Author Topic: gears (Read 6153 times)

brokentoy · « **on:** Oct 03, 2005, 07:40:48 PM »

i've regeared my truck with 4:88 gears and 35 in tires. having problem with the crawling ability of truck it seem to have problem with even small rock piles . should i have gone to 5:29 gears. have efi 4banger with a 5 speed. had truck checked out by mech. said it is running fine

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #1 on:** Oct 03, 2005, 07:42:37 PM »

Order up a Mco7 and a set of 23 spline 4.7's and NEVER worry about not being low enough again.

mitchell · « **Reply #2 on:** Oct 03, 2005, 07:43:55 PM »

5.29s are for 35 to 38 inch tires 4.88s are for 32 to 34 inch tires

brokentoy · « **Reply #3 on:** Oct 03, 2005, 07:49:56 PM »

whats the mco7, looking into doing dual tcases will that help

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #4 on:** Oct 03, 2005, 07:51:43 PM »

Mco7 is the part number for a crawler adapter from Marlin

And uhhh yea, its THE single biggest improvement that can be made to aid in the crawl ratio.

Just do it, you'll thank me later.

guywithuglyyota · « **Reply #5 on:** Oct 03, 2005, 08:26:23 PM »

BrokenToy, Use the search function on the BBS, and look around the Tech Section on the Main Marlin Crawler Board. Read Read Read!!!

Hyena · « **Reply #6 on:** Oct 03, 2005, 08:38:41 PM »

I think 4.88's fit 35's better then 5.29's. But that is just my 2 cents worth. Go with at least dual cases. You will go twice as slow. That with a 4.7 gearset will go even slower. You will be set.

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #7 on:** Oct 07, 2005, 07:45:05 PM »

not to jack the thread but what will 5.29's as opposed to 4.88's on the freeway? being my crawler is also a DD highway is also a concern to me as i am looking into doing gears as well. im running 35's on a 22R/5spd manual

FIREBALL · « **Reply #8 on:** Oct 07, 2005, 09:57:07 PM »

I could still do 70-75 with 5.29's and 35's. That was about it though.

Definetly go dual case!!!! You'll love it and you'll crawl over anything and everything and you won't have to touch your brakes going down hill.

and I agree.....single best mod you can do.

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #9 on:** Oct 08, 2005, 01:19:35 AM »

Quote from: FIREBALL on Oct 07, 2005, 09:57:07 PM

I could still do 70-75 with 5.29's and 35's. That was about it though.

Definetly go dual case!!!! You'll love it and you'll crawl over anything and everything and you won't have to touch your brakes going down hill.

and I agree.....single best mod you can do.

what if i did a 4.7:1 reduction on itself? this is as i said my DD and its not a 50/50 truck. its more like a 80% DD 20 % trail toy. although i still like to have the cajones when it counts. id love to have a double transfer but i just think it may be out of my league to try something like that.

i also forgot to mention this is also my tow vehicle for when me and my buddies head out to the dunes. thats why i am concerned about highway compatability. what kinda rpm's are you spinning at around 70-75?

right now most i can do is about either 3000 rpm's in 4th, or 2400 in 5th. but it feels like a dog pulling them small hills.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #10 on:** Oct 08, 2005, 07:04:15 AM »

squirrel, what kind of gears do you have now?? if your running 70 at 3000 you need deeper gears, 70 should be around 34-3600 for the best pull you might look into a midrange to higher end cam, you wont loose any torque but will gain ponies at highway speeds to hold and or accelerate from 70mph

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #11 on:** Oct 08, 2005, 07:04:44 AM »

if your pulling a trailer stay out of 5th

bluetoy84 · « **Reply #12 on:** Oct 08, 2005, 07:43:17 AM »

If your more concerned about having power on the highway , especially if you pull a trailer you need to go to 5.29's. I hear people say they have 5.29's and they can only run 70mph :bull crap: , well it's because their motor does not have enough power to go any faster NOT because they are over-revving the engine. I can run 65mph in 3rd gear without hitting the redline.

