Author Topic: 85 runner pissing me off (Read 4623 times)

LAGEN WAGON · « **on:** Jan 05, 2007, 01:03:31 PM »

Well heres the deal. I bought a 85 runner off my in-law and it just had a new head and valves put in it. The thing passed smog with flying colors six months ago. When we went to have it smogged a month ago it was a no go. It failed for high HC because it's missing in the 2000 rpm range. The compression checked out great and everything checked out good on the leak down test. I have also replaced cap, rotor, plugs, wires and fuel filter. I also checked timing, fuel pressure and vacuum line and hoses...all good. The AFM is also within limits?

? :dunno:I changed and replaced the TPS and adjusted it. After completing all of this it still misses around the 1800-2000 rpm range. I'm stumped. I have done tons of research on the tech forums and have been unsuccessful finding anything new to try. I even took it to a couple shops to see if the could come up with any results.....NOPE, in-law ended up paying more money for no results

.I also had the cat checked and the EGR valve checked all were good according to the techs. I decided to pull the plugs to see what they might tell me and found them to be a bit on the chalky white side. The only thing that I have not replaced is the damn injectors. I'm starting to think that possibly the injector seals are leaking and causing the engine to lean fire. The engine runs like a raped Ape.......for a 4 banger. I just cant get it to pass smog again. Also no engine fault code either???

I need suggestions or inspiring new ideas. This is what the runner has on it.
Downey header and full downy exhaust system.
lockers ...gears blah blah and all the normal trail armor and crawler goodies.
Help I need this thing fixed for some snow thrashing this winter.

madhunt · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 02:24:19 PM »

WHAT KIND OF PLUG ARE YOU RUNNING AND ARE YOU GOING FOR SMOG WITH THE ENGINE HOT OR COLD, DID YOU CHANGE YOU OIL AND FILTERS, WHAT IS YOU VALVE ADJUSTMENT LIKE LOOSE OR TIGHT???

LAGEN WAGON · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 02:47:13 PM »

The oil has been changed and the vehicle has had a full tune up. The valves have been checked and re -checked since the the new head. I have had two different Toy techs check the valves and compresson after me doing the initial tune up. They concured that everything was spot on. I also had them do a leak down test which came back perfect. The plugs are brand new NGK Iridiums...yes the vehicle was completely warmed up when smogged.... The funny thing is that the smog tech has tested it numerous times for a period of days and said it tested better when the engine was cold. The only thing it is failing for is HC in the 2300 rpm range. The max is 180 and its spitting out 380! Less than six months ago when it passed it spit out an 81 for HC.

boggerunner · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 03:33:35 PM »

move out of california, problem solved

madhunt · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 03:50:34 PM »

Quote from: LAGEN WAGON on Jan 05, 2007, 02:47:13 PM

The oil has been changed and the vehicle has had a full tune up. The valves have been checked and re -checked since the the new head. I have had two different Toy techs check the valves and compresson after me doing the initial tune up. They concured that everything was spot on. I also had them do a leak down test which came back perfect. The plugs are brand new NGK Iridiums...yes the vehicle was completely warmed up when smogged.... The funny thing is that the smog tech has tested it numerous times for a period of days and said it tested better when the engine was cold. The only thing it is failing for is HC in the 2300 rpm range. The max is 180 and its spitting out 380! Less than six months ago when it passed it spit out an 81 for HC.

TAKE OUT THOSE FANCY IRIDUMS AND PUT IN NGK 1233 ALWAYS RUN A REGULAR PLUG FOR SMOG, PLATNUMS AND OTHERS HIGH DOLLOR PLUGS WILL NOT PASS SMOG AS A REGULER PLUG WILL, PLATNUMS AND IRIDUMS ARE MADE FOR LONG DISTANCE DRIVING. AND THEY FUAL ALOT EASIER THAN A NORMAL ONE WILL. ALSO MAKE SURE YOU CAT CONVERTOR IS WORKING ITS SOPOSE TO BE HOTTER IN BAK OF IT THAN THE FRONT.

LAGEN WAGON · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 04:15:09 PM »

The cat has been checked and is all good. I figured it would be it's new....but I know new does not allways mean good. I run those Iridiums in my 85 ex cab and have never had a problem passing smog with it. It has the same exhaust set up as the runner. Hell I'm willing try anything at this point though. I'm still thinking injector seal or just injectors though. Keep the inputs coming it's appreciated.
!

Quote from: boggerunner on Jan 05, 2007, 03:33:35 PM

move out of california, problem solved

If I moved out of California it would not fix the engine miss problem but it would fix the smog issue. However I still want the engine to operate correctly. California is crappy in allot of ways but it does have some badass wheeling spots. I'll ride it out

toymech · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 05:26:01 PM »

sounds like maybe leaking injector seals or a carboned up intake plenum dude. mine did that but cleaned everything up and slapped in lc engineering injectors

Tallchevy · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 05:34:03 PM »

Don't use Platnum or Iridiums. The older engines didn't have them. Put a regular plug in it. The only time you should use those is if the engine came new from the factory with them. The guys at the part stores always try to up sell them even when you don't need them. Don't waste your money.

myyota · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 07:50:14 PM »

I have an 85 truck thats carbed and im having the same problem with a miss just off idle, i know your truck is efi, buts thats about the only difference. ive tryed everything i can think of to fix the problem, and i havn`t been able to figure it out yet. does anybody have any ideas ?.

toymech · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 07:59:15 PM »

