Topic: 1983: Reagan, The Police, Return of the Jedi, Hobie Cats & this Toyota truck.

[toy_tek]

Sourced a 2 coil 3RZ of questionable status.  The good: W59 bellhousing, rear sump oil pan, ECU & harness and a bunch of parts.  The Bad: won't turn over by hand, missing power steering pump & bracket as well as AC compressor & bracket.

...to be continued...

[R.DesJardin]

Just ran across this, yes I don't get out much. In 1983 the Toyota's were the JK of today. Shiny with lots of bling on them and nobody wanted to get theirs dirty, maybe mud puddles. Almost no one anyway. I was 23 and didn't buy one to wheel, but that's a story for another time.
The RZ swap is well worth it.

[Gnarly4X]

The RZ swap is well worth it.

What does it cost to do a 1986 22RE SR5 Xtracab, 5-speed, to RZ swap? 

Gnarls.

[R.DesJardin]

Depends on several things. Obviously the price of the donor motor. I purchased motor mounts, built cross member, new exhaust. I used the wiring from the donor Tacoma and replaced the stock harness with it. I have a build thread here. And of course tons of info here too. All the cool kids run a RZ. I rate it as one of the simpler swaps I've done.

[Gnarly4X]

Depends on several things. Obviously the price of the donor motor. I purchased motor mounts, built cross member, new exhaust. I used the wiring from the donor Tacoma and replaced the stock harness with it. I have a build thread here. And of course tons of info here too. All the cool kids run a RZ. I rate it as one of the simpler swaps I've done.

Hey R.DesJardin,

So... at the risk of being overly inquisitive can you say how much it cost you to do your conversion? 

 And, have you done other Toyota to ? conversions? 

What are your thoughts on a 22RE to Chevy 4.3L Vortec conversion? 

Gnarls. 

[R.DesJardin]

Hey R.DesJardin,

So... at the risk of being overly inquisitive can you say how much it cost you to do your conversion? 

 And, have you done other Toyota to ? conversions? 

What are your thoughts on a 22RE to Chevy 4.3L Vortec conversion? 

Gnarls. 

Well I don't keep track of costs, I wasn't trying to be secretive. The motor was $450 and included the harness, gauge cluster, steering column, fuel tank and lines. I found a A340 from a 3RZ to get the bellhousing to swap onto mine, paid like $150. Chilkat mounts, not sure what else major there was. Got robbed on the motor, it needed rebuilt. Spent thousands on that, bored, pistons, rods, LCE cams, exhaust, block was cracked had to get second block.  My fault on the motor thing, I thought I was in a hurry.
I know a couple guys who did the 4.3 swap, definitely more power, fits nice. They used 700r4's.

[redneckcustoms13]

I worked my stuff out on parting out the donor and might have about $250-$300 in my 3rz swap but I also have a lot of parts trucks and stuff. I know many people that have swapped 4.3s. In my opinion the power is nice but it ruins a Toyota. A 3rz is the way to go.

Sorry for the hijack jgraham.

[R.DesJardin]

I worked my stuff out on parting out the donor and might have about $250-$300 in my 3rz swap but I also have a lot of parts trucks and stuff. I know many people that have swapped 4.3s. In my opinion the power is nice but it ruins a Toyota. A 3rz is the way to go.

Sorry for the hijack jgraham.

Back when I was a kid the GM swap was "the" option.

[THK Matt]

well cant see the pictures. but ill follow for future posts/updates

[R.DesJardin]

If anyone cares....  ...My photos are still there for some reason.      http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=84592.msg969694#msg969694     

[toy_tek [OP]]

Have the engine apart down to the just the short block now.  Everything looks surprisingly great, except for I'm pretty sure the reason it won't turn is some corrosion in the #2 cylinder wall.  Piston is near the top, i think the rings are binding on the rust on the wall.  I'll likely remove the crank & pistons in the next few days.  Got a machine shop recommendation here in Phoenix from a trusted source, called, and first contact went well so I'll likely be dropping the block & head off there whenever the shop schedule permits. 

I found a rusty ball bearing about 1/2" diameter sitting in the head... any idea what that is from? It just fell out when tipped the head on its side.  Pretty sure it isn't supposed to be in there... but then I've never worked on a complete 3RZ so what do I know?

