Profields

[84runner]

Any1 know anything about these new profields? They are talking about heat treatment and cryogenic freezing. It sounds like the same treatment for the longfields. Does anyone know anything about these or know of any reviews?

[mr4x42u]

I have not herd much on the profields yet.The new longs look the same and are bust'n chromo axles reliably with out failure. :yipes:

[BigMike]

You know I think I would wait a couple of months and see how the first buyers' units are holding up. When we were still making the 4th gen Marfields, we cryogenically froze about a dozen of them and they all broke just as easily as the normal ones. We tried freezing just the internals and they still broke. Cryo freezing something that is merely either supporting a huge load or letting go (failure) is a joke in my opinion. Now for something more delicate that is designed to last a long time, freezing it can ensure a proper long life (like a piston). But if I wanted to freeze my sledge hammer in hope that the face will stay flat and unscratched - it's not going to happen. The hammers designed to take huge blows that "freezing to ensure proper molecular structuring" is not going to help at all.

We have the new Longfields in stock and I can't understand why they were changed? The older units that used the welded on ring worked just fine and were very successful. I think if it's #1 on the market, why change it? Now there is buyer uncertainty. People will have to wait to see how both the new Longfields and the Profields will do. I think that was a dumb move by Longfields and a great/perfect time to release the Profields. Consumer confusion will send some buyers to the Profields.

You know it's really funny. Marlin started all this "name"field of course with Marfield, and now you've got:
Newfield
Longfield
Smurfield
Profield

AHHHHH!!!!! WHEN WILL IT STOP!!!! hehehehe

[freds40]

I'm curious to hear how the profields do since they are supposedly built by Jack at CTM. I'd like to see a write up of these in conjuction with the new 300M inners and see what breaks first, my guess is diff or gears  

[84runner]

marlin should get royalties for name sake

[toyotaboy]

You know it's really funny. Marlin started all this "name"field of course with Marfield, and now you've got:
Newfield
Longfield
Smurfield
Profield

AHHHHH!!!!! WHEN WILL IT STOP!!!! hehehehe

yea since he desined the "birf" field

[toyotaboy]

oh and now they have the: Robfields ..... guess everyone likes to copy the stock toyota name of "name" then field like the original birfield

[CruzrDave]

The new LongFields are as good as the old ones and will not interfer with turning( if you jacked with the steer stops). They are also easyer for Bobby( if nothing else I would buy from him just because he's a nice guy ) make which means a cheaper price. As for the Profields I'm  . The others are probly as good as the Crapfields that Rocky made for me . I wasted 2 sets of birfields by having him Tig the "Mar-ring"( that was used on the Mar-field- found a few sitting around) to the back side of the joint. I never installed them( he called them Roc-fields ) but I think they would be stronger then a stock. I'll see how my elimenator kit holds up. I have 2 sets of Crap-fields for sell-cheap.

[mr4x42u]

I don't think the marfeilds were that great compared to the new or old longfeilds..Marlin builds and designs great products but the marfeild was stronger then stock but still nothing to write home about..There must have been somthing about the temper of the metal used when the marfeilds were frozen or treated.Maybe bad process during treatment or just the metal  :dunno:The new longs and profeild look exactly the same..I would not wast my time with any of the other birfeilds when you can get a product like bobbys and have it be reliable,strong and keeping cost in line..Props!

[84runner]

So how would you guys rate the longfields compared to stock birs, dana 44s eliminator kits and what ever else is out there. just to kind of make a size up sheet

[mr4x42u]

As of now I would have to go with the new long,,profeild,old long.Why even use a eliminator kit?I thik its better off to use a birf set up..Of the hundreds or toys on the trail the chance some one has a a extra birf is better then haveing somthing broken in a rig with  eliminator kit..Besides the elim kits have not been proven to be better then what longs or the profeild can provide and half the cost..

[98runner chevota]

A buddy of mine is has been running the eliminator kit for about 8 months as a prototype unit and has worked very well. Now the longfields and new profields these are two units that have not proven them selfs on the trail enough yet as far as i know. The profields are supposed to be heat treated and cryoed but that is to be seen.

[RUFF]

Now the longfields and new profields these are two units that have not proven them selfs on the trail enough yet as far as i know.