Here's a good way to tell if you need a lower gear, if you can run faster (top speed) in 4th gear than you can in 5th it's too high.
Toyota engines are designed to cruise above 3000 rpm's. You'll have more power and get better gas mileage turning a few more R's than you will if your lugging the moter trying to keep it up to speed. I can easily run about 85 with 5.29's and 35" BFG m/t's , but it runs out of power way before it redline's the motor. I had 4.88's and 33's on my 83' with a highly modified 22R and it would run over 100mph.

Everyone says to just go with dual cases and I agree that the dual case is the best thing you can do for OFF-road , but it won't help you a bit in your situation.

This will alway's be a heated discussion and everyone has their own opinion so the best thing you can do is find someone who has 5.29's , drive their truck and see for yourself. $Beer Chug\'n$

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #13 on:** Oct 08, 2005, 11:28:10 AM »

right now the truck is bone stock with 4.10's and the motor, (other then the exhaust header and system) is bone stock as well. its got about 5K on the new motor. i know its over geared at the moment as it sits. heres another thing though, im kind conservitive when it comes to highway driving and dont plant my foot in it to move. im sure if i mashed the throttle it'd do 80 no problem.

i think coyote has a poit though in the cam... ive been also looking into squeezing a few more ponies and some torque out of it so i belive the comp cam (52 S i think??) would be a more then moderate increase in power. ive heard a few things on em and seems like they are the highest gain for power mid range, and dont hurt the low end. i have never used 5th when pulling a trailer wich is pretty much (OD) in the tranny. i know using a toyota p/u with relatively stock gears and 35's isnt the best choice but, i work with what i have.

the concern i have between 4.88's and 5.29's is that i dont wanna top myself out in the freeway doing 65 at 3000 rpm's with the 5.29's. i know that once the moror has a less gear load on it it will spin bit more happy correctly geared. id like it to where 5th is closest to 3000 rpm's running at 70 wich i belive is where a stock truck ran in 5th. i do belive the 5.29's will give me more acceleration and power though i also need the economy.

i do however agree with everyone that dual cases would be the BEST modification to utilize off road. i would hope to do this someday in the very near future once i recover finances around here

for right now, im trying to make this truck look,drive, and feel like new. its almost there so as i go along im trying to sort through the best options as i come across these situations. BLUETOY you do have a point though, i need to go find someone with 5.29's installed and take a ride to see what it does.

far most, thanks for all your help guys, you dooods rock!

hawaii500_1999 · « **Reply #14 on:** Oct 10, 2005, 10:09:10 PM »

i suggest running the 5:29's from what i've read.

if it is a trail only rig then running dual cases with the gears you have would work.

if you are driving this truck daily and towing with it definatley run the 5:29's

runing too high of gears not only causes the problem of too high gearing for crawling it also makes your trans. gear ratio too wide. so you'll be screaming the motor in 2nd and then shift to third and it boggs.

this is also hard on your trans. and motor. the lower gearing wil shorten the transmission ratio. so then you won't be hunting for a second and a half gear.

another thing, is that with the 5:29 gears, the pinion gear is real tiny. so they don't last as long as the 4:88's.

it's kind of a choose you poison choice. but from what you have said it sounds like the 5:29's would be the best road for you.

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #15 on:** Oct 11, 2005, 10:25:07 AM »

yea, sounds like ill be doing 5.29's. tho what time period are you talking about the lower gears not lasting as long? does this mean it'll only last me 200,000 miles instead of 300,000 miles? or how well known are they for going out? like i said... my truck runs from san diego to yuma almost every winter at least once a moth hauling either my bike, or my bike and a trailer with 2 other bikes in it, to and from work each day, then wheel it any other time i have a chance.

so wear and tear is a concern but am willing to do the best option for the truck.

