Topic: Hard start in mornings

[Gnarly4X]

Mudder......    What's the latest?  No news is good news??

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

I haven't driven her in two days actually. Just going to pull the EFI fuse for the night and I'll put it back in the morning. I always make sure to pop to hood every morning before I start it to check the oil.

[Mudder [OP]]

Took about 2 minutes for it to start today. I let it sit for 3 days and it got down to at least 50 last night. But I did get an engine code which I'll pull in about an hour or so.

[Mudder [OP]]

Code 22 is what it was. How ironic that it's the coolant temp sensor, the one in the truck is from LCE. Luckily I had a spare, we'll see what it does in the morning.

[Mudder [OP]]

Just so people don't think I'm anti-LCE. Here's my problem with them. I ordered a block from them when mine blew up as I had no way of getting one machined in a timely manner (7 weeks just to have a head decked) It took them over two weeks to ship the block which was kind of annoying but I understand it's a big order and they probably had to do some machining. I then got the block and the crankshaft that had came was a .010/.010 crankshaft, which the part number isn't listed on their site so I had ordered std. bearings. Not a big deal, they sent me new bearings free of charge, once I got those in (Another week) I put them in and guess what, they will not come into specs. Well someone had put a .020/.020 crank in a .010/.010 box. Now I didn't have the time to wait another week so I got them locally and contacted LCE about it. Side note, I had three months to build and break in an engine while working 14 hour days before I left for school so you can understand that at this point it's July and it's still not done.

I assembled the block and everything was going great and I ended up breaking a piston ring. Now I had to actually call them because they didn't bother to tell me the block was bored .030 over for the pistons which made me mad. Now they do have great customer service and helped me and when my injectors got lost they knocked the price down on the ones I ordered from them since I had to buy the bearings. But I've had one OPS go out from them and now a Water temp sensor. That's why I'm skeptical of their stuff now.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Don't be sure it's the sensor. There are pins and very old wire between the sensor and ecu.
As these trucks get older the harnesses are as suspect as any sensor.

[Mudder [OP]]

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy LCE and will still shop there. With the new sensor it started a little bit better even though it's just as cold out.

[Gnarly4X]

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy LCE and will still shop there. With the new sensor it started a little bit better even though it's just as cold out.

Just so people don't think I'm anti-LCE. Here's my problem with them. I ordered a block from them when mine blew up as I had no way of getting one machined in a timely manner (7 weeks just to have a head decked) It took them over two weeks to ship the block which was kind of annoying but I understand it's a big order and they probably had to do some machining. I then got the block and the crankshaft that had came was a .010/.010 crankshaft, which the part number isn't listed on their site so I had ordered std. bearings. Not a big deal, they sent me new bearings free of charge, once I got those in (Another week) I put them in and guess what, they will not come into specs. Well someone had put a .020/.020 crank in a .010/.010 box. Now I didn't have the time to wait another week so I got them locally and contacted LCE about it. Side note, I had three months to build and break in an engine while working 14 hour days before I left for school so you can understand that at this point it's July and it's still not done.

I assembled the block and everything was going great and I ended up breaking a piston ring. Now I had to actually call them because they didn't bother to tell me the block was bored .030 over for the pistons which made me mad. Now they do have great customer service and helped me and when my injectors got lost they knocked the price down on the ones I ordered from them since I had to buy the bearings. But I've had one OPS go out from them and now a Water temp sensor. That's why I'm skeptical of their stuff now.

There's only about 12 main components with specific blue print specifications that you need to assemble a 22 short block.  The tolerance specs are all in black and white, the machines are all pre-programmed and mostly automatic, and it's just metal.

It's difficult to imagine a business who sells or machines the product cannot be accurate with those 12 parts.  It's not like they are having to pull parts from a parts list to assemble a Samsung S7!

When Tom Peters "In Search of Excellence" discovered what makes leading companies in their field an exceptional company, he said it was 3 things... Customer Service, Customer Service, and Customer Service.

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Every business in existence has the same business mold. Cheep, fast, good. Pick two and you can describe any business. when they try to do all three is when things start to go down hill.

[Gnarly4X]

Every business in existence has the same business mold. Cheep, fast, good. Pick two and you can describe any business. when they try to do all three is when things start to go down hill.

Wellllll..... hmmmm.... I don't know about that....  There are some different business models out there.  Now sometimes we may feel like they all treat us the same so they look the same.

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Are you thinking of trail gear?

[Gnarly4X]

Are you thinking of trail gear?

No, not necessarily.... just in general.

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

Well what I ordered wasn't cheap, which is why I ordered it. I didn't want a 3rd bad motor. As I said I didn't mind the two week wait just wish that communication had been better to inform me. It was the other problems that got to me. I still will shop at LCE, don't get me wrong they're a good company. I just didn't want you guys to think I'm iffy with them for no reason.

 As for the pins they're new as I had to replace the plug and the plugs coming out fine. My CSTTS will be here tomorrow and I hope that completely solves it.

[OVRAROK]

communication, I think is the biggest problem with most companies, quick to take your cash, but then they somehow forget about you, or there to busy selling to the next guy. I would like it if they told me a date, and it arrived early. I mean he's the guy telling me "X" amount of time. tell me 2 weeks later then you think its going to get here. this way if there's problems on there side. they can address and fix before said due date. even better, getting my product earlier then anticipated date

[Gnarly4X]

communication, I think is the biggest problem with most companies, quick to take your cash, but then they somehow forget about you, or there to busy selling to the next guy. I would like it if they told me a date, and it arrived early. I mean he's the guy telling me "X" amount of time. tell me 2 weeks later then you think its going to get here. this way if there's problems on there side. they can address and fix before said due date. even better, getting my product earlier then anticipated date

Yes, communications is one of the biggest failures of businesses today.