I wasn't going to do a balance shaft delete... but now that I pulled them out (and I can't believe how little wear I'm seeing on everything) I think I might not re-install.  I know about the LCE kit.  $100 seems a bit steep for what it is, but just for the reduced complexity I might spring for it.  Did any of you guys drive the 3rz for awhile before you deleted the shafts... and how much vibration increase is it?  That's my only concern... this truck won't be relegated to trail rig duty.

Based on the ECU part number, I believe this engine is from a 1999 tacoma 4x4 manual.  Or at least thats what the ECU pn corresponds to.  Haven't really looked at the nest of wires too closely yet, want to get this block sorted out first.

My original thought process for a 3RZ swap was to get it installed as pulled from the donor , use the OBD2 port and have everything be tip-top Toyota perfect regarding emissions for the donor engine year.  Now with this piece together engine route I'm thinking I might see about bare-bones basic electrical & emissions (use the OBD2 port but not worry about emissions codes).  For registration, I can go one of 2 routes in AZ: pass the 1983 emissions standard (snif test) or do the classic insurance and bypass emissions altogether.  I would prefer the former as I'm not trying to negatively impact the environment any more than needed, and so I have a few questions regarding what is bare minimum... for evap, egr, etc.   Anyone have any pointers or links on that?  I'll be reading on this specifically as I move forward.

This swap will take it's sweet time for now... the 22r is still purring along... the w56 still needs to make its way to me from my buddy's house in Columbus Ohio... and I'm sure I have a bunch of parts to procure that I'm not even thinking about at this point. 

Preliminary list of stuff I know I need:

• Power steering pump
• Power steering bracket
• A/C compressor bracket
• Chillkat mounts (or maybe I'll fab up some mounts)
• Fuse box

If you have any of this and want to part with it... shoot me a PM please. 

Hope I'm not going against the normal forum etiquette, but I figure I'll just continue updating this thread rather than start a "build" thread.  Half of the reason is so I have something to refer back to in 5 months or 5 years when I can't recall stuff I did.  Can't tell you how many times I've referred back to Yotatech for my 4runner stuff over the past 15 years. You old(er) dudes know what I mean.

[Gnarly4X]

.... I know many people that have swapped 4.3s. In my opinion the power is nice but it ruins a Toyota. A 3rz is the way to go.

Omitting any county, state, and Federal EPA and emissions regulations regarding engine swaps.....

I understand the brand loyalty thing and the sin of adulterating the Toyota badge, however, considering the list of pros and cons when looking at any swap for the most common objective - more power - by most 4x4 off-road enthusiasts, there are some definite advantages to a well designed Chevy 4.3 swap over any Toyota engine.

Gnarls.

[Lewis Hein]

I'm skeptical of the "more power" line. Not that power would not increase, but I wonder if that would be desirable.

I look at this way: Toyota engineered the drivetrain for a certain amount of power transmission and to take a certain amount of torque. Adding whatever engine that exceeds this is certainly possible, but I wonder if it might put undue strain on other parts of the drivetrain if the swapper got too carried away.

Lewis.

[THK Matt]

I'm skeptical of the "more power" line. Not that power would not increase, but I wonder if that would be desirable.

I look at this way: Toyota engineered the drivetrain for a certain amount of power transmission and to take a certain amount of torque. Adding whatever engine that exceeds this is certainly possible, but I wonder if it might put undue strain on other parts of the drivetrain if the swapper got too carried away.

Lewis.

duals and triples put undue strain as well.

[Gnarly4X]

I'm skeptical of the "more power" line. Not that power would not increase, but I wonder if that would be desirable. ...

When adding HP to a stock vehicle strength of components affected should always be a consideration.

Swapping engines with more power – torque – is going to add “strain” on the drive train.  I believe it is a fact that the drive train of at least the early Toyota pickups is considerably stronger than other vehicles in its class.  I believe the drive train on my 1986 Xtracab is plenty strong enough to handle a 225 HP Chevy 4.3L Vortec, for example.  Or, the 276 HP of Toyota 4.7L V-8.