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #16 on:** Oct 11, 2005, 09:30:37 PM »

ive been looking around and ive also seen a 4.7 lower reduction output for the stock t-case for my truck, would that be a big aid in a crawl as well? id see it as a easy modification without having to tear deep into my drivetrain and installing dual cases or crawler box. anyone ever do this?? im just curious as to how invloved it is and what diffrence it will make to a part time wheeler like myself.

hawaii500_1999 · « **Reply #17 on:** Oct 12, 2005, 05:33:17 PM »

it will make a huge difference. i ran 4:1 in my old truck and it was way lower than stock.

the install was pretty easy for me. the transfer cases on yotas are nice and simple. although i think with the 4.7:1's you may need to grind the case out a little bit to clear the gears. also youneed to grind one of the shifter shafts. but that's not bad. it took me a weekend to do mine.

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #18 on:** Oct 12, 2005, 07:46:01 PM »

hmm..... is there a gear set that wouldnt require me to do that much alterations to the case itself? ive seen theres lots of gears to chose from but dont know of all that are available. i just remember finding downey made one that i had seen in a catolog.

Loosekannon · « **Reply #19 on:** Oct 12, 2005, 09:34:28 PM »

Quote from: SQUIRREL MONSTER on Oct 07, 2005, 07:45:05 PM

not to jack the thread but what will 5.29's as opposed to 4.88's on the freeway? being my crawler is also a DD highway is also a concern to me as i am looking into doing gears as well. im running 35's on a 22R/5spd manual

I run 5.29's and 35's on the street and on the freeway I can still do 80mph. I also have 4.7 gears in my t-case and it crawls great. Went to Johson Valley last weekend and it did great. I run 38's on the trails also. Forgot to mention it is also my daily driver right now, about 70 miles a day in it. Gas milage isn't to bad.

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #20 on:** Oct 12, 2005, 10:21:20 PM »

really? you have the exact set up i want then! how involved was it to do your 4.7's? i know anything i do to my truck at this point can only help. running 35's, 5 inches of lift and 4.10's makes it a dog on the freeway. 5th gear is nearly obsolete unless its down hill with no head wind. gears are really spread appart and overall the gearing sucks.

do you run a locker/spool/welded rear end?

what rpms' are you at in 5th doing 70?

do you like your coffee black??? ................. oh sorry for so many questions, haha!

musclesliver · « **Reply #21 on:** Oct 13, 2005, 08:08:25 PM »

if you are concerned about the dual cases find two t-cases from a junk yard or someone on the board and then put it together while you leave your truck alone then you can install the dual cases

11 Bravo · « **Reply #22 on:** Oct 13, 2005, 08:54:38 PM »

Quote from: SQUIRREL MONSTER on Oct 08, 2005, 01:19:35 AM

i also forgot to mention this is also my tow vehicle for when me and my buddies head out to the dunes. thats why i am concerned about highway compatability. what kinda rpm's are you spinning at around 70-75?

right now most i can do is about either 3000 rpm's in 4th, or 2400 in 5th. but it feels like a dog pulling them small hills.

Go to this page and you can play around with gear ratios and tire sizes and it will tell you the RPM you will get.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/multirpmcalc.html

As another thought for you to get by on the cheap for a while, maybe you should pick up another set of wheels and tires for your highway driving. Running a set of 31's would probably work out pretty well for you on the highway until you have the cash to change your gears. Might look kind of funny with a 5 inch lift and guppy tires, but it is worth a thought.

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #23 on:** Oct 13, 2005, 08:59:15 PM »

Quote from: 11 Bravo on Oct 13, 2005, 08:54:38 PM

Go to this page and you can play around with gear ratios and tire sizes and it will tell you the RPM you will get.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/multirpmcalc.html

As another thought for you to get by on the cheap for a while, maybe you should pick up another set of wheels and tires for your highway driving. Running a set of 31's would probably work out pretty well for you on the highway until you have the cash to change your gears. Might look kind of funny with a 5 inch lift and guppy tires, but it is worth a thought.

haha

i have thought of it tho i would like the lower gearing. ive also thought about looking for junk yard cases. im putting thought into it quite a bit. although im also looking around the boards to see if i can find a set of 5.29 equipped thirds so i can just swap out. i usually see em on here once in a while. some even come with lockers in em so id figure it couldnt hurt to search.

