Why rears up front?

[YOguyDa]

Besides the fact that they flex amazingly...I was just wondering why the stock length front springs arent made into custom packs? Is the 2" of extra spring the foundation of its greatness(rears up front)?

[lowgeared]

Cheap lift and moves your axle a few inches forward to help keep the tire out of the fender under compression.  Note the offset pin.

[MiniSimp]

The spring pin is 2" further forward which moves your axle 2" forward giving more clearance for larger tires.
And yes, they flex amazing!

[Ramrod]

and a stock front pack is usally bent backwards and way too soft

[YOguyDa]

So the center pin is 2" forward, the springs themself arent 2" longer? I know the whole swap makes sense, its cheap and has great results, I just dont have crossover steering, 2 pairs of rear springs, a welder, money, or a longer front driveshaft. That will change in the future .

Also, if you didnt need the extra 2" to clear larger tires, and you used lets say a main leaf from a  lift spring with more arch(stock center pin), you could ultimately achieve the same results using stock rear leaves for the rest of the pack?

[eightyfive]

So the center pin is 2" forward, the springs themself arent 2" longer? I know the whole swap makes sense, its cheap and has great results, I just dont have crossover steering, 2 pairs of rear springs, a welder, money, or a longer front driveshaft. That will change in the future .

Also, if you didnt need the extra 2" to clear larger tires, and you used lets say a main leaf from a  lift spring with more arch(stock center pin), you could ultimately achieve the same results using stock rear leaves for the rest of the pack?

x2
good question, i was wondering the same thing. i want to use a main lift spring and slap some rears under it....i wonder if it will flex

[yotaboy79]

how much lift are you looking to get, when my truck was fairly stock i took the stock toy front springs and and replaced the bottom two with cut down leafs from a rear pack and got ruffly 1 1/2-2 in of lift and it rode so much better im shure you could probably get 2 1/2-3 in if you ad the right amount of leafs just ad a leaf then take it out for a test drive to let them settle in and then see if you want to add more the key is using a more arched leaf that helps hold the rest of the pack up the longer the leaf the more of an impact its going to have 
i hope this helps
kyle

[Techtafab]

but why would you not want the front end
2'' to the front ??
better aproach !!
longer W/B
its not for the tires to the cab (hammer time)

[YOguyDa]

Oh, i'd love to have my rears up front!....But i dont have the resources at the moment. So, that is why i asked what i asked....Make sense?

[uglyota]

Hey working with leaf springs is intimidating but conceptually easy (though it can be a long process to dial everything in, and this is why a lot of people just buy aftermarket).
I understand that you don't want longer springs or to move your axle because you then have issues with steering and front driveshaft, possible caster problems, etc. so you can get a lot of gain by building new leaf packs.  What I do is take all the packs you have and take them apart.  Spread the clamps, remove pins and lay the packs out so you are looking at each leaf individually.  The main idea is that more, thinner leaves flex better, and your springs will force more droop if you start with leaves that have more arch, even if they sit flat under the truck's weight.  Thin leaves with a lot of arch can be found under small 2wd trucks with sprungunder rear axles, like mazdas or toys.  The more leaves you have to work with the better.  Pick out 4 or 5 leaves that look good, line the pin holes up (do not try and drill new holes), and cut the ends off the leaves so each spring is 2" or so shorter than the leaf above it (a chop saw is essential for this).  Taper the cut ends so they don't file away at the leaf above it and put the pack together and put it in, and see what you think.  Don't forget that it may take a few weeks of driving (or a wheeling trip) for your pack to settle to its final state.  Add or remove leaves as necessary.
If you're OCD, once you get a pack you like you may want to pull them back apart and clean them up and paint them, using ez-slide or similar graphite impregnated agricultural paint between leaves, and may even want to drill holes near the ends of the springs and get some teflon sliders from Al-can to make them even more slippery
Oh yeah I recently built a pack with stock rear mains and a few xj rear springs in it and I like it a lot.
Roger Brown's page has some pretty good info on building leaf packs.

[whiteman]

Oh, i'd love to have my rears up front!....But i dont have the resources at the moment. So, that is why i asked what i asked....Make sense?

I see this as a great opportunity for you to show us why or why not to upgrade the stock springs for more lift/flex.

If no one can answer your question "why not to use stock springs", then no one must really no.  I think if you got a few 2.5 spring packs that had decent arc to them you could cut them down and add them to you front pack, in fact for a budget i think you have a good idea. 

Will they lift your truck as high as rears up front?  They could, but it will be hard to get a short spring to flex as much as a longer spring while still maintaining the same ride hight.  If you don't have what it takes to convert to rears up front, I would suggest going through with your idea, rather than buying a lift from the leading mall cruiser lift companies  IE:  Skyjacker, Superlift, Rancho, Tough Country...ect...