Can you, at will, break something in the drive train of a 96 HP Toyoto truck? YES.

Driving a vehicle with a significantly increased HP engine or high performance modifications doesn’t mean you have to be an idiot or foolish and abuse it.

The guys that I know who have done engine swaps and the many posts in Toyota forums, I don't recall hearing or reading about having to upgrade drive train components because they experienced unusual failures.

Gnarls.

[THK Matt]

When adding HP to a stock vehicle strength of components affected should always be a consideration.

Swapping engines with more power – torque – is going to add “strain” on the drive train.  I believe it is a fact that the drive train of at least the early Toyota pickups is considerably stronger than other vehicles in its class.  I believe the drive train on my 1986 Xtracab is plenty strong enough to handle a 225 HP Chevy 4.3L Vortec, for example.  Or, the 276 HP of Toyota 4.7L V-8.

Can you, at will, break something in the drive train of a 96 HP Toyoto truck? YES.

Driving a vehicle with a significantly increased HP engine or high performance modifications doesn’t mean you have to be an idiot or foolish and abuse it.

The guys that I know who have done engine swaps and the many posts in Toyota forums, I don't recall hearing or reading about having to upgrade drive train components because they experienced unusual failures.

Gnarls.

Keep in mind these same manual in the 2wd versions are found in the supra, which have way higher HP and TQ values over the trucks/SUVs do.

7MGTE had the R154 (similar to the R150Fs)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_M_engine#7M-GTE

1JZGTE had the R154 (similar to the R150Fs)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_JZ_engine#1JZ-GTE

2JZGE had the W58 (similar to the W56 and W59)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_JZ_engine#2JZ-GE

[R.DesJardin]

If you run an automatic you help soften the shock on the drivetrain. If you don't drive like a retard and side step the clutch at 5000 to get moving the drivetrain will last longer. You go as far as you can then just do the LS and tons!!!! Lol. Actually the stock 4cyl and drivetrain does very well crawling, it's just when you think you need to DD the thing to the mall you need more power.

[Lewis Hein]

I should preface this by saying that I know very little about drivetrains.

I believe that Toyota drivetrains of the mid '80s were stronger than contemporary -- for instance, Toyota used an 8" rear diff while Ford put a 6" rear on the early Rangers. However, In my ignorance I worry that with an engine swap, either the driver would have to be careful not to damage the drivetrain (thereby manually limiting the power output of the engine and the pickup as a whole) or they could be un-careful and break the weakest link that was only designed to perform reliably at, say, 120% of 22R specs, thereby still limiting the pickup as a whole to close to what its original engine would do. Why, for instance did Toyota build a stronger transmission for each new generation of engine? Perhaps because they didn't believe the older ones would hold up well enough?

That said, there could be many other reasons to swap an engine. Parts availability, fuel economy, different torque curve, etc. If I thought I could do a good job on a 3RZ swap, I probably would, just for the better efficiency and the addition of fuel injection.

OK -- my $0.02 has become $2. Let's get back to your truck.

[H8PVMNT]

Looking at the innards of Toyota 4x4 transfer cases, transmissions and diffs compared to domestics they are way, way over built.  Similar sized, sometimes a little bigger components than most of your V8 half ton domestics.

I like running 4 bangers for wheeling durability as well though just to keep that drive train well inside the overbuilt zone.

[Gnarly4X]

Looking at the innards of Toyota 4x4 transfer cases, transmissions and diffs compared to domestics they are way, way over built.  Similar sized, sometimes a little bigger components than most of your V8 half ton domestics.

Yeah... I've heard this somewhere before. 

Gnarls.

[toy_tek [OP]]

...just for the better efficiency and the addition of fuel injection.

+ OBD2

Great drivetrain discussion - perhaps it would warrant its own thread? 

[toy_tek [OP]]

I guess I can update costs as I go for anyone interested.  I intend to offset the cost of the swap with sale of my good 22r, L52 & xfer case.

$230: rear sump pan & associated, bellhousing, flywheel
$50:  3RZ longblock, 99 taco 4x4 manual ecu, harness, alternator, LCE gasket kit, box of associated parts
$300: W56B & gear drive xfer case w 75k original miles