Topic: Your Build Philosophy

[blackdiamond]

I was thinking today that with all of the experience that is represented in all of the build threads it would be fun for everyone to summarize their philosophy of building their trucks and what they learned along the way.  Think of it as a summary of your build.  You can also post a link to the actual build for anyone that finds your rig of particular interest.

Assuming I can put mine together before anyone else beats me to the punch I'll go first and we'll see if the thread takes off or not.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Growing up my dad owned Chevy Blazers starting with his 71 followed by an 85 and finally an 89 before he moved on to a later model 4Runner.  We lived in Colorado so I grew up wheeling the trails in Colorado and in my early years we visited the Needles District of Canyonlands several times a year.  Easter in the desert was the norm.  I have pictures of me as a little guy sitting in spare tires in camp.  I didn't get a lot of opportunities behind the wheel but learned a lot by watching.  My dad, and most of the people we wheeled with, were anti damage and worked very hard to keep their trucks showroom clean.  We have a lot of pictures of the first dent in the old 71 Blazer.

As a result of how I was raised in the wheeling world I'm also very careful to avoid damage if at all possible with my trucks.  I am not a mechanic in skill or at heart so the foundation of my builds was to overbuild and then wheel with care.  The result is that I have been wheeling since 2001 when I was just finishing up college and have never had a major trail repair.  My complete list of broken parts during wheeling trips include a worn out u-joint on my 85 truck, a broken twin stick (was a manufacturing flaw), a few leaks after an engine rebuild that required a gasket to be changed.

I started with a mostly stock 85 truck with 32 inch tires and a 3-1/2 inch Pro Comp lift that had blocks in the rear.  Once I graduated and got a real job I upgraded to a 4-1/2 Superlift with new rear springs, 33 inch tires, a Detroit locker in the rear, Truetrac limited-slip in the front, 4.88 differential gears, and a single 4.70 MC transfer case.  I also bobbed 13 inches off the bed.  I didn't have any sliders or any rear bumper, but it performed great and on the trails that I ran in Moab I only touched the rear end a couple of times (I think it was twice at the Golden Crack).  I opted to not get a full locker in the front because I didn't want to push the stock birfields.  I was fairly new to the world of building Toyota's as my "dream rig" had always been to build a TJ with a Rubicon Express lift.

The next step in the build process was Longfields and an Aussie front locker along with ARP hub studs and Longfield hub gears.  There was a nice improvement in performance with the full locker in the front and I no longer had to have any concern for the front axles.  I really didn't do anything else to the 85 truck until gotrocks sold me my current 89 4Runner, the family rig, and offered to do the build for me if I got the parts.

He did the SAS using the front axle out of my 85 truck, my rear differential was swapped in, and the 4.70 transfer case.  The new parts included Alcan springs all around, adding a dual case, sliders, a Marlin rear bumper, high steer, Bilstein stocks, and 35 inch tires.  Somewhere along the line I got ARP steering knuckle studs but I honestly cannot remember when it happened.

I really have not done much to the 4Runner after the original build beyond swapping to Rancho 9000 shocks after spending a week in Moab bottoming out the Bilsteins.  I don't run bumpstops (probably should) but don't have the issue with the Rancho 9000s installed.  I bottomed twice in a week on the last trip and with the Bilsteins it happened on almost every ledge that I dropped off of.

Between the two trucks I have been to Moab 9 times for week long trips, for 8 of them I drove from Washington State, and I've made 1 trip to the Rubicon on the road.  Until my son was born in 2011 the 85 truck and 89 4Runner were daily drivers, but carseats in the back of the 4Runner is a pain in the rear end so it's now a third vehicle and sits in the garage most of the time.  I've managed to toe the line of daily driver and off road rig fairly well.

If I could do anything over it would be to get more firm springs from Alcan as I've learned that my soft springs really don't control the axles as much as I would like when climbing steep things in Moab.  The 85 truck had rear springs that were approaching angle iron for flexibility and it climbed like a goat.  The 4Runner has more weight at the back so the combination of weight distribution and soft springs really is a disadvantage when climbing.  The 4Runner does ride better so I'd love to just split the difference.

