Topic: So I accidentally bring a knife to school...

[lilbuddy]

Ok, so this morning when I go to school, all my friends and I parked up on this large curb, so like 10 vehicles are up on this curb (actually looks pretty cool). Even my friend with a Mazda 626 parks it up there... Anyway,  I know for a fact both my doors and windows are rolled up and the doors are locked.

So lunch is between 4th and 5th period... I walk out to my truck, my window is rolled down, I just go "aww CRAP!" and I hear bubbles (yard person) yell "Hey!" So I go over to her, and shes a pretty short lady, and kinda large. She goes, Is that your truck. I go, Yeah....  Are you a freshman, I go, No.... She said, I found a weapon in your truck. And I go, let me guess, a greenish Gerber Knife inside, Right? She goes, Yes. Do you realize you can get expelled for that? I go, yeah, I went 4 wheelin last sunday, and totally forgot it was in there. And I say, well Where is it now. She goes, in the back of my car. I say, well when Can I get it back... She says, when I am doing detention after school in B-3. I go, Ok ill come get it round 3. Then I say, well how did you get into my truck. The doors were unlocked she said. I said, That is a Lie because I lock my doors every time, and my friend even checks them. She doesnt say anything... Then I go, well how legal is it for you to go inside my truck without my permission? She says, well its on school property, I can go in it if I want.

She never said anything after that... So I walk off to my truck and go to lunch. At this point, I was furious. She went into my truck illegally, took something out, and I was not informed till 3 hrs later....

After school, I went to the principal about this and ask, how legal it is for her to go in it. I kept saying, regardless if the truck doors are locked or not, you can not go into my personal property, look around, and take something out.  The principal kept saying, well you had a weapon in your truck and that is illegal on campus... blah blah blah. My counter argument was of course, If your car doors were unlocked on my property, I have the right to search your car without your permission. Before she could say anything, I got, OF COURSE NOT! And throughout this conversation she kept getting more mad and saying, you realize I can expell you right now? Welll, yeah but still she went into my truck. Anyway I get the knife back, AND WALK AROUND CAMPUS WITH IT TILL I GET BACK TO MY TRUCK!!! NOW that is complete :bull crap: I cant have it in a locked pickup, yet I can walk to it in my pocket...

The reason I said, she is a short large lady... is that the place it was in, no way in hell she could have seen it without first opening my door and looking around in there. My mom is about the same shortness as the woman, and i put the knife in teh exact spot, and even when my mom got up and attempted to look, she could not see it. The thing is that my truck was backed up onto a tall curb, which of course, made it even higher. And for some comparison, the bed rails are about 5 feet 1 inch up. When I backed onto the curb, it was close to 5foot 11 inches up. She is only about 5'1".

I dont know my laws like some people might, but I know that you CAN NOT go inside someones space, even if the doors are open. Espeially going in there and taking something out. Sure it is a knife, but my record is perfect. Never been to the principal or anything and they think I might go stap people with it... BS.

And one more thing, my brother last year had a HUGE knife on his dash, completly forgot about it and went to classs. 5minutes later he gets called to the princpal and alll he says to him was... Take the knife home and come back. So my brother did that. But the thing is, I know for a fact the doors were unlocked at that time. I made a big deal about she should NOT go through peoples cars like that, and the principal made sure to tell her never to do it again...

OK thats my story, let me hear what you think.

[oddball]

yeah thats bull crap, I would see about pressing charges on that fat pregnant dog. I cant see why its bad to have the knife in your vehicle and not on your person

[Huhwhye]

I doubt they could legally search your car without cause.  It's a different situation when it's your locker on campus.  They can search those randomly.  That locker belongs to the school and they are allowed to search that for various reasons.  Schools are goverment agents but they have more power over what happens on their campus than say the cops would have over a person on the street.  They argue that's its in the interest of the school, students, and the community to keep the school safe etc. etc. and that's why they can search your locker.  But your vehicle I'm not so sure about.  If your vehicle is on school property, eehhhh I don't know if that matters.  Police can't search a vehicle without a warrant or probable cause.  But like I said, the schools have a strong argument that allows them more power.  I should know this, I'm sorry I can't remember everything, it was a while ago that I studied this stuff in school.