How much more proving do you want from Longfields? These things are currently in Hundreds of rigs across the world and are standing up to plenty of abuse. We are currently running a set on a Cruiser down under that is running a Quad Cam 200kw Lexus V8 and Auto with a Mini Tcase and 4.7gearset on 42TSLs with no problems so far and this guy fully gets it. We also have a pair of Hilux's on 38s and dual cases with no failures. One also has a 4.4ltr V8.

In my opinion the Longs just cant be beat as far as value for money.

The Profields may also be a good product but only time will tell.

[SpaceGhost]

I am running the newest Longs along with some early treated inners. The inners outlasted 4 sets of the "welded ring" Longs. Prior to this combo, I have broken 8 short side inners (one was a treated sghort) and 4 long sides, and so many welded ring longs I lost count.

Cruiser 2F, sm420, Toybox  cruiser housing, 35" Krawlers in comps and practicing all on Lower 2 type terrain. I think the biggest improvement comes from loosing the ring which just got beat up without steering stops!  

[mookie7971]

does anyone know when the "new" longfields came out?  i put a set of them in my cruiser about 2 months ago, and am now wondering what version i've got??

[toyotaboy]

well had a bad experience with bobby on the phone tonight with him being disshonest, extremely rude and vulgar but found out it only cost $68 to make a brand new lonfield(not treated core) and they are identical to all pros.

[BigMike]

I have 2 sets of Crap-fields for sell-cheap.

That sounds like a deal-good. How much are you willing to sell-for?

[Brandon]

wtf is chryo freezing anyway, I mean I know what quenching is, and have done a bit of metallurgy but the chryo thing just sounds like a big word for quenching? In other words heat it up so in basic terms the structure unravels then cool it quick so it is all twisted up and "stronger" (in certain aspects, it is also more brittle, etc).

I am no expert and don't claim to be but I am an engineer so I had to tinker with some of this stuff.

[Brandon]

well had a bad experience with bobby on the phone tonight with him being disshonest, extremely rude and vulgar but found out it only cost $68 to make a brand new lonfield(not treated core) and they are identical to all pros.

if he is selling them for $12 profit he's gonna go broke, what it costs to make and to sell are two different things..

[WHITE_TRASH]

From what I understand cyoing is putting metal in a bath of liquid nitrogen.  I think it brings them to like -3000 degrees? for a set period of time to align the structure of the metal somewhat similar to quenching but more controllable.

[84runner]

  :headscratch:Sure  

[mr4x42u]

does anyone know when the "new" longfields came out?  i put a set of them in my cruiser about 2 months ago, and am now wondering what version i've got??

Here is a pic of the treated stock birf and what his new one looks like.Looks just like a profeild..I think they came out a month or two ago..Treated stocker on the right.

[crawler#976]

Back to the Profield's-

I know Zags, one of the beta testers for the All Pro product. He put his reveiw on the Pirate Board @ http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198752&highlight=birfield

He's a straight up guy, and wheels the best of the best hard core trails, (Asylum, Matrix, Twisted, Bender Alley, etc. etc.) so his recommendation is enough to it to get me to buy some Profield's. They should be shipping in mid January..........

later

[crawler#976]

Brandon,

This was written by one of my Engineering Mentors, Dr H.E.Trucks. He was a brilliant engineer- multiple PHD's is Physics, Mathamatics, and Engineering. He was one of the few engineers who understood Einstien's Theory's, and was able to work on them from an engineering stand point vs. a physics pie in the sky idealism. This article is geared towards die castings, but it applies to other metal structures too.

Deep Cryogenic Treatment of Castings, Tools, and Components

Improving Die Casting Productivity by Increasing Die Life
By Dr. H. E. Trucks, PE
Cryogenics International, Scottsdale, Arizona

In today's highly competitive world, finding ways and means to reduce the cost of a product is never ending. In the various production methods of manufacturing a part, the cost can be reduced by improving the life of tools used by the various processes used for production.

Cost reduction for die castings can be achieved by good casting design, reduction of costly specifications that are not needed for the product, and selection of the proper alloys that are functional for the end use of the product. Die castings offer closer dimensional tolerances than any production casting process producing comparable results. However, as in any other casting design, tight tolerances should be specified only for dimensions which so require.