Now that it's a 3rd vehicle and doesn't get driving much at all I'm thinking that my next tire choice could be a little more aggressive.  I've always been a happy camper with BFG muds, but am likely to get someone like a Irok next if I can convince myself that I won't just wear them out on the highway going to and from the trails.

I'm more of a store bought type of guy than most of the forum.  I've had a local shop do the majority of the work that gotrocks didn't do for me.  I don't enjoy wrenching so I have always tried to get the best the first time and be done.

I'll post a link to the builds at a later date...

[H8PVMNT]

Good idea for a thread.  I'll post soon.

[Plainview]

My philosophy with any vehicle I build up has always been "let form follow function."  I rarely indulge in any mods just for appearances sake.  I decide what I want the vehicle to do then try to choose the parts that will best accomplish that.

My truck will be a driver/camping/material (lumber, gravel, pavers, etc.) hauling rig with some light wheeling occasionally, so I'm trying not to go overboard on anything.  The 20/22R seemed like a good way to get more power out of basically stock parts and the suspension has been chosen to give the truck more off-road capability while still being comfortable and easy to drive on crappy pavement.  Down the road I can see a Chevy 4.3 or 5VZ-FE swap since I want to be able to load a motorcycle in the bed and tow a small camping trailer and not have to drive in 2nd or 3rd gear going over the passes.

I'm far more familiar with '60s and '70s American cars having owned and built several, so I'm stoked on the internet and forums like this one to help keep me from making all the worst mistakes.

[Rocksurfer]

My philosophy: Keep it simple.

[Rockcrawlintoy]

I have always tried to keep a rig street able and comfortable to drive to and from the trail.
I do not have a tow rig yet (would like one some day) but I want a rig that I can drive to the rubicon, moab, wherever and do the trail and drive home. I also want to be able to drive to the grocery store or to the beach for a get away. So far my Rig has allowed me to do that.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Good idea for a thread.  I'll post soon.

tick tock...

[H8PVMNT]

I have pretty drastic expectations of a vehicle.  I expect an end result to work as hard as it plays.  I also expect to be able to drive a thousand miles, wheel a decent trail and drive home.  I have tried a few different angles on builds but my favorite setups over time have been fairly minimal.  Tires on the smaller end, less exotic motors, small lifts.  I like to use parts available locally on shelf and make good use of leftovers when possible.

The one thing is correct gearing for whatever tire size and drivetrain, drivetrain, drivetrain.  All four wheels must go. Crawler gearing is a must and totally worth it even on smaller trucks that spend most of their time working.  Enough armor to be able to open and close the doors after a good pivot off a tree or rock but not a tube contraption.

I am pretty set on the solid axle or 2WD frame as a platform because you can achieve the same suspension travel on a 3" lower truck than when using an IFS frame.

These days I am seeking simplicity with quality in a tight budget.  I have found you don't need the baddest flexy monster to get it done.  Small subtle improvements here and there perform as good or better than large and fancy.  I am trying to set up the '80 pickup right now mostly bolt on and stock-ish in form but with all the drivetrain capability you can cram in there on a budget.


A few years ago I wanted for more power, more tire and more size overall.  I never really got there because of money and the need to keep the 4runner as a daily driver. I have had more fun and done more wheeling in the smaller trucks I have kept around to get by with.  A stripped '81 with welded diffs and 34s, an '86 with improved IFS, gears and lockers I kept for a while, the 1980 long bed I got for $250 and have worked to death, my early days setup of my '94 pickup, flatbed, lockers, 33s and 5.29s, 4.7 t-case saw more trail action than any other build I have done. 

Now I seem to have gotten to the point where I am keeping the mods and parts that have really done something for me but keeping the whole truck smaller.  I'll probably end up on 33s this time and stock push-pull steering.

So I guess in summary experience has brought my build philosophy to as big as necessary but as small as possible, simple and dependable, easy to fix and cheap.

Moderation, simplicity, efficiency with a balance of thrift and quality.

