Topic: BIG problems with a rear axle (Pics added)

[89toy]

OK, so a new problem.  I have an 89 that I recently took on a road trip.  It has 4" of lift with 35" toyo MT's.  On the highway (from about 45mph up) it has a horrible shake.  It shakes so bad that my voice is distorted when I am talking to someone.  I do not have a CV driveshaft in the rear (one of my problems I know); and when I look in the side mirrors at the tires, they seem to have a slight movement from side to side.  But it seems as though one tire will shake, go relatively straight, but then the other tire will start to shake from side to side (passenger side).  The axle is turned, but I think the pinion is way too high, it actually points above the spot that it should be (instead of pointing at the t-case, it actually points higher).  I also have an extreme amount of axle wrap when I shift hard (another thing that I am pointing to the axle about).  My first set of gears only lasted about 6,000 miles and now my "new" set of gears are toast again (after only about 5,000 miles).  I have chromoly axle shafts in the rear.  What could be causing such a drastic shake on the highway???  Would it be a better idea to buy a new rear housing and start over; and is it possible to put a stock housing back in without rotating the axle with the lift (if I get a cv driveshaft)?  Also, since the gears have fried on this past trip, there is a loud hum that comes from my driverside door (near the back)...so loud that I actually get  a headache.  It is also causing my t-cases to make a lot of noise.  OK, to refresh, can I put a stock housing back in, fix my gears, and get a cv??  Would this solve most of my problems?  Thanks,
Brendan

Also, the shaft is newly rebuilt (so I think the only problem is not having the cv), and I balanced my tires just before I went on the trip.

[ZUK]

Sounds like your main issue is a vibrating driveshaft. It might also be "out of phase". Post some clear pics showing the entire length of the DS and it will help.
The vibrations may have caused the pinion bearings to wear excessively causing the noise from the differential.

[89toy [OP]]

I will get a battery today to put in my camera, I will try and cover everything from the axle to the t-case...I will be putting in a spare 3rd so while I am at it I will take pics of the extended driveshaft and also of the gears (because I know they are completely gone).

[OOPS]

With U-joint-U-joint D-shaft the angle of the t-case flange and diff flange should be parallel.

With a CV at one end the diff flange should be point at the t-case flange.

If the material the d-shaft is not made from thick enough material a long d-shaft can get whip in it.

Here is a link on d-shafts and the proper way to set them up.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtml#Double-Cardan-Measurements

[Willy Mammoth]

Also spin the tires on a jack and see if they have a hop or the tread wiggles. You could have a bad tire.

A drive shaft vib will be all the time, a tire will be at its worse at about 45 mph.

edit,

I will get a battery today to put in my camera, I will try and cover everything from the axle to the t-case...I will be putting in a spare 3rd so while I am at it I will take pics of the extended driveshaft and also of the gears (because I know they are completely gone).

You can't shouldn't extend a shaft without replacing the whole tube and it must be true.

[89toy [OP]]

You can't shouldn't extend a shaft without replacing the whole tube and it must be true.

What I meant was that after I take off the shaft, I will get pics of it extended out.  The shaft is good, but I think only for a trail rig.  Thanks for the info, I will also check the tires to make sure they are in good condition.
 
Also, about the axle wrap, I was on the highway coming home yesterday...took it out of 5th, put it in 4th, raised the rpm's to about 3-4K and "popped" the clutch.  I could see (in the shadow of my truck) that the tires moved forward and went back to where they were before.  I can only assume that this would be the axle "wrapping" under the truck.  Could worn out springs cause this?  They are all pro 4" and only have about 10K miles on them.  I also have a "fast grabbing" clutch installed (more of a racing clutch than anything). 

[OOPS]

Check your shocks to make sure they are not worn out.

The D-shaft angle could also be part of it.

I ran A-P springs for years and never had a wrap problem until I put some shims in to correct my d-shaft angle after I went back to a two-piece D-shaft. Cut the springs perches off, got some new ones and got the angle right, no more wrap.

