Author Topic: 87 22R stumbling (Read 9154 times)

Taylor87 · « **on:** Oct 03, 2016, 07:50:41 AM »

Hi out there, I have an 87 Single cab that a friend help rebuild. We put on a new head, new cam (not to big), did the rings, seals, rebuilt the carb, the motor now has compression again and pulls pretty well. Since all this was done Ive had a headache because the motor wont stop stumbling. First it was dying once warm. We by passed the wires going to the fuel cut off solenoid, now it has constant power to it. We also swapped out the computer to see if that was causing the initial dying. Now it stumbles while starting moving after a stop, and when at low rpm while cruising. I couldn't help but think that it was a vacuum issue. I would like to do a motor swap, but that's not in the cards at the moment or anytime soon. I would like to fix this problem and run what i got. Any ideas would help. Ive tried a lot but will not give up. Thanks everyone $:-\$

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #1 on:** Oct 03, 2016, 08:14:50 AM »

So the fuel cut has 12V to it but is it still good? It should click when you put 12V to it. This really does sound like a fuel cut solenoid issue.

Have you ruled out the stupid stuff like fuel filter, fuel pump working right, carb adjustments, good spark?

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #2 on:** Oct 03, 2016, 08:34:22 AM »

Also another groaner my buddy just had was his distributor was put in one tooth off. His truck ran but idled lousy and died.

Gnarly4X · « **Reply #3 on:** Oct 03, 2016, 08:57:05 AM »

Sounds like A/F issue. Could be a carb issue, my first guess is the accelerator pump.

Gnarls.

Mudder · « **Reply #4 on:** Oct 03, 2016, 09:35:53 AM »

Did you adjust the carb after rebuilding it?

:)bestgen4runner · « **Reply #5 on:** Oct 03, 2016, 01:48:03 PM »

Easy answer. WEBER!

Taylor87 · « **Reply #6 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 04:44:13 PM »

Filter has not been replaced, pump is working fine, carb was adjusted, has great spark, solenoid seems to be working fine, will be checking the dist. gear soon, I havent found a webber that is street legal yet, but thats what i would like to do. Im in calif. and i drive it a lot.

:)bestgen4runner · « **Reply #7 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 06:59:23 PM »

Here You go!

http://www.lceperformance.com/22R-Weber-32-36-Carburetor-Kit-81-84-Smog-Legal-p/1030063.htm

Mudder · « **Reply #8 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 07:29:33 PM »

It'll run like crap unless you put a fuel pressure regulator on it and adjust it to 5psi

Gnarly4X · « **Reply #9 on:** Oct 05, 2016, 04:05:39 AM »

Quote from: Taylor87 on Oct 04, 2016, 04:44:13 PM

Filter has not been replaced, pump is working fine, carb was adjusted, has great spark, solenoid seems to be working fine, will be checking the dist. gear soon, I havent found a webber that is street legal yet, but thats what i would like to do. Im in calif. and i drive it a lot.

OK, help me understand what a "stumble" is.

Does it feel like it's running out of fuel, or does it feel like it's mis-firing - no spark?

A plugged fuel filter will usually cause an engine miss during higher RPMs - lack of fuel.

A spark miss can happen at idle, during acceleration, or at cruise RPMs.

A stumble from off-idle can be caused by the accelerator pump not pumping a full stream of gas into the venturi. Usually the rubber diaphram gets a hole in it. Since the carb has been rebuilt, it should have a new accelerator pump. With the engine off, you can check that by simply looking down at the venturi while slowly turning the throttle through full rotation to see if a full and unbroken stream of fuel is being pumped into the venturi immediately as you start to rotate the throttle linkage.

How confident are you that the carb was rebuild properly and very cleanly? Is the float level correct? Have you checked for any vacuum leaks? How are the spark plugs, plug wires, cap and rotor? Have you re-checked to make sure the plug wires are seated firmly in the disty cap and on the spark plugs?

The mechanical stock fuel pump can *partially* fail to pump sufficient fuel, but usually will cause a stumble at higher RPM. When they completely fail, you will see fuel being pumped out the vent hole on the fuel pump. It will typically make a very noticeable clatter sound similar to loose rocker adjustment.

Since H8PVMNT is doing a "study" on the 22R carb, he might want to jump back in here.

Gnarls.

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #10 on:** Oct 05, 2016, 07:57:05 AM »

Gnarls gives me too much credit, I am studying, I'm not the professor yet though

.

Last time I had this issue, as I understand it, it was a bad lead to the fuel cut solenoid on my 20r carb. Accelerator pump could be a good place to look, I agree with that. Float level is a good one, but I have found it's hard to screw that up. I would also look at the basic carb settings like the idle speed and idle mixture. Just adjust the mixture or idle speed up and see if it will run steady at too high of an RPM at least. Then you can pull it back slowly with the ignition timing and see what happens.

I have to run thicker mixture, higher idle speed and slightly more advance to get the good below zero cold start in the winter. Then I re-tune in the spring time. The point is don't be afraid to mess with these things. The factory settings are more like guidelines than rules.

Vac leaks usually cause a high crummy idle in my experience and poor running but not no running and stalling. I haven't seen it all though. Vac line by the foot is pretty cheap so you might want to just replace all those 30 year old petrified vac lines with new stuff and see if it helps.

I'd replace that fuel filter and really consider the fuel pump anyway. Maybe swap to a known good spare and see what happens. I've had a stumbly/no idle condition from both plugged fuel filter and slightly bad fuel pump. The fuel pump gets more action at higher RPM so it can actually get it at high RPM and not at low, oddly enough, if it's lame but not obviously broken bad.

