Topic: No spark -- bad igniter?

[Lewis Hein]

Hi all,

So, the other day I was waiting at a red light in town when I heard a tic-tic-tic-tic start up somewhere under the hood about directly in front of me and maybe a little to the left. I had just enough time to think "That doesn't sound good. I should look into it sometime" before the engine died.

I've tried everything I can think of, but can't get spark. The coil checks out as best as I can tell with a cheap ohm meter, the HT lead to the distributor checks out, and there is 12V at the brown wire coming to the igniter. Do I conclude the igniter is bad? I am hesitant to replace a $200 part on the grounds that all the others seem fine. Especially since many people say this is a really rare failure. But then again, that noise could have been the igniter shorting inside...

Any thoughts? Anyone had this before?

Thanks,

Lewis
P.S. It's an '85 22r. Lots of miles on the igniter, too: at least 150,000

[H8PVMNT]

Man you have all the luck don't you!

If your ignitor is getting everything it needs but no spark it might have gone bad.  I have had one go bad spontaneously, one other I fried with welding.  SO yes they can go bad.

Other things to check are the pick up coil in the distributor and those pick up wires, I have had those get crusty enough to not work.  It sounds like you eliminated those already though.

Want me to see if I have an ignitor for you in the shed?
Post up a photo of the style you have.

[Gnarly4X]

Ignitors don't usually make a noise when they fail.

Gnarls.

[H8PVMNT]

That is true.  When I had a tick tick tick and then no spark once I had a rotor wipe out. That was on a GM HEI on a 215 Buick, but same thing.

[05sport4x4]

I had an intermittent no start on my 89 22re with no spark to the spark plugs.  Thought it was the igniter so I bought a new one and still no start.  Ended up being in the distributor which was replaced.  Still have the brand new unused igniter.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Here are the photos.



Enviado desde mi ASUS_X008DC mediante Tapatalk

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Oh -- and I hook a spark plug up to the ignition coil output and still have no spark.

[OVRAROK]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epirate4x4%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D179253&share_tid=179253&share_fid=4267&share_type=t

complete bypass of toy ignitor and coil for 30$

[emsvitil]

Could also be the pickup inside the distributor

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epirate4x4%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D179253&share_tid=179253&share_fid=4267&share_type=t

complete bypass of toy ignitor and coil for 30$

Thanks, this will be great to know next time I'm stranded. However, for a non-emergency repair, I'm not inclined to go that route... I want a Toyota pickup, not an Autozone pickup

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Could also be the pickup inside the distributor

Well, its resistance checked out. How else do I test it?

[Gnarly4X]

There is fairly simple way to check the diag codes watching the blinks on the Check Engine light.

Jumper T and E1 on the check connector.

Code 3 and Code 6 will usually give a clue.

The Codes point you in the “trouble areas”  - ignitor, ignitor circuit, ECU, or distributor.

In the FSM (1986 Repair Manual - Truck & 4Runner) Pages FI-22 thru 25 will give you the details for diagnostic procedure.

Gnarls.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Sorry, Gnarls. You're living in EFI land. I don't even have a check engine light.

I wish it were possible. I swore I'd stay aloof from EFI and mercilessly tease those who had it, but right now I must admit a diag port would be nice.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Lewis,

Have you checked the fuses in the driver’s side fuse box that sits right above the kick panel?  There’s a 15A Engine fuse and 75A Ignition fuse.  There’s a Main Relay just inside the kick panel.

I don't know for sure if those failures would cause no spark, but without testing myself, probably will.  The last time I had a no spark, it was the ignitor on my 1985 22R, and it was, so far, the only ignition failure I've had.

Gnarls.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Man you have all the luck don't you!

Yup. I have payed heavily for my own ignorance when inspecting the thing before purchase. Next time someone wants to charge me $3500 for a truck with a worn rear diff, glazed brakes all round, bad rear brake shoes, big engine oil leak, bad valve stem seals, bad front axle seals and cracked windshield, my answer is going to be a resounding "NOPE!"

If your ignitor is getting everything it needs but no spark it might have gone bad.  I have had one go bad spontaneously, one other I fried with welding.  SO yes they can go bad.

Other things to check are the pick up coil in the distributor and those pick up wires, I have had those get crusty enough to not work.  It sounds like you eliminated those already though.

As far as I can tell, yes

Want me to see if I have an ignitor for you in the shed?
Post up a photo of the style you have.

Sure... Thanks a bunch. If you find one, PM me your email for PayPal.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Hey Lewis,

Have you checked the fuses in the driver’s side fuse box that sits right above the kick panel?  There’s a 15A Engine fuse and 75A Ignition fuse.  There’s a Main Relay just inside the kick panel.

I don't know for sure if those failures would cause no spark, but without testing myself, probably will.  The last time I had a no spark, it was the ignitor on my 1985 22R, and it was, so far, the only ignition failure I've had.

Gnarls.

Good thought, Gnarls. I did check the Ignition fuse and it looked fine. If I recall, there is no Engine fuse on a 22R. I will have to look into that main relay.

Did your ignitor happen to go out after getting unusually hot? I took a 500 mile road trip halfway across Wyoming and back just before this. When I stopped in the middle of the drive home to add oil, the engine was just barely below halfway on the temp gauge (a little higher than normal), but the hood was a bit hot to the touch. And a tiny thread of smoke rose out of the hole when I poured in new oil, so it was certainly hot under there.

