Start of Frame Up Project

[PAToyota]

I have been planning on building my '85 pickup for a few years now, but other things in life have been taking precedence. Funny how that works...

However, back in May of this year, the truck did not pass the state inspection due to rust holes in the frame.   It took some time to clear other things out of my schedule, but I finally cleaned the frame rails up with a needle scaler and welded in patches of 1/4" plate over the sections with holes. The truck passed inspection the beginning of September and is back on the road.

This is only a temporary measure. I figure that the current repairs will get me through next Spring's inspection as well at the very least. However, as bad as the frame was in places, I am wondering where the holes will appear next and how long until I have to make more repairs. I went over the frame with the needle scaler rather extensively and turned up as much as I could, but after watching all the rust scale fall off I have doubts about the integrity of the rest of the frame (I ended up with a 2 1/2 gallon pail heaping full of rust from this exercise).

So I am planning on replacing the frame. From talking to several sources and seeing what is available, I am going with a welded rectangular tube steel frame that pretty much duplicates the stock frame. Of course, there will be modifications made to accomodate upgrades. The basic frame will be fabricated and then added to as details are worked out. Engine mounts (V8 in the plans), shock mounts (longer travel), and spring hangers (longer springs) will be left off initially. I am also toying with the idea of extending the front frame rails to encorporate into a more solid front bumper mount.

My questions:

Anybody have any interesting frame modification ideas they want to discuss?

Anything other than the above items that people would typically cut off a stock frame that I should (therefore) leave off a new frame?

Looking at longer spring setups, it seems that people are leaving the front mounts for the front springs and the rear mounts for the rear springs in the stock locations. Then the rear mounts for the front springs and the front mounts for the rear springs are the ones that move for the added length. Correct? Is there an advantage to moving the rear hangers on the rear springs further back?

I am not exactly sure how this will work out, but the plan is to do as much work as possible, then dismantle the current truck and transfer the remaining parts over to the new frame. I need the use of the truck as long as possible and don't want to buy another truck to use while this one is in pieces. The main question is with the engine. Will it work to fit the engine into the frame and then expect to fit the body over it? Or should I do as much work as possible, transfer the body, and then try to stuff the engine into things?

I am trying to put some of this together in my head a bit first before diving into it.

[cruzila]

I am trying to put some of this together in my head a bit first before diving into it.

My .02

Get it in your head almost completely before you start.

Rear spring mounts are being relocated as well as front ones. If you put a non stock engine on a custom frame and then put a body over it you will have major problems guaranteed. I have done and redone too many mods becauase I did not think them through.

Talk to as many as possible and get your ideas down on paper. Get the overall picture in your mind before you pick up a wrench and you will be satisfied with you're project when it is done.

Scott

[PAToyota]

Thanks for the $0.02!

That is what I am trying to do.  I, too, have seen too many projects go south with poor planning.  I am trying to minimize downtime of the truck...  However, I could end up spending more time when it does not go right...  Right?

Thanks!

[cruzila]

Another thing. When it comes down to it EVERYTHING I have shortcut because of time has failed either on trail or over a short time.

[Doc]

"Any job worth doing is worth doing right"
"If your gonna do it do it right the first time"
"Think of the time you would have saved by doing it right"

Those came to my mind, I would say to type/write up a list of all of your mods, Fixes, wishes etc. Weigh each one out and then Produce a list of whats going on the truck....

Theres my .02

Now you have .04.......


Doc

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

add up all the prices of every thing and add like 50% make sure you have this much you probally wont spend that much but ya never know:dunno:
$.96 just so you have an even dollor

[PAToyota]

Many thanks for all the responses.

Based on the advice, I think that I am going to look for a wrecked or rusted out cab and front clip (my cab and clip is in good shape).  I can probably find one fairly cheap, use it to get my placement correct, and have the added benefit of not having to worry if I accidently drop the engine on the fender... :-0

I can also cut the roof and excess off the cab to make it easier to move around while fitting and welding.

I've been doing the armchair wrenching (sort of like bench racing) on this project for quite some time.  Believe me, I have multiple generations of lists, figures, drawings, etc.  Now it is a matter of actually making it happen.

Right now I am trying to get things together to get the frame built.

Certain placement items are going to have to be figured out later -- such as motor mounts once final engine location is figured out.

Other things I would like to get in as reference points for the rest of it -- body mounts, the front mounts for the front springs, things that are not going to change from stock.

The trick is to not have to cut things back off the frame later... ;-)

[cruzila]

Do not forget that a little thing like motor mounts can snowball into things like trans hitting body, things not lining up, steering rod interference and the like. Not these exactly but one thing always effects many others.

Scott

PS now ya got a 1.02 don't spend it all in one place.

[PAToyota]

That is the thing...   At some point you have to dive into it and start putting it together.  On paper you can only go so far...

So, back to my original question...