I even had a slightly bad ignitor do this once. I had spark, and it would run above 3,000 RPM but it would not idle or run at low RPM.

I'm really reaching with this one... The only other odd thing in the stock 22r stuff is the little deal that runs of vacuum that cuts the fuel a bit on decal to avoid after-fire. It's the "what is that thing" in the lower portion of your filter box that has a vac line to it. I've never had a problem with it but I guess it could cut your fuel at the wrong time if it was hooked up wrong or faulty.

Gotta just start ruling things out one at a time.

Taylor87 · « **Reply #11 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 08:31:00 AM »

Gnarly4X, the stumble feels like all of those. Like lack of fuel, Like a missfire and sputtering at cruise, like off idle miss, sometimes sputters off idle like a lack of fuel. Im pretty confident that the rebuild was done well. I have checked for vacuum leaks, fixed the one, no improvement. I replaced the filter, no improvement. I will have to check all the spark plugs and wires again.

Weber carb kit from LCE, i have an 87, and that one is for the 81-84.

Gnarly4X · « **Reply #12 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 12:40:15 PM »

Taylor87

Have checked the fuel pump? You can test it by disconnecting the fuel line from the pump to the carb. You'll need to capture the fuel coming out of the pump, so put the hose in a plastic bottle, seal it so it can't spray out on you.
Have someone turn the engine over with the starter and see how much fuel is being pumped and if it look consistent.

The stumble sounds fuel related. If the float level in the carb is too low, it may be running out fuel at the metering jets, the mixture will go lean. If the float level is too high, the float bowl will flood and the mixture will be too rich and choke the engine. Have you pulled the spark plugs to see if they are getting a lean mixture (white-ish color) or a rich mixture (black carbon color)?

If we can eliminate the fuel mixture issue, then we only have spark, or possibly a more serious mechanical issue.

Is the gas fresh? .... not really old fuel?

I'm just thinking out loud.

Gnarls.

Taylor87 · « **Reply #13 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 02:30:01 PM »

Gnarls, Thank you. I'll be checking the plugs asap. I dont have a lot of time due to a bad land lord, but thats another story.

Taylor87 · « **Reply #14 on:** Oct 11, 2016, 12:36:00 PM »

I checked the plugs and they're all good, cap and rotor too. I'm going to see if my buddy can check it out while I'm gone all next week. Hes the man when it comes to this stuff. FRDHTR. I'm still hoping its nothing major. Doesn't seem like it is. fingers crossed.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #15 on:** Oct 11, 2016, 04:32:53 PM »

Quote from: Taylor87 on Oct 06, 2016, 08:31:00 AM

Gnarly4X, the stumble feels like all of those. Like lack of fuel, Like a missfire and sputtering at cruise, like off idle miss, sometimes sputters off idle like a lack of fuel. Im pretty confident that the rebuild was done well. I have checked for vacuum leaks, fixed the one, no improvement. I replaced the filter, no improvement. I will have to check all the spark plugs and wires again.

Weber carb kit from LCE, i have an 87, and that one is for the 81-84.

doesnt matter the bolt pattern is the same.

It sounds to me like the cam timing is off one tooth. make sure number one piston is at tdc, pull the valve cover and then look at the cam dowel. it should be at 12 oclock, the timing gear timing mark should be at 11:50. in other words about 1 tooth left or passenger side of 12 o clock

Gnarly4X · « **Reply #16 on:** Oct 15, 2016, 04:49:39 AM »

Are we still stumbling??

Gnarls.

Taylor87 · « **Reply #17 on:** Oct 27, 2016, 09:27:33 AM »

Sorry its been a while, ive been driving our xterra. I will check it out this weekend and get back to you. Is there anything with the weber as far as all the electrical that i would need to modify or switch in order to pass smog?

Gnarly4X · « **Reply #18 on:** Oct 27, 2016, 12:41:13 PM »

Quote from: Taylor87 on Oct 27, 2016, 09:27:33 AM

Sorry its been a while, ive been driving our xterra. I will check it out this weekend and get back to you. Is there anything with the weber as far as all the electrical that i would need to modify or switch in order to pass smog?

geezz... it's been a loooong time since I ran Webers, but I think there is only one 12V (switched on with ignition switch) wire to it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkqKENrru1g

Gnarls.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #19 on:** Oct 28, 2016, 11:56:28 PM »

Quote from: Taylor87 on Oct 27, 2016, 09:27:33 AM

Sorry its been a while, ive been driving our xterra. I will check it out this weekend and get back to you. Is there anything with the weber as far as all the electrical that i would need to modify or switch in order to pass smog?

smog??

Taylor87 · « **Reply #20 on:** Oct 31, 2016, 10:07:06 AM »

Because im in California, and it sucks.

Taylor87 · « **Reply #21 on:** Oct 31, 2016, 10:08:43 AM »

To anyone, would there be any reason that this issue would be coming from a bad alternator? Just throwing it out there.

Taylor87 · « **Reply #22 on:** Nov 10, 2016, 03:09:57 PM »

I replaced the all vacuum hoses visible in the engine bay. All the power is there but the truck still hesitates from a stop. Was thinking about doing the cap, rotor plugs, and wires. They all seem to be fine. Anybody have any idea what it could be? Ive had a few friends say, new carb. But if i don't have to spend the money i don't want to. Plus findin a new one is next to impossible for a good price. I don't know who to trust with a rebuilt. Ive seen garunteedcarburetors.com has them at a good price, most reviews are good. That's all i really have to go on. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

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