Time to get informed (please chime in)!!

[Blingn]

I was at the meeting and I recorded the meeting and I also got all the information that they were handing out.  I was going to put up what I feal the meeting was about and what I got out of it. So that maybe some others might be able to understand a little better what might be happening.  FS is going to =forest service.  I am going to try to stay as possitive as I can because I believe that we all can help what FS is trying to do ,with your emails letters faxes and attendance.

[MiniSimp]

Perfect, I'm going to the meeting tomorrow night.

[Duffil]

post up what you have...it might help reshape some questions for the next meeting.

[Blingn]

The plan is called alt D :

Provide a balance between public wheeled motor vehicle access and recreational opportunities while protecting forest resources.  Designed to take into account past patterns of use on the forest, allowing for higher density of routes in popular areas.

Allow use on 844.3 miles of roads and 217.0 miles of trails for public wheeled motor vehicles.

Public wheeled motor vehicle cross-country travel prohibited.

Limited non-significant Forest Plan amendments for specific route segments.

Seasonal closure on designated system trails and native surface roads from Dec. 1 through April 30.

Wheeled motor vehicle over-the-snow travel allowed on all desigbnated routes with 24 inches of snow or more and no ground contact. Additional prohibitions on wheeled over-the-snow travel on specific route segments.

Wheeled motor vehicles limited to one vehicle length from the edge of the route surface for parking and dispersed camping.

[Blingn]

The problems that the group and I see with this from the meeting last night is that the trail should not have a seasonal closure.  I ,we also dont like the one vehicle length from the edge of the route surface for parking and dispersed camping.  There are more!! I am at work though one sec.

[Blingn]

Another point that we had was that the parts of the trails that they said were going to change were very hard to read on the map and were not very detailed.  Also the so called research that they had about the soil material data they could not prove. 

[BigMike]

I agree about the seasonal closure. Part of wheeling is the experience, and what better way to understand that then camping at freezing temperatures in the winter?

So for those of us going to the Pleasant Hill meeting, what can you recommend? Should I prepare some questions myself and print them out? Do I need some banners? Are we able to submit letters to a FS representative at the meeting?

Thanks. You know, I am against picketing but I don't know how to show it.

[BigMike]

Also, for instance, I heard that the Old Sluice is being closed and the only way to drive through Rubicon would be down the slabs and down the slabs ONLY.

If this is true, then, what I am wondering is, if I wanted to prepare a letter to talk about this, do small bypasses have route designations? How do I define this sort of bypass in a complaint/request?

[*FFC*]

I agree about the seasonal closure. Part of wheeling is the experience, and what better way to understand that then camping at freezing temperatures in the winter?

So for those of us going to the Pleasant Hill meeting, what can you recommend? Should I prepare some questions myself and print them out? Do I need some banners? Are we able to submit letters to a FS representative at the meeting?

Thanks. You know, I am against picketing but I don't know how to show it.

As for questions, I got a LOT But I'll keep it real... one of them being wtf are we paying them for and paying to maintain our trails if they're just gonna close them on us ...

[*FFC*]

This is what I said in another thread.. I guess this is the place for it



Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I see it:

We as tax payers, pay these people to sit on their   and not answer our questions regarding our trails we also pay to keep open and maintain, so we're paying them to work against us and not answer our many questions regarding this issue that has many many peoples lives in an uproar .... is this true? Aren't they working for the county/state?


I don't know how to word it so that it makes a lot of sense, it sounds better when I'm saying it out loud rather than typing it... but it seems to me that we're paying them to work against us...  

[BigMike]

FFC, just be sure to keep it real

[*FFC*]

FFC, just be sure to keep it real

You got it



The approach I would expect you to take Mike, would be something in the line of businesses.  Those trails are the core of a LOT of businesses out there... What are they to do?

But then again... you're anything but predictable

[*FFC*]

I know it's not all about money.  But I think it's a valid point...

What about (and I know this was addressed last night as well) wheeling permits?  Americans pay $30-$65 for a fishing permit for a year, why can't we just pay $50-$75 a year for a wheeling permit? The money can go towards maintaining the trails and at least that way the people who really want to wheel, can do it right...

I know, ya'll ain't the people we gotta convince... just that's all...

[Blingn]

I hear what you are saying FFC and I just want to say that with the way the meeting was held last night is that you have one question and then the FS has a couple minutes to dodge sorry sorry answer the question.  I am as fired up as anyone ecspecially after last night but you really have to control yourselves in the meeting and it seems like it worked better. 

[Blingn]

Some points that WE should key on and then make them answer is this:  What are they the FS going to do about OPENING trails? As long as I have been wheelin it is alot easier to close a trail than to get one open.  WE need to concentrate on what FS is going to do.  DO NOT let them give you the answer that it cost money for volunteer help.  That is hogwash. 

[Blingn]

We still have a chance fellow wheelers send letters here and it has to read just like this they are particular:  Ramiro Villalvazo, Forest Supervisor
                            attn: ENF Travel Management DEIS
                            Eldorado National Forest
                            100 Forni Road
                            Placerville, Ca 95667

[Blingn]

They want you to be specific in what questions you are asking a question or comment like "KEEP OUR TRAILS OPEN" will not get looked at. 

