Author Topic: 22r timing curve modification  (Read 1770 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3599
  • Male Posts: 2,964
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #30 on: Apr 06, 2019, 03:48:32 PM »
... this thing will pull all the way to 5000 rpm with only slightly
slower acceleration right at the end...

 You tach'd it to 5,000 RPMS!!!  :yikes:

Gnarls. :gap:

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyoboy [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 62
  • Posts: 48
  • Member since Jul '18
  • Crawling with Marlin
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #31 on: Apr 06, 2019, 04:04:59 PM »
i sure don't do it every day, but i have done it three or four times.

and the stock tach might be off 100 or so but still close enough to say i went to 5000

but it doesn't vibrate or make weird sounds and it is still pulling plenty strong so i think doing it occasionally shouldn't be to dangerous.

i also had to replace my front crank seal because the old one was a cheapo dnj i think.
82' w/dual t-cases, desmoged, with minor mods. 88' ex-cab 4x4 chassis with front diff and other 4x4 components removed, 4.3 v6 swab and other major mods in progress

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3599
  • Male Posts: 2,964
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #32 on: Apr 06, 2019, 05:07:15 PM »
i sure don't do it every day, but i have done it three or four times.

and the stock tach might be off 100 or so but still close enough to say i went to 5000

but it doesn't vibrate or make weird sounds and it is still pulling plenty strong so i think doing it occasionally shouldn't be to dangerous.

i also had to replace my front crank seal because the old one was a cheapo dnj i think.

I was being somewhat facetious.  I have always been surprised by those I have met and those I have read about that don't tach up their 20, 22R, or 22RE.  I have met people who don't tach their engine passed 3,000 RPMs as most of their drive time.

I have NEVER babied my engines, or any of my vehicles.  Both my first 1986 22RE and my 1985 22R short bed, were in the Glamis sand dunes several times... actually duning!!  I tach'd them up all day long at 4,000 to 5,000 for short burst multiple times.  Sometimes I'd be 4,000 and 4,500 RPMs for several minutes at time.

I don't believe these engines like to be lugged around.  I don't believe I could "wear" out my engine prematurely by taching it up once a day to 5,000 in 1st and 2nd gears.

Now.. before I went to a dune trip, I spent considerable time tuning the engines and making sure the truck was in tip top shape.

These little engines are arguably one of THE most over-built (over engineered) early designed overhead cam engines ever manufactured.

That's just my opinion and my limited experience.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :blah:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyoboy [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 62
  • Posts: 48
  • Member since Jul '18
  • Crawling with Marlin
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #33 on: Apr 06, 2019, 05:51:54 PM »
these things reach peak hp at 4800 rpm at which point the early has about 105 ft/lbs while peak torque is achieved at 2800 rpm and is about 130 ft/lbs, i believe that the engine was intended to be used in this range(redline is 5400 and normally from my limited experience there is about 500 rpm of overrev designed into most engines), i tach it to 4400 every day and it handles that perfectly fine.
82' w/dual t-cases, desmoged, with minor mods. 88' ex-cab 4x4 chassis with front diff and other 4x4 components removed, 4.3 v6 swab and other major mods in progress

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3599
  • Male Posts: 2,964
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #34 on: Apr 07, 2019, 05:52:52 AM »
these things reach peak hp at 4800 rpm at which point the early has about 105 ft/lbs while peak torque is achieved at 2800 rpm and is about 130 ft/lbs, i believe that the engine was intended to be used in this range(redline is 5400 and normally from my limited experience there is about 500 rpm of overrev designed into most engines), i tach it to 4400 every day and it handles that perfectly fine.

Other than the historical head and head gasket issues, and the timing chain guides, these engines seemed to be designed/built to go 250,000 to 300,000 miles without a major block rebuild.

Driving conservatively isn't going to hurt them and technically does reduce long term wear factors. 

I think following the recommended replace/repair and preventative maintenance is key to extending the life on these early Toy engines.

In my 22R and my 22RE I don't recall ever floating valves even at 6,000+ RPMs, so taching it up once in awhile didn't have any adverse results.

Obviously, overheating them will almost always cause a head failure.

Gnarls.

« Last Edit: Apr 07, 2019, 06:05:34 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3599
  • Male Posts: 2,964
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #35 on: Apr 07, 2019, 06:04:35 AM »
these things reach peak hp at 4800 rpm at which point the early has about 105 ft/lbs while peak torque is achieved at 2800 rpm and is about 130 ft/lbs, i believe that the engine was intended to be used in this range(redline is 5400 and normally from my limited experience there is about 500 rpm of overrev designed into most engines), i tach it to 4400 every day and it handles that perfectly fine.