In short... Do It

[Ramrod]

I don't know if it was already said but a wagoneer main leaf is the same length and all as a rear main but with a centered pin so you can run with the stock steering and get good flex but the stock steering will really limit it and probably break.  Oh and the stock rears are longer than the stock fronts

[YOguyDa]

Im getting some good info..... I've read through a lot of spring swap/custom pack topics and learned a lot, but its nothing like doing it yourself.

Currently i have a set of 5" NWOR springs, which are crap im sure everybody knows, and my stock front springs. The NWOR's are a 4 leaf pack and their downfall is that the leaf's are THICK. The stock fronts are typical....Flat. I'd like to get a set of rears to help make a pack, but i dont know if i can wait long enough to get them, before trying out a pack with what i got.

I was planning on starting with the heavily arched NWOR main and all the other leaf's being from stock toyota springs....But i dont know if the NWOR main is TOO thick?

[yotaboy79]

only one way to find out

[YOguyDa]

Once it dries up a bit, I'll dig into it.

[eightyfive]

im getting rancho 3" lift springs, stock rear springs, and one 2" rear downey and one 3" rear downey spring all for $50 bucks....i'll be mixing and matching too...

i also dont have the resources to go high steer right this moment. can't wait until the weekend...

[YOguyDa]

Right on, let me know how it goes. I might end up messing with mine this weekend also.

[GrenadedToy]

my toy rears dont flex amazingly....  

[YOguyDa]

You probably need to mess around with the pack, like most guys have. Unless of course, they're still on the rear? lol

[whiteman]

With my rears up front and my drop hanger I got about 5-6" of lift, with a 29" tire I can fully stuff it and it will rub on the inner fender well...  I thought that was pretty good flex .

[YOguyDa]

Sounds good to me .

[IronClad]

because toyota rears rock?..





you gotta build them right and specificly for your truck.. the whole formulas people try to use is a load of hooey!.  each truck is different..  id run a properly built set of toyota rears over any spring out there.

[whiteman]

because toyota rears rock?..





you gotta build them right and specificly for your truck.. the whole formulas people try to use is a load of hooey!. each truck is different.. id run a properly built set of toyota rears over any spring out there.

Very true, your springs need to be dialed for your rig, and your driving style. 

Ironclad, that is awesome, I definitely need to get some Johnny joints for my springs.  I bet I could get 3-5 more inches of droop with the joints.

[IronClad]

i dont run johnny joints at all   my bushings just deflect that much lol   being fullwidth helps but not all that much  (being 14 inches wider has its advantages elsewhere )  i just build my springs right..  they are soft enough for crawling but i can also go jump my truck  if i want to   not like a huuuggeee jump.. but  enough to get all 4 off the ground a good bit.

if you dont want to mess with your steering  just run 3rd gen rears up front (  the centerpin is only 1" difference insted of 2") and get a adjustable drop draglink  easy peasy.. be sure to get a torque rod lift bracket   because without that J arms become fair game.  i run the 3rd gen rears up front.. and you can see the kind of flex i get..   that back tire is roughly 5 and  a 1/2 feet off the ground and  i could have gone much more before i bottomed out my shock.

[eightyfive]

if i do a 3" lift...do i need that torque arm lift bracket? and if i do, where do i get those?

sorry for the hijack
jeff

[IronClad]

you dont NEED it  but it does help and will bring the angle of it back to stock..  and im not sure who makes it.. maybe call your local les schwab or someone that installs lifts and they may be  able to look it up for you   or you can make your own

[whiteman]

i dont run johnny joints at all my bushings just deflect that much lol being fullwidth helps but not all that much (being 14 inches wider has its advantages elsewhere ) i just build my springs right.. they are soft enough for crawling but i can also go jump my truck if i want to not like a huuuggeee jump.. but enough to get all 4 off the ground a good bit.

if you dont want to mess with your steering just run 3rd gen rears up front ( the centerpin is only 1" difference insted of 2") and get a adjustable drop draglink easy peasy.. be sure to get a torque rod lift bracket because without that J arms become fair game. i run the 3rd gen rears up front.. and you can see the kind of flex i get.. that back tire is roughly 5 and a 1/2 feet off the ground and i could have gone much more before i bottomed out my shock.

OMG!    That is serious bushing flex!
How many leafs you run?

[IronClad]

9 leafs lol

[whiteman]

And thats just one front spring? 
I have five right now.

I will be tuning my springs once it is running.
I think you are right Ironclad, a perfect spring pack cannot be bought for everyone.  For the few of us who need custom aplications, it must be built, not bought

[IronClad]

yeah 9 leafs per pack.. i could actually add 1 more leaf to stiffen it up just a hair because its just a weeeee bit to soft for rompin in the snow..  either that or the rearend is to stiff.. i havent figured it out just yet..


but yeah  i dont really believe in the springs most suppliers sell  because every truck is different..  different weights in bumpers, shackle lengths, tire/wheel combos everything !  i mean yea they are good for the majority of people  but if you want the best preformance for your truck.. gotta build them or have someone build them for you.