing.

The terrible noises were that and the other bearings being worn out.......

If you're mechanically inclined, get the heavy duty rebuild kit from Marlin and do it yourself


As for the oil,   drive the truck a little to stir things up,  take the fill plug out and dip your finger in...

That small amount of oil will tell you how bad things are...........

[Plekto [OP]]

k - will do tomorrow morning.   How hard is the rebuild if I've never done this before?(mechanically inclined, just never done one before)  I've got lots of time and not a huge amount of money.

Oh - thanks - that sounds like my problem.  How long did it last before you did the work?

Btw, next project after this is the exhaust leak I can't find - whole other can of worms...

[emsvitil]

If you have time, I don't think it's too hard....

The factory manual is very useful, and you do need gear pullers (and a press is useful).

Just keep all the parts sorted so you don't lose track of where the go and take your time...


As for the exhaust,     my pesky leaks have been a warped exhaust manifold and cracks in the front exhaust pipe (where the 2 pipes merge to 1)

[Plekto [OP]]

I got an email from Steve.. We talked.     It's been sorted out.  A W56-B HD.  I won't know until I get the old one off if the clutch is toast or I need a new flywheel, but all the other parts they have.(about $150 in misc stuff)  I'd be tempted to rebuild it, but I just can't be without a vehicle for several weeks. 

I'd give him props/points if I could.    

Btw, ths site has the best collection of smileys ever. 

Heh.

[79coyotefrg]

gotta love that Steve

[87Fontana]

You can't go wrong with a MC W56HD transmission.  My old trans went out at 202,000.  Bad syncros, gears, etc.  I bought the W56HD from Marlin.  Marlin builds the best Toyota transmissions around!!  He uses better parts and heavy duty bearings.  Its worth the wait and will take you about 4-5 hours to install.

[Plekto [OP]]

I hope os.  Honestly, of the last 3-4 transmissions that I've replaced, all of them had bearing problems.(including a rebuilt that only lasted 18 months in an old Buick).  I really think there's a difference between Chinese steel and the good new stuff you get from Japan and the U.S.

[79coyotefrg]

I hope os.  Honestly, of the last 3-4 transmissions that I've replaced, all of them had bearing problems.(including a rebuilt that only lasted 18 months in an old Buick).  I really think there's a difference between Chinese steel and the good new stuff you get from Japan and the U.S.

and Marlin only uses  true Japanese bearings  in everything he builds  KOYO  or NGK

[Plekto [OP]]

Yeah, I gathered.  What I meant was that for me, it's all about the bearings, having seen four bearing failures in the last decade.(though this one also sounds like gears as well)  MC's HD stuff... looks like something I'd do myself. 

Their motto should be: "We hate fixing stuff twice".  My idea of customer support if I was running a company would include as little returns as possible by making stuff that doesn't break.  Planned obsolescence?  I'd never want to see you in my shop for the same thing again if I could help it

I'm very impressed.

Q: Why doesn't MC only offer the HD versions?  I can't imagine anyone not wanting the better bearings, after all.

[emsvitil]

Q: Why doesn't MC only offer the HD versions?  I can't imagine anyone not wanting the better bearings, after all.

When I picked up my HD rebuild kit at Marlins I asked that question and they said it was because the HD bearings make the transmission louder and some people don't want to hear it.........  (like you're going to hear it over the tire and exhaust noise)

[Plekto [OP]]

I see...
Them...
      

Us:


You know, there's a reason I got my M/Ts.  And the mods.  It's not a Mercedes, afterall...   

[jimbo74]

You know, there's a reason I got my M/Ts.  And the mods.  It's not a Mercedes, afterall...  

you understand that, but not everyone does....