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let me know the specs, lift, duration, lobe center lines and stuff.
Changing the ring & pinion would provide a gearing advantage so having more power might not be necessary. The goal is better overall performance.
I guess it's just a matter of perspective. But, just looking at the math, and cost per increase in power.... Spending $600 for ring & pinions and 8 hours to move my 149 lbs of peak stock torque up to 3400 RPMs is not the same as spending $112 and 2 hours to gain 2 to 5 lbs of added torque between 2900 and 3400 RPM. Also there will be a great advantage of increased torque and HP from 2900 RPM to 5900 RPM! - not that I'd tac it to 5,900 very often. Before this rebuild, I took my truck to 5 grand every day getting on freeway in 1st and 2nd gears. Having 10 lbs of extra torque and 8 HP at 5,000 RPM will be a huge difference in throttle response!! When passing and dropping down to 4th gear, I will have a very noticeable increase in throttle response and power over the stock numbers. When driving on steep long upgrades, it will be nice not to have to shift down the 3rd gear and keep the engine at 4,500 RPM for 5 minutes.Since the power curve, especially torque numbers, for a stock 22RE starts dropping significantly after about 3600, with lower ratio R&Ps I may run out of RPMs before I reach my desired MPH in every gear.TJMWO. Gnarls.
79coyotefrg, Do you want to know the profile specs for engbldr 261C cam??I would like to know the cam specs on the camshaft you noted in your video clip...."LCE's Stage 2 racing cam. thats 290* duration and .460 lift."In my past research on camshafts, I've noticed that some supplier's advertised specs are wrong, and sometimes change from what is advertised when you go to buy one, even though their part number is the same.Thanks,Gnarls.
Do both in parallel and I'd guess the performance gained from regearing would be a more significant improvement. You're looking at a smaller change so it might be closer than trying to add power to make up for a significant tire size upgrade.
But if we're talking about drop in cam's 79coyotefrg's is not the one for you. You'd have to run LCE's kit to beef up your head and then get the valve guides honed for proper clearance. But it is a wonderful cam.
Hi Snowtoy,LOL…. Your posts read like a person possibly with H.A.S. (Hyper Analytical Syndrome)… I have it. It’s not necessarily a bad thing and seems to be found more often in people with extra brain cells and higher I.Qs.
I did not know about tire sizes not being actual?
I’m sure you’ve watched a funny car burn out. You noticed the tire diameter expanding radically. That’s what happens, to a lesser degree, to tires running down the freeway at 75 MPH. Right now my 31” BFGs measure 30” diameter, but they have been sitting for 3 ½ years, and may be a little low on air pressure? I’d make a good guess that if I could measure my tire diameter at 75 MPH that they would be more that 31” in diameter?
At 80 MPH my 31s are running down the freeway at about 15 revolutions per second, and in this Arizona 100+ air temp, plus the pavement will get 170+ degree F, I would think that BFG rubber is expanding.
Your idea to “buy-low-swap-sell-salvage” is not a bad idea, but at my age my clock is speeding up and I’m much more lazy and slower than I was at age 42 - which was my peak! :-
With both my 22R/RE pickups, I never changed the ring & pinion, just ran the stock 4.10s. I ran 33s on my 85 22R and that did cause a gear ratio issue. 1st gear starts were sluggish and 5th gear was sometimes not useable, and had to use 4th. But, I got used to it. Since I had lockers front and rear and Marlin Crawler, doing a R&P swap would have been the hot ticket, looking back I’m not sure why I did not.
As I mentioned, yes, a R&P change to lower gearing will be noticeable on your butt dyno, and can move the peak torque to a more useable RPM, BUT…. it still doesn’t increase any power.On doing an R&R on camshaft, I have only done that while doing a head job. We have read about guys that have done it without any issues with the head gasket.It would interesting if the guys that have done cam swaps without moving the head, could comment on that, as I would like to do some cam swaps and dyno tests in the future with my truck. R&Ring a head on 22RE is WAAAYYY more time consuming compared to just removing the rocker cover, removing the cam sprocket, un-torquing the head bolts, lifting the rocker rack, removing the 3 cam bearing caps, lifting off the camshaft, and then re-assembling. I could be wrong about that, but that’s how I envision it.Gnarls.
I'm looking for as big a power increase as I can get for the buck, and specifically in torque.Not to beat up the topic, but it is an interesting discussion.... Regearing would not give me any more power. I can use 4th gear to get the RPM up to a higher torque number.Spending the money for a gear change, would not be my first choice. I'd rather spend $112 for the cam, and $600 for a header, 2.25" exhaust tubing, a free flow cat, and a turbo muffler. THEN, I'd have the increased power I want and would not need to change my gear ratio.Gnarls.
Hey Mudder,In the past, I have not been a big fan of LCE's cams, although they may be excellent profiles. That profile appears to move the total cam timing 8 degrees advanced with the 102 and 118 lobe centers. That profile would not be one of my choices for this engine rebuild. But... just for grins I'll run some numbers on it and see what it shows.Gnarls.
a few years ago.... We crested that hill at 45mph and when I double clutched to 4th gear she told me via CB that cresting that long hill under that load I was shooting 3 feet of flame from my exhaust. I grinned and mashed on it. never hit a hill on the way back here that I needed to drop out of 4th.
um you sure about that? because I've been running this cam for 14 years in a 20R head and a 22R head and Ive never used any "beef kit" and no you dont have to 'hone' the valve guides. where did you hear that?? the ONLY thing I had to do with this cam is some clearancing of the pistons.
Quoted that directly off of LCE's site. It says "WARNING: LCE highly recommends using our Pro Camshaft Kit Part# 1020000 in order to allow proper spring retainer to guide clearance for any cam that has over .450" lift or in any application that requires a sustained RPM of 6,000 or higher" and that cam has .460 of lift. It also says on their site to hone valve guides to proper clearance.
I'm running a freshly rebuilt engine , 31's, 261 C cam, chromoly connecting rods, and have 4.56's. I can run ,70 all day long in 4th gear below 4k rpm's. I will be interested in seeing how it does on my next trip to Salem. I took my last engine down there before it snapped a rod. I still have the stock exhaust and my timing is set at 8* BTDC.
.. that no amount of power upgrades will take the place of proper gearing....
.... I am pretty interested to hear your driving impressions of the 261C and your setup.
Hey 79coyotefrg,You have my curiosity working here. So you were in 5th gear at 45 MPH before cresting the hill and then shifted down to 4th gear?Would you mind helping me with details on your truck?I read about your LCE cam and you're running a Weber 32/36 - what else have you done to your engine?What is your ring & pinion? What size tires and rims are you running?I did a very quick check on that cam and your engine based on your initial comments and it looks like it produces some very big torque and HP numbers in the higher RPM range. I would like to plug in some more accurate data and then do some mock pulls on my dyno software. Then, if you want, we can compare your "BD" (butt dyno) with my "DD" (desktop dyno). Thanks,Gnarls.
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