Yeah... 2500 to 3500 RPMs seems to be the happy place for my 22REs and 22R..... But... always ready and willing to rev up to 5,000 RPMs without complaining.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :D
« Last Edit: Apr 07, 2019, 08:47:54 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyoboy [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 62
  • Posts: 48
  • Member since Jul '18
  • Crawling with Marlin
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #36 on: Apr 10, 2019, 03:25:56 PM »
so now that i've driven it for a while, i have decided that with how hard it was to hear that ping and that this is my dd and that it wasn't much of an improvement in power and the mileage did not actually change, i plan to turn it back to stock as it was designed to not harm the engine in the stock configuration. the only improvements were less grawl below 2000 rpm and only slightly better pull at around 3000 rpm WOT.
82' w/dual t-cases, desmoged, with minor mods. 88' ex-cab 4x4 chassis with front diff and other 4x4 components removed, 4.3 v6 swab and other major mods in progress

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3599
  • Male Posts: 2,964
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #37 on: Apr 10, 2019, 07:42:09 PM »
Agreed!

...“Well, one has to consider that the Toyota engineers were constrained by various factors-…” 

So…. does any backyard mechanic hacking up a distributor “to get more performance out of it,” have any “constraints”?......

Let’s see… a staff of PhDs in automotive design and engineering (and arguably THE most successful automotive production manufacturing company on the planet)… a Billion dollar shop with every “shop tool” that has ever been invented….. and of course 80+ years of experience!... just to name a few various constraints!

Gnarls.   :thumbs:


« Last Edit: Apr 10, 2019, 07:53:51 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3599
  • Male Posts: 2,964
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #38 on: Apr 10, 2019, 07:51:03 PM »
so now that i've driven it for a while, .... i plan to turn it back to stock as it was designed to not harm the engine in the stock configuration......

Reality check.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :smack:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyoboy [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 62
  • Posts: 48
  • Member since Jul '18
  • Crawling with Marlin
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #39 on: Apr 20, 2019, 10:46:55 AM »
Yeah, the constraint is I don't have a knock sensor installed yet.
82' w/dual t-cases, desmoged, with minor mods. 88' ex-cab 4x4 chassis with front diff and other 4x4 components removed, 4.3 v6 swab and other major mods in progress

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3599
  • Male Posts: 2,964
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #40 on: Apr 20, 2019, 12:53:28 PM »
Yeah, the constraint is I don't have a knock sensor installed yet.

Did my 1985 22R have a knock sensor? :dunno:

I don't remember for sure... but I know I used my old ears... worked pretty good for picking up the "ping". :gap:

Gnarls. :thumbs:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyoboy [OP]

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
  • **
  • Turtle Points: 62
  • Posts: 48
  • Member since Jul '18
  • Crawling with Marlin
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #41 on: Apr 22, 2019, 01:00:04 PM »
The ears can hear a loud ping, but the knock sensor will read it at a much quieter level
82' w/dual t-cases, desmoged, with minor mods. 88' ex-cab 4x4 chassis with front diff and other 4x4 components removed, 4.3 v6 swab and other major mods in progress

Gnarly4X

  • Offline The 2.5K Group
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3599
  • Male Posts: 2,964
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #42 on: Apr 22, 2019, 07:10:08 PM »
The ears can hear a loud ping, but the knock sensor will read it at a much quieter level

TRUE.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce

  • Offline Rock Master
  • ***
  • Turtle Points: 11
  • Male Posts: 163
  • Member since Sep '06
  • One shot, one kill.
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2019, 10:40:20 AM »
I come from the old school VW crowd, and I modded my 20R distributors to have just a mechanical advance. Simple to bypass the vac advance, just don't put the hose on, 0 braincells stressed on that one. then, with a Dremel, I ground the stops in the distributor to give me a total of 26 degrees mechanical advance. I had already found my best initial advance for my engine, 12 degrees, so I had a total of 38 degrees advance. Then to keep the curve under control I was able to use springs for a Chevy distributor, Mallory had a set of assorted spring rates available in a kit back then. Total advance came in at 7000rpm and was pretty linear.  If I needed to do an adjustment all I had to do with that distributor is turn the "Octane selector" knob. The 20R distributors had a screw that adjusted the initial timing and was connected to the vacuum advance mechanism. It was sooo easy back then.
From the VWs I learned to use just a mechanical advance using a '009" distributor, mechanical advance only. We set the initial advance at 0 and let the distributor do all the timing work.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

redneckcustoms13

  • Offline The 2K Group
  • ***
  • Turtle Points: 6729
  • Male Posts: 2,396
  • Member since May '15
    • Buy me a beer
Re: 22r timing curve modification
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2019, 11:38:42 AM »
I loved my early 22 and 20. They would wrap way up there with them old domed pistons.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

 
 
 
 
 

Related Topics

12 Replies
1929 Views
Last post Jul 25, 2006, 02:01:29 PM
by johnyreb69
7 Replies
19177 Views
Last post Mar 11, 2007, 06:35:33 PM
by wrenchtech
6 Replies
1099 Views
Last post Aug 23, 2008, 02:18:19 PM
by Doof
7 Replies
949 Views
Last post Apr 18, 2009, 11:40:16 PM
by Duffil
1 Replies
916 Views
Last post Aug 25, 2010, 05:36:57 PM
by OOPS