Topic: early 22r head on late 22r block

[seanc]

Ok I am trying to build a “frankstien” engine for a cheap 83 build up for a customer with parts that I have lying around. I have an 86+ block and an 83 head. Now the deck height for the early style block 81-84 is 9.120” and the late block 85-95 is 8.930”. The early head is 3.920” and the late head is 3.130”. Now the only problem is the timing chain is extremely hard to get on and when it is on it is way too tight, the tensioner is bottomed out the entire time. So I need to loose .98” this number is almost an inch. Which I think is impossible to loose any ideas? Or do I just need to rip the 83 block out have it bored for the pistons and swap everything over? Is there any difference in the bearings or anything or can I just swap everything over? Thanks

[kyle_22r]

if you want to run an early 22R head on a late block, cut the deck of the block by 3mm or so(whatever the deck height difference between early and late is).  it then becomes essentially a new early 22R block, just run the early 22R timing cover and you'll be set.

[Duffil]

I didn't realize that the mounting holes and such would line up...

[seanc [OP]]

customer came over and i presented him the problem and he said f-it so we are tearing the 83 motor out of his truck and building it with DOA racing equipment... can you say stroker! yah yah. now i need to get my engine hoist back, friend has been borrowing it for 2 months  can't wait to finish this truck.

[79coyotefrg]

customer came over and i presented him the problem and he said f-it so we are tearing the 83 motor out of his truck and building it with DOA racing equipment... can you say stroker! yah yah. now i need to get my engine hoist back, friend has been borrowing it for 2 months can't wait to finish this truck.

have a 20R head fitted with 22R valves and seats and hold on

[seanc [OP]]

no thanks i don't believe in that kind of "hybrid" engine, if it were realable enough don't you think toyota engineers would have done that. before you modify anything you have to ask yourself why it didn't come from the factory that way... then weigh the pros and cons, realibilty, legal, how it drives, off road, on road, how it looks.

[kyle_22r]

uh, the reason toyota didn't do that is because the 22R head is more emissions-friendly.  the 20R head will let you rev higher but won't really do much for torque.

that's like saying, if toyota designed the pickup with push pull steering, you wouldn't believe in crossover

[BUBBA]

before you modify anything you have to ask yourself why it didn't come from the factory that way... then weigh the pros and cons, realibilty, legal, how it drives, off road, on road, how it looks.

yep wonder the same thing when i see all those sas'd rigs,the factory does what it's regulated to do by the government and by what mainstream america thinks it want's

[79coyotefrg]

no thanks i don't believe in that kind of "hybrid" engine, if it were realable enough don't you think toyota engineers would have done that. before you modify anything you have to ask yourself why it didn't come from the factory that way... then weigh the pros and cons, realibilty, legal, how it drives, off road, on road, how it looks.

uh it is extremely "PROVEN" ,     and believe me i'll put my 'hybrid' up against anything from DOA under $7500

reliable ??   just ask LCEngineering, toysport, and anyone elsethats ever raced one

[Duffil]

uh, the reason toyota didn't do that is because the 22R head is more emissions-friendly. the 20R head will let you rev higher but won't really do much for torque.

that's like saying, if toyota designed the pickup with push pull steering, you wouldn't believe in crossover

Didn't that setup actually come stock on supra's?  you know 22r block with a 20r head?
sorry for the thread jack...

[seanc [OP]]

the push pull steering works great with stock sized tires but when you start upgrading one thing well it's a chain reaction, involving more upgrades than most would suspect. it's just like you can't have a fully built engine with stock managment, it won't be reliable or put out any where near the numbers it should, in fact i just built a Mitshubishi Starion for someone at first with a fully built engine and near stock managment, that put down 230hp and 300ft-lbs then after chipping my own ECU and building an EFI set-up for it (orginally TBI with an extra injector for the turbo) it put down 330 hp and 350ft-lbs. so you can't just change one thing when modding a vehicle you need to start changing the dynamics of the entire vehicle. on the hand of emissions yes the 22r is built for emissions which in my mind is a good thing for the environment... now i am kinda confused just by putting a stock 20r head on a stock 22r how does it allow it to rev higher, it raises the compression which in turn should increase torque, are the 20r valve springs tighter... or 

[Duffil]

It flows better than the 22r head

[kyle_22r]

the valves are actually smaller, and it really doesn't bump the compression much(by a few ccs maybe).  the way it lets the engine rev higher is that the intake ports are a straight shot into the combustion chamber, rather than going around a big lump like a 22R head

[79coyotefrg]

... so you can't just change one thing when modding a vehicle you need to start changing the dynamics of the entire vehicle... now i am kinda confused just by putting a stock 20r head on a stock 22r how does it allow it to rev higher, it raises the compression which in turn should increase torque, are the 20r valve springs tighter... or

  the combustion chambers on the 20 are 8 cc's smaller, and a 'hemi' shape,   a stock 20 head on a stock 22 block raises the compression from 9 to 9.7, going from 90 hp to around 120        like Kyle said the 20R head flows much better and the early 22 80-84  was basically a bored out 20R casting

 then add a real cam like mine, stage II LCengineering race cam .460 lift 280 duration, notching pistons for clearance,   22R valves ... almost 3 mm larger,  porting,  1.5 inch 4into1 racing header into 2.5 inch tube,  weber carb,  and you have 185 + hp, ask me how i know,   sidedrafts = well over 200HP


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