Topic: Hard start in mornings

[Mudder]

Yes, I've done reading on this and I think I have it figured out. But before I spend money I wanted to see what your guys thought. My truck is having problems starting only in the morning. I can let it sit for 8 hours in the day time and it'll start just fine. So I did the tests on the CSI and Thermo Switch and the CSI was bad so I bought a remaned one and it somewhat helped the problem. Now when I go to start it I crank it for about 10 seconds and it won't start so I give it a break and when I go to crank it again it starts up perfectly. Now I know it isn't bad wiring as I've been through the harness more times then I'd like to say.

Which brings me to what I think. It sounds like it could be a bad fuel pressure regulator but that doesn't explain why it's fine during the day. Which means it could be the Thermo Switch but that tested out fine. This truck runs like a champ after she starts up. No bad running for 10 seconds or so like in the other threads.

I am very limited on what I can actually do as I have moved states and am living in an apartment complex now and I don't feel like being kicked out. AN I don't have the funds to pay someone o figure it out either.

Anyone else have input?

[OTO Phil]

This is on a 22re?

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

[Mudder [OP]]

You beat me to it. I Was about to update the thread as it is a 22re.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Mudder,

So you know there are two things needed to fire an engine.... A/F mixture and spark.  I think most starting issues are fuel related.

Have you tried not touching the gas peddle, turning the ignition switch on, wait 20 seconds, count them, then turn the starter?

Gnarls.

[SqWADoosh]

Whenever I had this issue back when I had a 22RE the only thing that ever fixed it was when I deep cleaned my throttle body. Don't know what in particular needed cleaning as I cleaned the plate, all the passages, etc.

[Mudder [OP]]

Throttle body is cleaned as I did  it while waiting for engine parts.
TPS is good as I just adjusted it a few weeks ago.
New IACV as my old one took a dump.
AFM is good as I was tracking down another issue and had to check it out.
Battery is wonderful, it's an exide AGM that's barely a year old.
EGR is hooked up but nothing going to it as I lost one of the block off plates.
I replaced the coolant temp sensor a little while ago and it's still good.
Injectors were just freshly rebuilt. I think tomorrow before I start it I'll crack the cold start injector line to see if anything comes out.

Gnarly, I waited 20 seconds and it did start a little bit better. But it was 10* warmer this morning. I just ordered a time switch as mine it cracking near where the connector attaches to the base. I never noticed that before so I really hope it's my problem.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Mudder,

Check out the connector to the CSI.

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/symptoms-of-a-bad-or-failing-cold-start-injector

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

CSI connector is good as I tested it when I tested the CSI, which was bad so I replaced that. But I'll double check it later today hopefully.

[Gnarly4X]

OK, well... it could be a vacuum problem.  Is it sucking air somewhere?

Have you power-washed your engine recently or used any kind of engine degreaser? Possibly causing a bad connection issue.

Have you checked all the wires and connectors to the sensors?

I'm just thinking out loud?? 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Mudder,

You might also pull the fuses and push them back in.  You might disconnect the round connectors and clean the contacts with a can of spray electronic contact cleaner.

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

I haven't washed the engine bay with high pressure for a while as it seemed every time I did an alternator went out!

I'll do the fuse thing and pick up a can of CRC today and see if that helps.

The wiring connections are good as I just had this harness open a little bit ago to solder all the fuel injector grounds.

Vacuum lines are good, I just replaced the fuel pressure reg vacuum line today as it was getting old and I went through my intake tube when I got a tank of bad gas making sure it wasn't a vacuum leak.

I also have bled the coolant system to make sure there was no air left in it. The part the frustrates me is that this issue came up out of nowhere.

[:)bestgen4runner]

 

[emsvitil]

With age,  the fuel pressure leaks out overnight.    So in the morning you don't have any fuel flow until pressure builds up.

Hey Mudder,

So you know there are two things needed to fire an engine.... A/F mixture and spark.  I think most starting issues are fuel related.

Have you tried not touching the gas peddle, turning the ignition switch on, wait 20 seconds, count them, then turn the starter?

Gnarls.

That trick doesn't work on a 22RE.......

The fuel pump doesn't turn on with the ignition.    There needs to be some airflow before the fuel pump turns on (i.e. cranking)....

But there is a trick....

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/index.shtml#FuelPump


I automated the jumper wire by using a BIG capacitor instead.   When you first turn on the ignition and before the capacitor is charged it acts like the jumper wire.     Fuel pump runs about 15 seconds and turns off when capacitor get charged up.....

[Gnarly4X]

I've seen Roger's trick before. His contributions have been incredible!

My first 1986 22RE fired up instantly EVERY single time, in freezing temps or 120d F in the summer.  I never had to touch the gas pedal..just turned the key.