[89toy [OP]]

Check your shocks to make sure they are not worn out.

The D-shaft angle could also be part of it.

In theory the shocks are good, they only have about 10k miles on them.

[OOPS]

In theory the shocks are good, they only have about 10k miles on them.

Read the edited post above on how I fixed my wrap.

[89toy [OP]]

Ok, so I found very big problems when I pulled the 3rd  .  A buddy of mine set them up and forgot to do 1 of 3 things: set ring gear bolts to proper spec, place bolt retainers, or the d-shaft vibrates so much it caused them to loosen  .  3 of the bolts actually came out and the rest are extremely loose.  I have a perfect hexagon impression on the back of my housing (inside).  So, I am frustraited and so is my wallet.  While the 3rd is out, I am going to fix all the problems with my d-shaft and send the 3rd to ZUK to rebuild.  Hopefully this never happens again.  I will let ya'll know how it goes when I put the 3rd back in and when I fix the shaft (hopefully getting the correct shaft will also help with the axle wrap).  I will try and get pics up (I have to find out how to work my camera)...mainly because everyone HAS to see the imprint (actually kinda funny) and show my d-shaft angle.  Thanks for all the input!

[89toy [OP]]

what does everybody think about the angle?  If better pics are needed, let me know.  CV will be on within' the next 2 weeks or so. 

[ZUK]

It's high....but I would not expect that to cause such a severe vibration. Get the CV on and lower the pinion about 3 or 4 degrees.

[OOPS]

It's high....but I would not expect that to cause such a severe vibration. Get the CV on and lower the pinion about 3 or 4 degrees.

No but that diff sure would~!!!!!!! On ARB's you cannot use the retainer locks so you use a lot of lock-tite. Looks like someone forgot the Lock-Tite. New gears are in order.

[79toy20r]

I would also go get my tires balanced

[89toy [OP]]

what do ya'll think about 4.88 instead of the 5.29?  This is a daily driven rig and I would really like it to be semi quiet on the road...and possibly last a little longer.  What is the max speed I should go with a 5.29...and what is the max speed I should go with a 4.88?  I have 4.10's in the truck right now and it still has plenty of power in town (it actually feels better in town compared to the 5.29's).  My motor has plenty of power, so I think the 4.88's would still work well (just won't have 4-wheel until I can afford 4.88's in the front).

Also, anybody know if I can lower the pinion without re-welding the spring perch?  I was just thinking that 3-4 degrees wouldn't be much...

The guy before me used different bolts on the shafts.  3 were the regular d-shaft bolts that you can get from Marlin, the other one had the same diameter bolt shaft, but the head and nut were a lot larger (noticable difference in weight when sitting in my hand).  Would this cause a lot of the "off balance" since the gears turn so quickly?  I have since changed it out to a regular d-shaft bolt (when I pulled the 3rd)...but the front (attached to the t-case) still has one larger bolt compared to the rest (you can see it in the close up pic).

[trail mate]

you can get degree shims from superlift to lower your pinion angle, but their shims are for 6 degrees, dont know if you want to go that much  they just install between your springs and axle.

[89toy [OP]]

Yeah, 6 might be a little much.  I will see what else they have or if anyone else makes the shims...Thanks for the help  .

[79coyotefrg]

6 would probably be too much  but anything is better than being too high like it is now,   its a wonder  under stress you havent busted the joke off the pinion


oh  and that ring gear  is scrap iron now


and yes  the odd bolt  is probabbly your vibration

[fordh8r]

  Is that a U-bolt eliminator kit you got there?   If it is I might have concerns with using a shim in the springs since the two plates where the bolt heads and nuts contact won't be parallel anymore. A degree shim won't allow the hardware to sit flat which could mininmize the hardwares functional strength. 
  You may have to cut reweld to keep this order of things in regards to your hardware.  Just something to look for when you get into it. Good luck! 