But regardless of the argument, that's all thrown out the window when they knowingly let you walk around on campus with it on your pocket.  That's almost amusing.

As a recovering "bad kid" in school.  I'm just happy you didn't get into more trouble.  It might not be worth fighting over, I was your age too.  My tendancy would be to Fight the MAN!  but you don't want to risk your future for something like this.  You have a long life in front of you.  Let it go and watch out, your on their radar now.

[lilbuddy [OP]]

Oddball, yes it is :bull crap:

Huhwhye, you are exactly right. Everything you said was exactly what the vice principal said to me. The whole searcing my truck is kind iffy though. I really dont approve of that at all. I really wasnt arguing the fact that I had a knife in my truck, I was trying to get the fact that she still searched my truck. She could NOT have seen my kinfe without going inside. When my dad called the principal, he said "You know, it almost makes me mad too because his truck is a big target, its a massive truck, big lift, and 37" tires. You should just be in this thing going down the road, cops give him dirty looks" And since my truck is a big target, I think that is why she also went inside of it. I kinda heard something about this a few months back that she can rightfully search your car, and that pissed me off even though nothing even happend and I didnt even have my truck there at the time, but it still got to me the fact she can not ever search it. I understand I am a lucky person, I even told her that. I was like, you know, I am already on thin ice for just coming in here and talking about the situation, its just not right to me that I was not informed of this while it was happening. I would much rather go out there and get the kinfe and take it hoe rather then me getting all worked up like I am. I made sure the fat that I am a good kid and not a threat to school, But I am a hunter (and I told her this) and I would not be suprised if I even have a bunch of .270 shells or .257 and had like 6 .32 cal pistol shells. Not to mention all the 12 ga and 20 ga shells in my truck... I was just wondering if any of you in here are or previously have ever been in any type of law enforcement to read what the cops would actually do.

[86 4runner]

i know when i was in high school, that whole year ago they could searh our cars if they had a reason to, but they had to notify you and you could be there while it was being searhed, they would have you unlock it. they never broke into our cars though. thats fawked up. do know how she unlocked it??

[lilbuddy [OP]]

I really dont know. I dont know if I said, but even when I was running in PE first period, I checkd and they were locked... I think she called a locksmith almost because I saw her look at my truck and then leave... Its weird. I am still angry at the school.

[86 4runner]

yeah id be pissed too. all the faculty at my school knew me really good not cause i was bad. they liked me, and didnt really care what i did be cause they knew i wasnt going to shoot up the school or any thing. i always pretty much had my knife in my back pocket another one in my truck and my pellet gun and paint ball gun layin in my back seat.. other kids would get in trouble for having those tiny lil knifes on there keys and i would just laugh. i guess its always good to be tight with the authority

[Rebeltilldeath3]

Ha, my school was totally different.

The janitor used to ask me where I bought my knives at, and one of these was a 12" knife.  I always had atleast 3 knives in my truck, multiple times leaving shotguns in my toolbox, had chainsaws in my bed all the time.

[guywithuglyyota]

She cannot do that at all. Ever since kids started shooting other kids in schools (like they can ever prevent that) all schools are on a lockdown and quite paranoid about anything sharp. I would notify the police that the Yardlady illigally broke into your truck, and present the argument that she could not possibly see it from outside. They will do nothing, however if she does it agian (I would even fool her with a plastic knife) I would call the cops again. You have much better restraint than I do, I would strap a block of c-4 to my door latch and hide behind a brick wall to watch her do it again..but then again I have played too many first person shooting games so im crazy

[crawlingturtle]

Lilbuddy, what she did was illegal and you could definitely bring this to court.  I just went over a topic similar to this in my law class.  As the fourth amendment states “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” What she did was illegal and this is the type of case that could go all the way to the State Court if pursued. However, the sad part is that this will continue because they believe that most every young person is ignorant of the law and will not take the time and money to bring it to court.   
You might consider getting a lawyer and have him look into pressing charges on the school.  The idea is that the school board would be so afraid of all the negative press they would cut you a plea-bargain.  If you did that you wouldn’t even have to go to court.  Also note that your truck is considered private property. The key here is that she obtained knowledge that “would have been unknowable without physical intrusion.”   I will talk to several law professors and ex-lawyers and see what they say about this issue.  You might have a strong case.