Cost Analysis Recommended
The design engineer should make a cost analysis to determine if it is more economical to leave machining stock on the critical areas in order to improve die life and reduce die cost. If the analysis shows that there will be a cost reduction by machining the critical areas, then this is the approach to take. However, the designer also must take into consideration that all aluminum castings (including die castings) have built-in stresses due to shrinkage of the molten metal after it cools in the die. Some of these stresses in some areas can be reduced by good casting design. The proper casting alloy also is important in stress reduction. However, if there is no surface machining, these stresses have little or no effect on the function of the casting.

Die castings that have to be machined for closer tolerances and flatness will most likely distort on these surfaces, which in turn adversely affects these critical areas. Distortion starts when the outer layer is removed by machining. The outer layer locks in the stresses, and-when removed-leaves the machined surface distorted.

Stress Relief Through Cryogenics
What can be done to relieve these stresses before machining? Through advances in cryogenics, it has been discovered, researched, and proven that when these castings are treated in a cryogenic chamber at temperatures of 88°K (-300°F) at a controlled time/temperature cycle, all internal stresses are relieved, thanks to the alignment of the molecular structure that had been distorted during the casting process. When these cryogenically treated castings are machined, there is no distortion on the machined surface; any distortion which may occur is caused by improper machining, dull cutting tools, too slow speeds/and feeds for the aluminum alloy, or insufficient material removed by the first cut. The cryogenic treatment is not only for aluminum and its alloys but for all other die casting metals with the exception of the zinc alloys. The zinc alloys are no longer ductile at temperatures lower than -30°F. This cryogenic process also can be used to good advantage for die casting dies and the cutting tools used to produce the dies. In recent years, improvements have been made in the production of hot work tool steels and high speed tool steels that are used to cut the die cavity. Since producing hot work tool steels is very expensive, it is vital that the tool steel be such that a long and uniform tool life can be expected.

What's Behind the Benefits of Cryogenics?
Cryogenics is an exciting and important frontier that already has led to major discoveries...and holds much future promise. In the case of steel and its alloys, cryogenic treatment removes the built-in kinetic energy of atoms, which is the energy of motion. There is a normal attraction between atoms that makes them want to get together. But their energy of motion keeps them apart unless that energy is removed by low temperature cooling. After heat treatment of the dies, the final treatment at temperatures of 88°K (-300°F) transforms soft austenite into hard martensite. This transformation improves die surface wear and heat resistance; more parts can be produced before costly rework is required. This reduces the scrap rate of the casting, thus improving the production rate before rework of the tooling is required.

[84runner]

  Cool

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

You know I think I would wait a couple of months and see how the first buyers' units are holding up. When we were still making the 4th gen Marfields, we cryogenically froze about a dozen of them and they all broke just as easily as the normal ones. We tried freezing just the internals and they still broke. Cryo freezing something that is merely either supporting a huge load or letting go (failure) is a joke in my opinion. Now for something more delicate that is designed to last a long time, freezing it can ensure a proper long life (like a piston). But if I wanted to freeze my sledge hammer in hope that the face will stay flat and unscratched - it's not going to happen. The hammers designed to take huge blows that "freezing to ensure proper molecular structuring" is not going to help at all.

We have the new Longfields in stock and I can't understand why they were changed? The older units that used the welded on ring worked just fine and were very successful. I think if it's #1 on the market, why change it? Now there is buyer uncertainty. People will have to wait to see how both the new Longfields and the Profields will do. I think that was a dumb move by Longfields and a great/perfect time to release the Profields. Consumer confusion will send some buyers to the Profields.

You know it's really funny. Marlin started all this "name"field of course with Marfield, and now you've got:
Newfield
Longfield
Smurfield
Profield

AHHHHH!!!!! WHEN WILL IT STOP!!!! hehehehe

were you guys making them softer or harder? I am like 98% sure that longfields are softer then stockers, I am also pretty sure that you were the one that told me this. dont see how making them harder would be stronger because I have never seen a broken birf that was ripped, they crack and explode. So if you make them softer with out being too soft then you have a stronger unit. Who ever said that heat treating is when they heat it up and cool it real slow is wrong, the heat whatever it is they want stronger up and cool it real slow which gives  the particles more time to get lined up better because when you heat solids up you energize the particles and they get out of order which makes the solid brittle, this is the same reason you dont want to poor water on something you just welded if it needs to be as strong as posible. And they say I got banned from PBB for not contributing enough tech

[84runner]

Maybe your contrubutes weren't vulgar enough for them