The current modifications to the new frame being fabricated will be the motor mounts for the V8, relocated spring hangers for longer front and rear springs, relocated shock mounts, and extended front frame rails for bumper integration.  There will also be a built-in 1" body lift due to taller cross-section of the rectangular tube from the stock frame.

Other modifications will be added later -- rocksliders, integral receiver hitch, aux. gas tank mounts, etc.  Right now I am trying to get the basic frame together.

Any other ideas before the steel starts to be cut and welded together?

[Paul_Elbisser]

You could use the ford shock mounts, and weld a plate to bolt them on. They have 2 holes in the mount so you could put 4 holes to bolt them to the frame. Then they could have 3 diferent positions depending how you mount them.

[PAToyota]

That was the route I was planning to take for the front shocks to get more travel.  It seems like a very clean modification.

Perhaps a little more of the picture is in order.  Drivetrain will be GM V8, NV4500, Marlin MC07 dual case (stock gearing in one, 4:1 in the other), rear axle will be upgraded to full floater, and the front axle could end up being a Marlin D60/Toy Hybrid considering the weight and torque of the V8.  ARB lockers each end since the truck will see highway miles as well.

I am looking for a well rounded truck, not a designated rock crawler.  The dual case is more for the available ranges (high, low, and ultra low) and probably will not see ultra-low often.  I am not heavy on the go-pedal, so the rear axle should survive.

The current rusted out bed will be replaced with something custom.  I like the looks of the flatbeds with roll cage, but need something enclosed.

[Paul_Elbisser]

I am running RS9012's with the shock mounts welded to the IFS frame(SAS). The IFS frame doesn't have as big of a hump in it like the solid axle frame. So when I welded the mount to it I put it on 1/2" from the bottom of the frame, and I now bottom the shocks out. I would recoment a plate with a gusset. Drill and tap the holes, the frame will be in the way at the lower holes. Use fine thread bolts and lock washers. Studs would be good too, but harder to swap in a pinch. ( like if you find out your driveshaft isn't long enough you could raise the shock to limit downtravel. If you have trouble with bolts backing out studs will help.

[PAToyota]

Not sure if I am following...

Are you saying a plate welded to the frame that the Ford shock mount bolts to so that the mount is adjustable?

[cruzila]

It sounds like it. From my experience shocks mounts should be last to be installed. Get the weight of the entire vehicle on them, allow for payload and weld/blot the mounts 1/2 or 1 inch higher. That may change subject to length of shock eyc. but you get the idea.

[PAToyota]

That's the thing.  Shock mounts and lengths are dictated by the suspension.  Suspension is going to be dictated to a certain extent by the drivetrain -- front axle clearing the oil pan and such.  Drivetrain is dictated by how it can fit into the frame and body....

As I say, there comes a time where you have to go from paper to the real thing.

[Paul_Elbisser]

And we all know things change over the years. So a little work now will make it easy on you later.

[PAToyota]

Taking the plunge tonight.  Going to get the fabrication started...

Many thanks for all the advice.  I'll be posting updates (and questions) as things move along.   :up:

[Doc]

Sounds Great :up:


Doc

[toytruck]

Have  built a straight frame toy in the past, great advantage is you wont need much lift as the frame is straight.  Will post some pics if I can get them on here.
Steve

[toytruck]

Here are some pics of my old straight frame truck

[toytruck]

another pic

[toytruck]

and one on the road

[toytruck]

one off road

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

Whats with the gay dump bed:stopit:

[cruzila]

Whats with the gay dump bed:stopit:

down boy,down

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

just asking

[PAToyota]

Hey, don't knock the dump bed...  I agree, those bed dancing low riders are another issue, but I can think of a number of times I really wish that I could have just dumped the whole contents of my bed in seconds.  Helping the ex-wife move out would have been one of them -- just leave everything on the front lawn, including the tire tracks from peeling out across the grass after dumping the load!

Anyway, thanks for the photos.  That looks pretty cool.  The frame I am putting together mimics the stock frame with the curve at the front of the bed.  I hope to be posting pictures of it before too long.

[rEdnECkwHeE1eR]

most lifted truks with dump beds are but they are usefull thts why I asked

[mr4x42u]

I think red neck just needs a reason to use the   icon....But lowriders with dumpbeds are sooo very   ...need lots of   to drive a lowrider truck...

[JWHurst]

Your probably not being realistic in thinking this project will be a short time to complete .  I spent two years rebuilding my rig after a flip.

  You may want to visit my site listed with my reply above to see what some of my work involved and possibly get some ideas from it.  And the Dump Bed is a great idea if you're going to the trouble of reconstructing.  I built this one from 55 cents a pound scrap metal for a total cost of about $100 (less the Hyd. part costs) and it's bed rolls off onto the ground for easier loading heavy loads, dirt bike etc..

  The 15 year old that didn't think a dump bed is use full apparently hasn't been a trucker for long... 8)