[Willy Mammoth]

As the fourth amendment states “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Print this and post it on your window and write on it "YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED"

[BLUCRUZ]

I'd get a lawyer.

I used to carry a shotgun to school in my rack but that was 20+ years ago. Times have changed since then but your rights were violated regardless. The way you say the principal handled it was totally wrong. As far as the breaking into your truck, if you were parked on the street that is not the schools property it is the city's property and thus they would have had to call PD to deal with the knife and the way you were parked. I'm assuming this was at CHS. I would take your case to a good lawyer and sue the crap out of the school district, the principal & the bubbles person.

[David]

Who actually opened to door? Where is their witness? And where is the $250 that was under the drivers seat in a paper bag?
I am far from young, old in fact, and with you 1000% on this issue. Students, in fact all young people have rights too, don't let them shove you around, but do it legally.

[sloyota]

I got caught once with a knife in my truck at school, they called the cops and they made a really big deal about it.I told them i forgot about it after a whellin trip i took.what surprised me is how he saw it,it was under my driver seat,my doors were locked up,he said the doors were unlocked.so what i found out later that day he broke into my truck   this guy had been breaking into peoples car and trucks to steal things lets just say i thought about useing my knife,well not really,but i was pissed off.well after a set up we caught him on video breakin into my buddys truck,i filmed the whole thing," STEALING"-BREAKIN AND ENTRING.he got BUSTED and did 5 years in  ,i guess it was'nt the first time this a-hole had be caught.So if it was'nt for me and my trusty video camera, he probaly would not have caught.It's all about the video camera,so go buy one.That footage i sold it to REAL TV couple years ago so if you watch the show you might see it,look for a 88 red yota and my buddys is a 90 white yota with so a-hole stealing.I don't like people that break into people's trucks and steal. good luck lilbuddy

[KYOTA]

Way back when I was in high school (class of 84) you could carry knife and have a rifle in your truck, imagine that. I dont think even if the lot lizard actually saw your knife in your truck that she had an excuse to enter your vehicle, some people just think they're really important and have nothing better to do. I bet 'ol lot lizard is quite the nosey Rosey after hours too. Lillbuddy next time you talk to el principal tell him that your parents are thinking about contacting an attorney and see how fast his head spins!

[BigMike]

Geeze public schools are wack these days. Man I carry my leatherman in my glove box everywhere I go.

I've got one question though lilbuddy: Was the knife visible? Was it just sitting on your pass. seat? If you've got a knife and its consealed, like in your glove box or under your seat, then how would anybody know that you have this so called "weapon" on campus? That's a silly silly law

[DontStall Rockcrwl]

you should feel lucky.. my friend had his backpack on that he went hunting with that weekend and had a knife in there and got expelled.... 

[toy87]

Don't really know much about the public school rules, i went to private until college, but they did have to contact you before they could go near your car. also they needed a cause and you had to let them in. I don't even remember more than one car being searched my 4 years in high school. and we played with paintball guns and airsoft guns at school and in the parking lot. The fact that they broke in is ridicules, A lawyer could really make things right in a hurry, most schools, don't like lawyers, specially is there kid goes to the school, haha. Well sorry you had to go thru the BS at school, you are right thou, they can't do that and you had every right to be upset with them.

[BLACKDOG]

Lilbuddy, you are 100% right.  Even if your vehicle is on school grounds, YOU are the only one allowed to unlock it by law.  I had a similar situation happen, I drove my old dodge to school and had a knife under the front seat. I knew it was there, but on the way to school, I had to slam on my brakes and it slid forward until the handle was visible.  Our yard nazi saw it (dont know how, she was short as well) and opened my truck, and took it out and waited for me!  According to her, she stood by my truck for 2 hours waiting for me.  I had left one of my batwings open, and she had reached through and unlocked it.  however, that was hard for me to do, and someone with short arms would have had to really strain, and the only way she could have seen the knife was if the door was open Anyway, she staarted about rules about weapons and such, and I  about MY rights, which I have been aware of for a long time. 
                  1. School officials cannot open personal property, be it vehicles, or bags
                  2. If locker is opened, student must be present
                  3. If police are called, and open personal property, student must be present.
                  4. If an "illegal" article is found, it must be turned in (yard nazi cant hold onto it)
Students have more rights than people think, they just get scared, so they dont say anything.  I knew where that knife was, and I knew she couldnt see it (I could barely see it and I am 6'6" without opening my door.  I think she stole stuff from kids cars, beause when I got loud, she handed me the knife, told me not to do it again, and hurried away.  She waited for me for 2 hours, and now she didnt have time to get me in trouble??     Oh yeah, this was in Nov. 2002 so it wasnt really that long ago