[Gnarly4X]

Sorry, Gnarls. You're living in EFI land. I don't even have a check engine light.

Well... hell... that sucks like a big giant Hoover!  Geezz.... it's been quite awhile, but I thought my old 85 22R had a Check Engine light...  .... guess it's been way too long. 

So... no check light... well.... now you might as well be screwed blue and tatoo'd!! 

Just kidding... I'd take my 85 22R back before you can say "no check light"!! 

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X]

...
Did your ignitor happen to go out after getting unusually hot?

I don't think the engine bay temp at one particular moment does it, its just over time one or more of the discrete components fail.

Back in 199? when it failed, the engine just stopped.  I bought a brand new one from Toyota... OUCH!!  I took the old one and rebuilt it with a 1985 GM ignitor and wired it in to the Toy ignitor case.  I still have the photo that Benjamin (Thank YOU Benjamin, you are an awesome dude!) on the Off-Road.com site posted!!  As I remember that GM ignitor was about $6, and it took me about 1 hour to solder in the ignitor and resistor I bought at RadioShack.  And it worked perfectly.  I had it under my seat for a spare.

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

Test the coil without ignitor.

[emsvitil]

I also like the GM HEI conversion idea.....

Not Toyota, but here's more info.

http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15779

[Snowtoy]

So, the other day I was waiting at a red light in town when I heard a tic-tic-tic-tic start up somewhere under the hood about directly in front of me and maybe a little to the left. I had just enough time to think "That doesn't sound good. I should look into it sometime" before the engine died

If the "tic" was more like a "snap", something was grounding out.

I've tried everything I can think of, but can't get spark. The coil checks out as best as I can tell with a cheap ohm meter, the HT lead to the distributor checks out, and there is 12V at the brown wire coming to the igniter. Do I conclude the igniter is bad?

The 1985 FSM located here will walk you through the steps from checking the wires through the igniter.

I am hesitant to replace a $200 part on the grounds that all the others seem fine. Especially since many people say this is a really rare failure. But then again, that noise could have been the igniter shorting inside...

P.S. It's an '85 22r. Lots of miles on the igniter, too: at least 150,000

You have to understand that your rig is 32yrs old and you live in an extreme climate, you passed the "rare Toyota part failure" time frame about 8-10yrs ago.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Extreme climate?? Seems to me that the Wyoming climate is pretty nice to machines.


I looked at the FSM on day 1, but their instructions made no sense because I couldn't find a pink wire or a yellow wire... All I could find were dirt-colored wires. Maybe I'll try the test now that I have access to wire colors.

[Gnarly4X]

Extreme climate?? Seems to me that the Wyoming climate is pretty nice to machines.

It's a matter of perspective.  I would be hard pressed to say that Wyoming as a state, based on climate, would be "nice" to machines.

The lowest point in Wyoming is the Belle Fourche River at 3,099 feet above sea level. The Mean Elevation of the state of Wyoming is 6,700 feet above sea level making Wyoming the second highest state just after Colorado.

Compared to other states with "nice" climate, Wyoming certainly could be considered to have extreme climate.

In January, the coldest month generally, man minimum temperatures range mostly from 5 to 10° F. In the western valleys mean values go down to about 5° below zero.

If we are talking about engines, then cold starts are known to cause significant oil lubricated engine component wear.  It would seem that Wyoming's weather, depending upon which elevation you are living, would not be "nice" to engines.

Gnarls.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

OK, it's a matter of perspective.

Actually, most winters in my part of the state get down to -20 at least once. What I was thinking about was that it is dry.

When I was in a rainy part of Panama, I had a few episodes of trying to fix old AC units and space heaters. I was astounded by the number of things that seemed to spontaneously rust tight or rust away and induce other failures as a result. I came away concluding that the Wyoming climate is really nice to machines.

[H8PVMNT]

I will dig around and see if I have an ignitor for you.  If I do I will just ship it to you and you can try it out first before you give me anything for it.

[Gnarly4X]

OK, it's a matter of perspective....... I came away concluding that the Wyoming climate is really nice to machines.... What I was thinking about was that it is dry.

Precipitation can be very bad for vehicles in climates where the DOT uses salt and sand to treat the roadways for ice and snow.  A dry climate is “nicer” to machines than a wet climate.

In the states that salt roads, body and chassis rust and corrosion within 2 years can virtually destroy a vehicle.  Sanded highways cause a huge number of damaged windshields, requiring repair or replacement.  Replacement of windshields on the newer cars and trucks with camera-based technology for lane departure warning, collision detect, heads-up displays, rain sensors, and de-icing heating elements, can cost 100s of dollars and take days to get replaced.

Gnarls.
 

[:)bestgen4runner]

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Whatever that means...

[:)bestgen4runner]

It means I am thinking about helping. Have not made My mind up yet.
Bring Me up to speed. I work at a local 40Rentals. I also have some car experience.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Bring Me up to speed.

OK -- My truck stopped running in the middle of the street a few days ago. I cannot get any spark, even hooking #1 plug straight up to the output of the igniton coil.

The ignition coil and sensor in the distributor both check out with an ohm meter, and the ignitor has 12v coming in. I am inclined to blame the ignitor but I'm doing some research before making a $100-$300 leap.

Hope this brings you up to speed. Shouldn't take much... after all, the speed of my truck right now is zero, to any reasonable precision.