   Oh, you asked about running 5.29's. Do it! remember with bigger tires the drive train spins slower and the gain is about back to stock (in relative drivetrain speeds). Also they're no noisier then what you're already used to when they're set up properly.  As far as how fast you can drive....well...the tires will probably give you issues before the drivetrain will...

that ring gear  is scrap iron now


and yes  the odd bolt  is probabbly your vibration

and what he said.   

[MiniSimp]

Buy the weld on shims from Roger Brown

[89toy [OP]]

everybody think that the weld on shims would work with my u-bolt eliminator kit (thanks for the link MiniSimp)?  Will it still be strong...and should I drill holes in the shims for the bolts to go through as well as welding it?  Daily driver...has to be safe at 70-80 mph.  I figure it will still sit flat (relatively) if I weld it to the perch under the spring  .  (edit)...also, would it be better if I just say screw it and got a u-bolt flip kit instead of what I have?

[7Jake]

Not sure about your brand/style of eliminator kit, but if it's not supported directly under the leaf pad, I'd weld something in or replace it.  I've had a pair of old All Pro eliminators (years ago, I think they've changed the style now) collapse and tear resulting in the pinion walking up the ring and pointing at the truck.  Caught it before anything broke and had to drive up cadilac hill from rubicon springs with a chain holding the pinion down. Make sure your higher pinion angle isn't due to the perches saging.

I've also had my ring bolts come out.  I pulled the 3rd on my old runner and found one bolt flopping around in the diff.  That's when I noticed a hex head shaped hole that had been welded up by the previous owner.  A quick phone call and I found that it wasn't the first time this bolt had come out.  Also, nearly every other bolt was loose and starting to back out.  I had the 3rds rebuilt by a local gear shop and they installed star lock washers as well as locktite. Drove it for another year or two without any problems.......Then it was stolen..... Hope the damn things fall out again.

[chevyLUVtoyota]

do u have the 2 u-joints aligned ?

[89toy [OP]]

Not sure about your brand/style of eliminator kit, but if it's not supported directly under the leaf pad, I'd weld something in or replace it.  I've had a pair of old All Pro eliminators (years ago, I think they've changed the style now) collapse and tear resulting in the pinion walking up the ring and pointing at the truck.  Caught it before anything broke and had to drive up cadilac hill from rubicon springs with a chain holding the pinion down. Make sure your higher pinion angle isn't due to the perches saging.

Then it was stolen..... Hope the damn things fall out again.

  I hope that they fell out too!! 

I have the new style (might still be crappy though) http://allprooffroad.com/images/stories/suspension/spring_stack_l.jpg ...they are the ones that you can see at the all-pro website.  I will check the perches tonight to make sure they are still good.  Anybody know if a U-bolt flip kit will work?  It seems like it would to me, but I just wanna see others opinions before I drop the cash.

do u have the 2 u-joints aligned ?

  What do you mean by aligned?  Are you asking if they are bent?  If so, they are still in good shape (remarkably).

[DTB]

  What do you mean by aligned?  Are you asking if they are bent?  If so, they are still in good shape (remarkably).

The u-joints should be in-phase like this >>>

[89toy [OP]]

nope, not aligned then.  The diff side is close, but the t-case side is way off from that.  Hopefully I will get my diff to the right degree; and hopefully the cv will fix the problem in the front (t-case).  You happen to have 360 measurements on where they should be?

[chevyLUVtoyota]

The u-joints should be in-phase like this >>>

if you dont have it in phase it will do crazy things.... hope that helped

[DTB]

nope, not aligned then.  The diff side is close, but the t-case side is way off from that.  Hopefully I will get my diff to the right degree; and hopefully the cv will fix the problem in the front (t-case).  You happen to have 360 measurements on where they should be?

not sure if you are understanding.....the ujoints should basically be straight to each other (the yokes) hope this helps

[89toy [OP]]

Yeah, I think I get it.  If I drop the pinion a little the yokes will be straight to each other...but there is no way to get the them straight at the t-case  .  The only thing that would help would be the cv.  Hopefully I am not a retard...but you never know   

[OOPS]

Maybe this will help!!!!!