goodluck lilbuddy

[ntsqd]

Lilbuddy, what she did was illegal and you could definitely bring this to court.  I just went over a topic similar to this in my law class.  As the fourth amendment states “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” What she did was illegal and this is the type of case that could go all the way to the State Court if pursued. However, the sad part is that this will continue because they believe that most every young person is ignorant of the law and will not take the time and money to bring it to court.   
You might consider getting a lawyer and have him look into pressing charges on the school.  The idea is that the school board would be so afraid of all the negative press they would cut you a plea-bargain.  If you did that you wouldn’t even have to go to court.  Also note that your truck is considered private property. The key here is that she obtained knowledge that “would have been unknowable without physical intrusion.”   I will talk to several law professors and ex-lawyers and see what they say about this issue.  You might have a strong case.

Um, I do believe that only applies to legal adults. When you are underage things are considerably different. In other words, people under the age of 18 are skrewed.

[BLACKDOG]

yeah, according to law they are, but there are students rights that every school has.  Also, lilbuddy,is your truck in your dad or moms name? cause if it is, technicly, that lady opened your DAD or MOMs truck, and they do have amendment rights  

[crawlingturtle]

I just talked to a law professor.  He basically said that the school has legal rights similar to that of a parent.  The idea is that when you go onto school property you imply permission to have your car searched with or with out cause.  It sounds like the state has given the school that right.  However, if you were parked on a public road this would be very very iffy.  Where did you park Lilbuddy? On public or school property?  If you were on public property I would get a lawyer. 

[CTENG in KS]

I will support the fact that they shouldn't have been searching your car without you there, but this whole pulling up onto the curb with all your buddys is drawing attention to your vehicle which invites the curiosity of short stubby people.  They don't like it when they can't see over things...  

[Huhwhye]

Edit: Turtle is right. And beat me to it

I know this sucks but REMEMBER...

At this time in our country paranoia runs rampant.  Post 9//11, Post Columbine etc etc.  Courts and lawmakers are more willing to take away rights than to extend them. The really really sad part is most adults agree.  That's just ignorant I know.    They can cite numerous causes, safety, protecting the educational enviroment blah blah blah.  You were on their property, and courts have already allowed lockers, backpacks, and persons to be searched.  Vehicles could be next.

I'm not saying this is right, but this is what we have to deal with

[BLACKDOG]

I will support the fact that they shouldn't have been searching your car without you there, but this whole pulling up onto the curb with all your buddys is drawing attention to your vehicle which invites the curiosity of short stubby people.  They don't like it when they can't see over things...  

   BUt parkin on the curb just looks soooooooo cool

We had two jeeps in high school that decided top park on on the others tire, and one of the yard nazis went out and let the air out of the tires, and the one jeep fell off the other one and almost landed on her.  She had to pay for a new rim and tire for that one, bent the rim and tore the tire when it hit the ground

[CTENG in KS]

Small people in positions of little power tend to get the "curiosity killed the cat"-syndrome.   

[FATB0Y]

Well Lilbuddy you handled it well B-cuz if you had showed your you could have gotten in a lot of trouble. I know it sux and it is :bull crap: but you done the right thing 

[lilbuddy [OP]]

I'd get a lawyer.

I used to carry a shotgun to school in my rack but that was 20+ years ago. Times have changed since then but your rights were violated regardless. The way you say the principal handled it was totally wrong. As far as the breaking into your truck, if you were parked on the street that is not the schools property it is the city's property and thus they would have had to call PD to deal with the knife and the way you were parked. I'm assuming this was at CHS. I would take your case to a good lawyer and sue the crap out of the school district, the principal & the bubbles person.

