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You are right, torque is generally accepted in foot pounds, but just stating pounds doesn't give the proper info. Ever hear of INCH pounds? it's used VERY frequently. If you've been around anything mechanical your whole life you would know pounds are specified in inch and foot. Get the two mixed up and things FAIL! Either way. So go ahead and torque your head bolts to 75 pounds (inch) and see how long that lasts. It IS a pertinent piece of spec information. Any mechanic worth his weight in knows the difference. It's not B.S.Might as well just tighten all your bolts with a ratchet, there, feels tight.
Don’t mean to go off topic here, but my engine was originally a 22r with a “trd” cam. I swapped over to efi, but left the carb cam in. I know there is a slight difference between efi and carb cams. Been running it like this for the last 16 years. Wondering if I’m possibly losing out on an extra 1-2 Hp. Lol. Always wondered about this.
The biggest power modification you can do to a 22R or RE is a 3RZ swap
https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=19288.0I found this nearly 15-year old short thread on replacing a camshaft and it is interesting that it seems to be a common misbelief that you cannot swap a camshaft in a 22 without replacing the head gasket.Read post #5Swapping camshafts on race engines is done all the time without removing the head.If you are rebuilding and engine and you have ANY idea that you might swap a camshaft in the future, or have to replace the rocker rack, install an ARP Stud Kit and then you will make a future swap easily and with less risk of causing a problem with the seal of the head gasket.Gnarls.
Outstanding thread! Gnarls, what cam are you currently running? Engine specs?
Hey G…Thank you.Engine specs: 1986 22RE, bored .020” over, now stock head and valves, factory cam, Doug Thorley header.As I have reported in my engine rebuild thread, I had major failures with the engnbldr head and rebuild kit, with a Crawler cam. After doing a compression check and leakdown test, I pulled the head and had it inspected at my local head shop. They said the valves and valve seats were not installed correctly, and the valve springs were defective. All 4 exhaust valves were not closing. I had the head shop build me a new head with stock valves. Since I don’t think the new head will fix the oil consumption of 1 quart every 600 miles (expert opinion says that the Chinese rings are defective), I didn’t want to invest in any more mods until I know if I have to pull this engine and completely rebuild it, or buy an engine from Jim at 22RE Performance. I decided to re-install the factory cam and the rocker rack that came out of the engine before I started the rebuild. They are in very good condition and have relatively low mileage.With the factory cam and stock valves, I noticed a definite difference - less torque throughout the RPM range, and slower throttle response than the engnbldr head, oversize valves, and Crawler 261C cam - before the head gasket and valve failures.The pandemic thing allows me to work from home, so I am not driving my truck 350 miles a week, so I have not had a chance to see what the oil consumption is. Once I figure out if this engine rebuild is good or bad, I will decide to buy a rebuilt 22 or do a V-8 swap.If I stay with a 22RE and get it running like I want, I would like to go back to my original plan of 20 years ago and test several cam profiles on a local chassis dyno. Gnarls.
That really sucks! I’ll check out your engine thread to get more details on what happened. I’d be very interested to see the different cam profiles dyno’ed on the same engine. Although I run an ‘82 engine with the carb it would still be interesting to see. The problem for me is no one makes a new head for the early model 22r engines. So I either get mine re-worked or get a later model block.
Hi G...The carb'd engines seem to respond much better to cam changes than the 22REs.Gnarls.
So many other cam grinders out there. I've used WEB cams in other engines. Curious about a couple of their grinds for the 22R/E. What do you think about their 94, 94a and 391 grinds? http://www.webcamshafts.com/pages_vehicles/automobile/toyota/982.html
Sirdeuce, what’s your thoughts on those 3 cam profiles? The 391 is pretty interesting. It’s a lot of cam compared to the two Schneider’s I was intrigued by. I wonder how it would perform in the carb’d engine
Those WEB cams with high lift and split centerlines are only for radically modified engines!!Gnarls.