Roger's trick is a "fix", but I'm curious about WHAT caused Mudder's engine to not want to start? 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Mudder,

The ECU should be powered up when the ignition switch is turned "on", and "seeing" all the sensors.  If it got clitched or caught some garbled data, it might just need to be reset.  I know I'm just pulling straws out of my butt.... but I would disconnect the battery, wait 5 minutes and reconnect the battery.  I realize you may loose your radio settings.

Gnarls. 

[79coyotefrg]

sounds like you need new injector seals

[Mudder [OP]]

sounds like you need new injector seals

I hope not. I just got these maybe a month and a half ago from LCE. AN needless to say if I have to return these it may be the last time I do business with them.

Gnarly, I'll try that next week after I install the new cold start thermo time switch I ordered since there's a crack in the plastic on mine.

emsvitil, I'll jump Bp and F+ (or whatever it is) tomorrow morning and see if that does the trick. If so then I'd have to agree with 79coyotefrg about the injector seals being bad as it shouldn't lose pressure since in theory it's a closed system. But I know it could also be a bad fuel pump or FPR.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Mudder,

How fresh is your O2 sensor?

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

If there's a pressure loss, it could be the fuel pump; and the injectors are fine.

I don't think there's a check valve in the system.

[Gnarly4X]

... after I install the new cold start thermo time switch I ordered since there's a crack in the plastic on mine.

Hey Mudder,

Why do you think the CSTTS is bad?  Did you test it with an Ohm meter?

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

Hey Mudder,

Why do you think the CSTTS is bad?  Did you test it with an Ohm meter?

Gnarls.

I don't believe it is bad. But with it showing its age and the plastic cracking I'd rather replace it before it goes out. I know Salt Lake gets cold in the winter and last thing I need is my truck to not start when I'm trying to get to school.

O2 sensor isn't even 2k miles old, I replaced it as part of my new engine maintenance.

emsvitil, wouldn't a bad fuel pump cause problems all the time though? It's only starting in the mornings that give me problems. THroughout the rest of the day it's fine. I cleaned the contacts and such and will see how it is in the morning when I jumper the fuel pump connectors at the diagnostics box.

[emsvitil]

If you lose fuel pressure overnight (leakage back thru the pump), the injectors won't work until there's pressure again.

Once the pump is spinning, it's fine.............

[Mudder [OP]]

If you lose fuel pressure overnight (leakage back thru the pump), the injectors won't work until there's pressure again.

Once the pump is spinning, it's fine.............

I didn't even think of that. I guess tomorrow I'd find out since I'll jumper the two connections. If it starts right away I'll be really happy and I'll save up money to order in a new fuel pump and see if I can find someone to help me install it.

[emsvitil]

I didn't even think of that. I guess tomorrow I'd find out since I'll jumper the two connections. If it starts right away I'll be really happy and I'll save up money to order in a new fuel pump and see if I can find someone to help me install it.

Or do my capacitor trick...............much cheaper and easier........

[emsvitil]

BTW, I fixed my cold start timer.........

http://s957.photobucket.com/user/emsvitil/library/M20%20Toyota%20Cold%20Start%20Timer%20Fix?sort=2&page=1

[Mudder [OP]]

I had read your right up. But I think I may have caused it to crack when hooking stuff up as it's cracking near the base. So it's where the plastic mates with the metal. And I will do your idea for now. I just don't want to be driving home (600 miles away) and have the pump crap out on the side of the road.

[emsvitil]

Capacitor is 38000 MFD @ 15v that I got from a surplus store (I'm thinking $2)

Been in the truck for over 10 years.

[Mudder [OP]]

I don't believe it's the fuel pump. I jumped the terminals this morning and have it 10 seconds and it still had hard starting. The fuel pump actually seemed to have made it worse.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Mudder,

My gut feeling says it's a fuel thing and it's not getting enough fuel/air mixture to fire. 

A spark thing will usually show up before, during, and after firing.

Based upon what you have done to this rebuild, you have probably installed a new gas filter.

Have you disconnected the banjo gas fitting to see if you are getting fuel to the cold start injector and you have ohmed the terminals on the thermo time switch?

Did you disconnect the battery to see if the ECU will reset and possibly clear any bad sensor data?

I'm still trying to figure it out??

Gnarls.

[Mudder [OP]]

Hey Mudder,

My gut feeling says it's a fuel thing and it's not getting enough fuel/air mixture to fire. 

A spark thing will usually show up before, during, and after firing.

Based upon what you have done to this rebuild, you have probably installed a new gas filter.

Have you disconnected the banjo gas fitting to see if you are getting fuel to the cold start injector and you have ohmed the terminals on the thermo time switch?

Did you disconnect the battery to see if the ECU will reset and possibly clear any bad sensor data?

I'm still trying to figure it out??

Gnarls.

Fuel is getting to the cold start. I do have a new fuel filter as I go a bad tank of gas a couple weeks ago but this problem has been going on before then. I plan on rechecking the CSTTS this weekend along with unhooking the battery.