Under promise and over deliver is an extraordinary business practice.  Some years back I purchased lots of computers from Dell.  They always quoted me 2 weeks delivery to my dock.  The boxes were always delivered in 4 to 6 days!

There are many factors and aspects to commerce and more with e-commerce.

Part of the best practices are also on the consumer's side.  Being a savvy consumer should be a priority today to protect yourself against those who will cheat and scam you.

If you ask the right questions, are not a butt-head with the person you're speaking with, or you do some basic research on the reputation of the company or business, you should get a pretty good idea what to expect.

That's just my worthless opinion based on my 40+ year professional background in business development, technical sales, marketing, advertising, and customer service, and owning my own consulting company for about 5 years.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

.... My CSTTS will be here tomorrow and I hope that completely solves it.

If the CSTTS does not fix the problem, I may have to go on a Valium drip!! 


Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

If the CSTTS does not fix the problem, I may have to go on a Valium drip!! 


Gnarls.

I'm really hoping it does. Currently there's another problem piping it's head up, now in the mornings when shifting from first gear to second and getting back on the gas there's a slight hesitation but only when cold. Since I had noticed this yesterday I jumped the fuel pump today to make sure it wasn't that and there was no difference.

[Gnarly4X]

I'm really hoping it does. Currently there's another problem piping it's head up, now in the mornings when shifting from first gear to second and getting back on the gas there's a slight hesitation but only when cold. Since I had noticed this yesterday I jumped the fuel pump today to make sure it wasn't that and there was no difference.

Hi Mudder,

In an effort to possibly help figure out what's happening with your engine.... I would go back to checking out your Throttle Position Sensor, and re-check that it's working properly and re-check the adjustment carefully.  When I recently removed it from my throttle body as I cleaned my TB, I discovered the screws were loose.  I don't think they were loose enough to actually change it's position, but I was surprised the screws were not sufficiently tight.

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

I do believe the new CSTTS fixed the problem. If not then I'm ordering a megasquirt DIYPNP ECU and just going stand alone so by-pass Toyota's cold start system.

[Gnarly4X]

I do believe the new CSTTS fixed the problem. If not then I'm ordering a megasquirt DIYPNP ECU and just going stand alone so by-pass Toyota's cold start system.

OOOOMMGGG!!!!  Please.... tell me for sure it's fixed!!  I was starting to lose sleep over this! ...LOL   

Seriously... did it start right up from a cold start? 

Gnarls. 

[Mudder [OP]]

OOOOMMGGG!!!!  Please.... tell me for sure it's fixed!!  I was starting to lose sleep over this! ...LOL   

Seriously... did it start right up from a cold start? 

Gnarls. 

Well it started good today, but tomorrow will for sure let me know as it'll be down in the 50's tonight. WHen I first installed it the next morning it started like it should, but then a few hours latter I had problems with it starting. Not sure if it was the ECU trying to relearn things that caused it or not.

[:)bestgen4runner]

  What year is the truck. There is a countermeasure cold start timer switch and also a countermeasure coolant temp sensor that toyota offered. some of the trucks needed it.
Toyota still offers both the original and the countermeasure. If you search you can find the very old tsb. 

[Gnarly4X]

What year is the truck. There is a countermeasure cold start timer switch and also a countermeasure coolant temp sensor that toyota offered. some of the trucks needed it.
Toyota still offers both the original and the countermeasure. If you search you can find the very old tsb. 

I believe Mudder said it was starting fine in cold temps, but suddenly would not start.

Going back my original comment... and assuming the starter is turning the engine over at sufficient RPMs.....a starting issue is usually fuel or spark.  Either the A/F mixture is too lean or too rich.  Or... there is insufficient spark (fouled spark plugs, bad cap, rotor, wires) at the proper ignition timing (ignition timing way off).  Another condition for slow starting could be insufficient or very low compression (rings, valves, cam timing).

As I mentioned, my first 1986 22RE (purchased in 1986) always started up immediately without me touching the gas pedal, and it did that no matter what the ambient air temperature was.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Mudder said... "Currently there's another problem piping it's head up, now in the mornings when shifting from first gear to second and getting back on the gas there's a slight hesitation but only when cold."

This could be lean or rich mixture, or TPS adjustment. 

Based on Mudder's comments, it sounds like everything on the engine is fresh... plugs, cap, rotor, wires, etc.

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

The hesitation when away when I changed to yet another new coolant temp sensor. Which was logical to me because it only appeared after I changed out coolant temp sensors the first time. Bestgen, it's all 1989 22re stuff and it seems to be starting fine now but it didn't get below 60 last night so I'm still not calling it solved yet.

[Mudder [OP]]

It sure enough was the CSTTS, new one in and haven't had a problem anymore thankfully.

[Gnarly4X]

It sure enough was the CSTTS, new one in and haven't had a problem anymore thankfully.

Coool Beeeeeans!!  Geez... I can sleep good tonight!

Got A/C now too.

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

Coool Beeeeeans!!  Geez... I can sleep good tonight!

Got A/C now too.

Gnarls.

I'm glad to hear you got A/C back!

[Gnarly4X]

I'm glad to hear you got A/C back!

Well Mudder..... you should sleep better tonight.   

When your truck is happy, you're happy!

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Mudder,

I was going to ask you after you installed the new  Cold Start Thermo-time Switch (cold start injector switch), but I forget.  If you still have it, I'm interested in knowing what the ohm reading is on the one that failed, and on the new one.  Mine is reading 47.8 Ohms.

Thanks,

Gnarls.