Loosekannon · « **Reply #24 on:** Oct 13, 2005, 09:21:46 PM »

Quote from: SQUIRREL MONSTER on Oct 12, 2005, 10:21:20 PM

really? you have the exact set up i want then! how involved was it to do your 4.7's? i know anything i do to my truck at this point can only help. running 35's, 5 inches of lift and 4.10's makes it a dog on the freeway. 5th gear is nearly obsolete unless its down hill with no head wind. gears are really spread appart and overall the gearing sucks.

do you run a locker/spool/welded rear end?

what rpms' are you at in 5th doing 70?

do you like your coffee black??? ................. oh sorry for so many questions, haha!

I will have to look tommorow to tell you the RPM's at 70, have a detriot in the rear. The 4.7's are not to bad to put in, still going to add a dana300 behind that next year, just want the twin stick. Dual cases is lower range, but that is also a new crossmember and drive shaft work. I love it for now, but it is a never ending project

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #25 on:** Oct 14, 2005, 05:01:23 AM »

yea, id definately like to further modify my truck but for now, it works for me and i work for it. its a giva and take relationship as i give it money for mods, but it also takes me to work

so its very critical i keep it happy without much down time. untill i get another means of backup transportation, it gonna have to be happy with i can do over a certain amout of time. i also agree that things like this are neverending of tinkering, and making things better

what type of detroit do you have in there?

so for the aimed intensions, gears (3rds) are in the works as well as possibly a lower gear reduction for the t-case. anyone make an install post on this? i know marlin shows pictures of its crawler boxes and such but i dont see install documentation of it.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #26 on:** Oct 14, 2005, 07:05:50 AM »

install instructions are available from Marlin.com if you arent comfortable with machinging your case go with the 4.0 gears

you still have to take you tcase completely apart, but the 4.0/4.7 might be the best idea

SQUIRREL MONSTER · « **Reply #27 on:** Oct 14, 2005, 10:02:53 AM »

Quote from: 79Coyotefrg on Oct 14, 2005, 07:05:50 AM

install instructions are available from Marlin.com if you arent comfortable with machinging your case go with the 4.0 gears

you still have to take you tcase completely apart, but the 4.0/4.7 might be the best idea

yea, id be a bit more easy using a 4.0 and keeping the case in tact. i guess i could always re-do a t-case from a salvage yard and swap.

dizzydevil · « **Reply #28 on:** Oct 14, 2005, 10:44:21 AM »

the 4.7 gears are nice but are more tech involved than the dual cases. but w/dual cases you have to do drive shaft work. Loose cannon has a very good rig and can drive daily without a prob.
5.29 gearing w/a 4.7 case will give you about the same crawl raito as dual cases w/ stock gears ( 95 to 1 w/ a 4.7 case / 108 to 1 w/ dual cases) the diff is pretty small. for the money I would go w/ 4.7 kit its not to hard to install and no driveshaft mods to do.With the 5.29 4.7 t-case you can do great on the trail but still drive on the road at 70 at about 2800 rpm.

Loosekannon · « **Reply #29 on:** Oct 14, 2005, 05:41:03 PM »

Quote from: dizzydevil on Oct 14, 2005, 10:44:21 AM

the 4.7 gears are nice but are more tech involved than the dual cases. but w/dual cases you have to do drive shaft work. Loose cannon has a very good rig and can drive daily without a prob.
5.29 gearing w/a 4.7 case will give you about the same crawl raito as dual cases w/ stock gears ( 95 to 1 w/ a 4.7 case / 108 to 1 w/ dual cases) the diff is pretty small. for the money I would go w/ 4.7 kit its not to hard to install and no driveshaft mods to do.With the 5.29 4.7 t-case you can do great on the trail but still drive on the road at 70 at about 2800 rpm.

What up there man? Haven't seen you here in a while $Beer Chug\'n$

I drive it every day for now with out problems, but it does look pretty ugly with all the scratches and new body lines the rocks have giving it.

Well watched the tach today, in 4th at 70 it is about 3000, in 5th it drops to 2500. When I get to 80 it is back up to 3000.

brokentoy [OP]

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