I would get a lawyer, but its the money and time thing. I actually go to PVHS also. Actually when my dad went to school, about 25-35 years ago, he would actually sometimes forget that he has his shotgun in the gun rack, with the doors unlocked, no problem. I still do not get why the knife could not have stayed in the LOCKED truck, but I could go get it and walk around campus to my truck with it. Im not an idiot, I know thatit was wrong, but the searching thing SUCKS.

I just talked to a law professor. He basically said that the school has legal rights similar to that of a parent. The idea is that when you go onto school property you imply permission to have your car searched with or with out cause. It sounds like the state has given the school that right. However, if you were parked on a public road this would be very very iffy. Where did you park Lilbuddy? On public or school property? If you were on public property I would get a lawyer.

Well, the bad news is that I parked on school property. Thing is about the whole searching BACKPACKS, like Huhwhye said, without cause is lame. My friend who was suspected for having pot on him, almost had his backpack searched but he kept saying no, and they finally got the cops involved and all they said was, we cant do anything, the backpack is on him right now. Also about how since it is on school (government property), she said something about that and I was just going, dang. This is still a very stupid issue because they should HAVE to ask permission to search under suspesion, but they did not!

yeah, according to law they are, but there are students rights that every school has. Also, lilbuddy,is your truck in your dad or moms name? cause if it is, technicly, that lady opened your DAD or MOMs truck, and they do have amendment rights

It is actually in both their names...

Um, I do believe that only applies to legal adults. When you are underage things are considerably different. In other words, people under the age of 18 are skrewed.

Actually, I went to try to buy a knife (actually funny enough, the knife that was in my truck when I got caught with it) when I was 15.5, they wouldnt let me. They said I had to be 16 to buy knifes. True that I am not 18, but if I was, I would definatly take this to court.

Geeze public schools are wack these days. Man I carry my leatherman in my glove box everywhere I go.

I've got one question though lilbuddy: Was the knife visible? Was it just sitting on your pass. seat? If you've got a knife and its consealed, like in your glove box or under your seat, then how would anybody know that you have this so called "weapon" on campus? That's a silly silly law

The knife MIGHT have been visible. It was in a CD case, in a pouch thing with some mesh, with a reciept and stereo remote over it. Only way she might have seen it is like I said is if: A. She got a stepstool or B. Opened the door to just look around. Now, I think its B, because she is a short fat lady. Shes a very nice person, but I was not informed so it is WRONG for her to search my truck. I would have not have a problem if I went to the principal and had to go out and open my door, no big deal.. This thread would not be here if this was the case. I wanted someone (Like Crawlingturtle and Huhwhye, and everyone else) who know something about law to see what I should do.

Now like, DontStallRockCrawl said that I am lucky, I dont think that I am going to send an email to the superintendant like I was going to. Only because how Crawlingturtle said, they actually somewhat have the right to do that. Someone did actually tell me that since they do "work for the government" They actually have more right then what Chico PD has. Still, I really think that something should be done about her wrongfully searching my truck.

Only thing about this is, the door might have been unlocked. And even if that was the case (which I know it was not unlocked) it is still VERY wrong for her to do that to me. I am still pretty aggrivated about this, but what can I do. I am not expelled so I am lucky about that. I just want something to be done.

[lilbuddy [OP]]

Who actually opened to door? Where is their witness? And where is the $250 that was under the drivers seat in a paper bag?
I am far from young, old in fact, and with you 1000% on this issue. Students, in fact all young people have rights too, don't let them shove you around, but do it legally.

Bubbles opened the door, no witnesses but I did sort of see her searching around by my truck and all the others on the curb. Now, if there was $250 inder the seat, Id have a new suspension but there wasnt/isnt.

[Haz-matt]

1. do lawyer up, it's the only way to keep the school honest

2. become a media sleeper now.  Call all the TV and Radio station news desks, call local talk shows and any where else that gets this into the public light.

This last week there was a kid who was told that they couldn't have a picture of there brother in Iraq because there was a weapon in the picture.

This level of crazy parinoia will not stop untill schools are forced to stop being stupid.

Good luck, but if you don't ear the school down right now this will come back to bite you in the ass.