I think on those old carbs theres a diaphram that holds fuel for acceleration. They have a tenancy of rotting out in the carb and leaking fuel causing a rich misfire. Most of the old carbed toyotas had this problem and i think the diaphram if im not mistaken is easy to get to but has very small parts to it. Check for a vacuum leak too. Mike

trevinotrek · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 05, 2007, 08:36:32 PM »

with engine running take a can of starting fluid and lightly fog it around the injectors ,if the idle picks up your seals are dry also do it around the plenum for vacuum lakes and air tube leak

LAGEN WAGON · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 07:56:51 AM »

Quote from: trevinotrek on Jan 05, 2007, 08:36:32 PM

with engine running take a can of starting fluid and lightly fog it around the injectors ,if the idle picks up your seals are dry also do it around the plenum for vacuum lakes and air tube leak

I'll give that try post up my findings. Thanks

RABIDYOTA · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 09:34:36 AM »

x2 on the starting fluid. but also spry from you'r air box to trotle body. any leaks will mess with you'r air meter and tps. good luk

myyota · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 06, 2007, 06:33:45 PM »

The carb on my truck was rebuilt a few months ago, it had the hesitation before the rebuild, and still has it after the rebuild.

LAGEN WAGON · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 15, 2007, 09:03:29 PM »

OK I have replaced the injectors with some new LC's. The injector seals came out in pieces and I replace everything with new seals and o-rings. The damn thing runs up hills like it has 5.29's with 33's for wheels.

But the thing still misses at 2000 rpms. I fogged the whole engine and vacuum lines for leaks with starter fluid found one where the EGR connect the intake manifold.....replaced the gasket it fixed the leak problem miss still their at 2000 rpm. I did notice it does not miss a all when the engine is still cold and not at operating temp??

I also checked the wires to the injectors and made sure of no broken wires in the wire flume. Everthing checked out good. Need some serious Toyota Guru help on this one. Toyota techs have just scratched their heads at me....but that does not help my situation......more ideas and help please....!!!!!!!!!

Blaze · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 15, 2007, 11:16:32 PM »

This might sound funny But check your ait filter, I will garantee it was not changed in tune up. I had the same problem quite a few years back and that's what it ended up being. spent $$$$$ triing to figue this out.

LAGEN WAGON · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 07:17:12 AM »

I wish it was that simple but it was one of the first things I changed along with the cap,roter,plugs and wires.

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 07:53:34 AM »

Um, did you replace the pcv valve?

LAGEN WAGON · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 09:34:18 AM »

yup, rep

Quote from: Rocksurfer on Jan 17, 2007, 07:53:34 AM

Um, did you replace the pcv valve?

Yup, replaced it at the same time I replaced the 02 sensor.

More ideas please!!!

E-9 · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 09:47:56 AM »

Two questions; Has this vehicle been used off road very much and does the miss get worse when you turn it up an incline?

LAGEN WAGON · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 09:59:12 AM »

When my brother inlaw owned it he never wheeled it unless I forced him to? :smack:The thing only misses once it gets to operating temp. I imagine it would on steep incline as well being it does not take long to warm up the engine.

E-9 · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 10:13:15 AM »

Just for grins, disconnect the vacuum line from the fuel cannister to the intake manifold and block it off with tape or a screw.

LAGEN WAGON · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 11:15:54 AM »

I'm willing to try anything at this point....let ya know what happens.

fordh8r · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 07:22:25 PM »

Sounds like you may be experincing EGR problems since you say it only happens with the engine warm.

EGR does not come on with a cold engine or at full throttle.

Try disconnecting and plugging the vac line to the EGR and see what happens. It is possible for the EGR to be too sensitive and either open too early or too much.

If the problem stops happening with the EGR disconnected then you're half way there.

Now you need to find what's causing it to be so sensitive.

I have seen where the vac modulator starts to go bad and causes problems like this since it controls the EGR's ability to open. The modulator is the round thing next to the EGR and also has vac hoses that connect to the EGR as well.

Something worth looking at in short time. I also agree about the spark plug issue since your vehicle was not designed for those types of plugs you should run regular plugs. Just because they're more money doesn't necessarily mean they're better. I had platinums in my chevy once and they absolutely sucked

and it ran like crap

Anyway, hope this helps and good luck with fixing this problem!

RRMike · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 20, 2007, 12:45:13 PM »

I'd start poking around with the ignition system if the EGR doesn't prove to be the culprit. Check the pickup coil air gap inside the dist with a feeler guage. Then check the resistance. Then check primary and secondary resistance on the coil.

It doesn't sound like an ignition problem simply because the truck seems to clear up once past your critical RPM range but once you've tried everything else........

If you have a multimeter (if not go to sears with $20 and get one now) and a haynes manual at least if not a FSM (if you don't have any kind of manual slap yourself) it takes about 10 mins to check a lot of these things out without spending any money buying parts.

BCD · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 20, 2007, 02:06:47 PM »

When mine wouldn't pass on HC's I retarded the timing as far back as possible. It barely got me to the test facility, but passed with flying colors! before pulling out of the bay I ran the timing back to where I keep it in front of the test guy, it worked great.
-Brian

Mega Baby Huey · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 03:56:44 PM »

LUCKILY I LIVE IN A SMALL TOWN...THE DAY THEY FORCE YOU TO TAKE SMOG TESTS IS THE DAY THEY RUN ME OUT OF TOWN!

ajfriz · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:13:57 PM »

Your problem lies in your front axle. Send it to me and I will give you a great running ifs out of an 86. That will fix the problem

BigMike · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:24:24 PM »

Quote from: ajfriz on Jan 22, 2007, 10:13:57 PM

Your problem lies in your front axle. Send it to me and I will give you a great running ifs out of an 86. That will fix the problem

baaaawhahahahaha

E-9 · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 23, 2007, 03:52:03 AM »

One of the suggestions must have fixed the problem, the pleas for help have stopped.

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