[*FFC*]

We still have a chance fellow wheelers send letters here and it has to read just like this they are particular:  Ramiro Villalvazo, Forest Supervisor
                            attn: ENF Travel Management DEIS
                            Eldorado National Forest
                            100 Forni Road
                            Placerville, Ca 95667

They are keeping the letter/comments open until the beginning of September I believe... email/call/mail/fax/whatever but send them in...

[Blingn]

You can also respond here via email in plain text (. txt), rich text (.rft), or Word (doc) :

[email protected]

in the subject line make sure to write ENF TRAVEL MANAGEMENT DEIS ,

Thank you Matt H.

[Blingn]

Hotline/voicemail: 530-295-5666 OK this is what I believe a paper trail is alot more easy to track and acount for than voicemail.

Here is there pdf doc we had to look at dial up beware

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/documents/route/deis/route_deis_fullversion_no_maps.pdf

and there web site is :

www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route

[Blingn]

Also, for instance, I heard that the Old Sluice is being closed and the only way to drive through Rubicon would be down the slabs and down the slabs ONLY.

If this is true, then, what I am wondering is, if I wanted to prepare a letter to talk about this, do small bypasses have route designations? How do I define this sort of bypass in a complaint/request?

This is one of the points that the wheeler groups were stating.  That the maps that the forest service provided is not accurate enough.  There is from what they showed last night was like this trail is called I 9 or I 15 or something like that.  BigMike I am going to do some more research on this right now. 

I am just trying to help Keep us informed for tomarrow.  I am thinking that it will be bassed on different trails being that it is in P.H but this is what we delt with.  I really hope that this might help. 

[Blingn]

I agree about the seasonal closure. Part of wheeling is the experience, and what better way to understand that then camping at freezing temperatures in the winter?

So for those of us going to the Pleasant Hill meeting, what can you recommend? Should I prepare some questions myself and print them out? Do I need some banners? Are we able to submit letters to a FS representative at the meeting?

Thanks. You know, I am against picketing but I don't know how to show it.

BigMike these are very great questions, the only way that I can answer them is from the point of view that I had last night. 

The seasonal close should I believe be regulated.  There are alot of winters where we dont get alot of snow all at the same time of the year.  And for those winters I and alot of fellow whellers and bike quad riders dont want the riding season closed down when there is no snow or rain to hurt the soil.  There should be an inforcement but it should be regulated not shut down.  I dont quit think pickiting is in need because there is just about 5 FS rangers and in the meeting that I was in and the previous one the FS  supervisor didnt show up.  I do and really like the idea of bringing letters. 

BigMike I would state you are from MARLINCRAWLER and state that you have more than one question from your Co. standpoint or something like that, and I am sure that the rules they TRY to inforce they will bend them I saw it happen last night for cert individuals.

[Blingn]

Shirts for sure, or hats.  But I dont think as of the meeting last night there would be a place for banners.  I hope this helps BigMike and I am trying as hard as I can to stay possitive and have alot of the facts as straight as possible.  Thanks Matt H.

[Blingn]

SEE IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE

We might have some good news hopefully. I called John Doolittle's office before the meeting to see where he stands. I just received a vm from his assistant who was also at the Folsom meeting. Needless to say he was not too pleased about the answers that we were getting from the FS. I'm going to talk with him tomorrow but he sounded pretty confident that they could at least get the public comment period extended thru a court challenge. At least it might be a start.
     

[cougarfreak]

I think one thing we all need to know is how do we "be specific" about routes we want on the map?  Are they looking for trail name, road # (if there is one designated to every route), GPS coordinates...  Has anyone asked this question yet?  I'll ask tonite in Concord and post here if it gets answered.  This would be key to having any chance of getting trails put back on the map.

Has anyone seperated out and looked closely at what trails are in danger and which are on the proposed map?  That might be helpful as well.

What is the FS lacking to deem it necessary to close 1800 miles of trail?  If it's manpower, I'm sure they could get a bunch of help from local clubs if we thought we might be able to keep routes open by helping the FS.  Maybe we could develop some kind of Route Steward program for the clubs to be a part of to keep routes open.

Instead of asking questions we know they won't be able to answer, maybe we should ask questions regarding how we can get the best probability of having routes put back on the map.  Offer suggestions like the above and show that we are willing to work for our routes to remain open.

[BigMike]

Good posts guys, BLINGN XJ, thanks for your time and research.

As for the Pleasant Hill meeting tonight, FFC, blane525, BIRDDOG, and myself will be at the Pleasant Hill Chipotle around 5:45-ish:

Chipotle
60 Crescent Drive
Pleasant Hill, CA 94523

It is only a couple minuets from the Pleasant Hill Recreation Center:

[BigMike]

I've downloaded Chapter 3 and it is 340 pages!!

What are some key points to read about here?

[*FFC*]

I've downloaded Chapter 3 and it is 340 pages!!

What are some key points to read about here?

No wonder why their answer to just about everything was "Refer to Chapter 3"

[Blingn]

from what i have heard is it talks about the soil samples that they have gathered.  It might also have the lawsuit in it.  But please do not quote me on that last part. It is just crazy that there is that much information that they expect us to read in 45 days and understand, and the FS has had it for around 1 1/2 years I believe it has been around that long.  Again alot of my information was from what I got from the last meeting.  I hope this helped

[BigMike]

Here is the link for Chapter 3. Download and read please:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/documents/route/deis/route_deis_ch3.pdf