How radical of a build are we talking? I’d like to build my truck to pull hard all the way to 5000 rpm while maintaining the 22R’s reliability and streetability (is that even a word?) while not being a gas hog. My old tired engine with 31s and 4.10 gears gets around 20. I’d give up some fuel economy for tq and hp, but I don’t want to get 12 mpg either. This is my DD. Can I have all this and still get 140-150 hp, 160-170 tq? Or is that dreaming?
Hi G….Oh…. You were having that infamous dream that many of us have had… and then you woke up! So 1985 shortbed, basically stock 96 HP 22R with a DT header, 2” tubing and turbo muffler, 5-speed, weighed 3200 lbs. with a full tank of fuel.It would blow the tailgate off both of my 1986 22REs. It got 19 and 20 MPG and I didn’t baby it.Can a 22R be rebuilt to get 140 to 150 HP and 160 to 170 ft. lbs of torque and pull all the way to 5,000, be Toyota reliable and get 20 MPG? All of the numbers in my Performance Trend Engine Analyzer says probably. Depending upon the weight of your truck, going from 96 HP to 130HP and 155 ft lbs of torque will be VERY noticeable!!If I could go back in time and do a rebuild of my 1985 22R, I’d bore it 40 over, increase compression ratio to 9.5, port head, bigger valves, mid range torquey cam, DT header and 2” tubing, turbo muffler, stock intake and carb. If my AFR gauge didn’t show the right numbers, I’d change the intake manifold and bolt on a Weber. I’d R&P the diffs so my peak torque would be at 3000 to 3200 RPMs. I want torque. I don’t care about boosting the HP number at 5,500 RPMs… I don’t drive at 5,500 RPMs.But from my limited engine building experience, knowing what I know now, I’d just have Jim at 22RE Performance build me an engine. Go to LC Engineering and look at the Stage 2, 3, 4 cams.https://www.lceperformance.com/Camshaft-20R-22R-RE-RET-Stage-3-Cam-p/1022039.htmWould you consider the requirements for those cams to be a highly modified or radically built engine? Gnarls.
G....I think you and I are on the same page.Yes, the Web cams are close to LCE's Stage 3, 4 LCE cams. I just referenced LCE for their descriptions.The reason I would “try” the Aisin carb first is because it *may* flow enough CFM for a mild cam and header engine, and it’s an excellent carb.Also, during my duning years, I ran Webers for 8 years. In my experience, they are fussy, not easily tuned, and demand super clean air and fuel. Of course, the dunes are nearly as bad as it gets for dust… well… being behind Dan McMillin for a few minutes in the Baja 500 would be the worst. On my last sand rail I had 3 inline fuel filters from my gas tank to the carb. I spent many hours making love to K&N air filters, and I can write a short story on my opinion of them.I'm North of $5,000 on my rebuild project for my current 1986 22RE and it took me 3 years to save up the money. I would really enjoy building an engine myself, but I think I may be a tad short on engine building knowledge and skills. I bought my parts from a very well-known early Toyota source and trusted I was getting quality parts. That turned out to not be true. For example, I was told when I questioned the head gasket in their rebuild kit that it was the same gasket as Toyota uses for their 22R Turbo engines. THAT was BS! That DNJ head gasket is a perfect example of Chinese junk! I also trusted my local machine shop... I should have been very careful to understand EXACTLY how they machined the block and mic'd the parts (i.e. cylinder RA)... another mistake in trusting a very reputable shop. I did not purposely cut any corners on the rebuild, but obviously did not choose the right name brands.My recommendation is to do lots of research and VERY carefully select your parts and who machines the block. By the way I believe it takes more hours and more money to rebuild it right than what is typically predicted.That's just my worthless opinion. Gnarls.
... My truck needs a lot of things done to it
Long story short, just a cam ain't gonna do it.
With oversize valves and proper port work the low end grunt can get BETTER! If the work done is for all out racing and targets top end you will lose in the bottom. Find someone that knows the difference.
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