Your build will have a lot to do with the region you live in if you are thinking.  I started out in mountains and on man made courses and now I live in a prairie region and work more than I play . This has certainly effected the way I set up a 4x4.  I am wanting more for a no nonsense tool type truck than an amazing hot rock crawler these days.

I may edit this later it sounds like gibberish.   

 

[redneckcustoms13]

I realized at a young age that I can never have a rig/dd. Once I got a tow rig I build rigs that are certainly streetable but I prefer to trailer them to trails over 100 miles away. I don't play with half way, if it's a trail rig it's going to be locked, chromo, cross over steering, duals or single 4.7, atleast 35s if not closer to 40s. Body damage is not something I care even the slightest bit about. I'll chew one up, swap the body and roll out again. I've have a few rogs(Sami, 2nd gen truck, 85 4runner, 1st gen truck) all of them have been fun to build and worked for their intended purpose. For the life of me I can't figure out why I like the 1st gen so much bit has a place that can't be filled. I drive it like I stole it and put it up dirty.

[Gnarly4X]

I see my past wheeling vehicle philosophy is very similar to many of the others.

I didn’t want a tow truck and trailer.  I really enjoyed driving my 85 truck daily.  I wanted to be able to go 4-wheeling on most of the difficult trails around, haul my tools, air tank, extra parts, food coolers, and camping gear, and be able to sleep in the bed if I had to.  My 1985 22R, 5-speed, standard cab did all of that.

I liked keeping it simple with just enough mods to make it through the most difficult trails with minimal carnage, I did that, for years and years.  Lockers, 33’s, Marlin Crawler, lifted 4 inches, shackles and springs.  I also wanted to be able tow a light trailer, and I did that several times.  I wanted to increase the power (96 HP was a tad too weak), so I added a DT header, free-flow exhaust, and was about to experiment with intake and cam profiles when I totaled it.  Basically I was looking at what I could get out of a basically stock 22R with “bolt-on” and “bolt-in” performance modifications.  At that time many of my wheeling friends were already getting deep into fabrication – mig welders, tube benders, fully equipped metal fab garages, tube frames, exotic suspension, V-8s, axles, t-cases, shocks, and steering… spending $1000s and $1000s – and of course tow trucks, trailers, and toy haulers.

Although very tempted, and being very depressed about destroying my 1985, I made a decision NOT to go that route and instead invested in some real estate and stocks.

I am happy with my decision. 

Gnarls.

[T-Revv]

I learned from doing it the wrong way before I knew better this simple fact: do things right the first time.  If you are there working on it, put the good parts in that you will never have to worry about again.  Go the extra mile while you are there, by that I mean if you have a part that is out and your not too sure of the condition of a part that is behind the part you have off, change it. Ive had to go into something and then go into again not too long after when I was younger.  So now I know build right, build it once, be done.  I know its not always the easiest option financially but in the long run comes out cheaper, so save up until you can get the right stuff.  Otherwise by the time you have bought 4 of the cheap parts before you decide to put the high quality part on, your out all that money plus all of your time. 

[zippo]

Build the best and sell it.

[Gnarly4X]

Build the best and sell it.

It would be rare to build the best of anything 4-wheel, sell it, and get your money back. 

Gnarls. 

[91 Extra cab]

Build it strong, like your family’s life’s depend on it!

[Gnarly4X]

I learned from doing it the wrong way before I knew better this simple fact: do things right the first time.  If you are there working on it, put the good parts in that you will never have to worry about again.  Go the extra mile while you are there, by that I mean if you have a part that is out and your not too sure of the condition of a part that is behind the part you have off, change it. Ive had to go into something and then go into again not too long after when I was younger.  So now I know build right, build it once, be done.  I know its not always the easiest option financially but in the long run comes out cheaper, so save up until you can get the right stuff.  Otherwise by the time you have bought 4 of the cheap parts before you decide to put the high quality part on, your out all that money plus all of your time. 

Philosphically this is not a bad idea.  Hindsight is definitely 20/20. 

BUT…. in reality that is not how many of the guys I know who went through a very similar evolution of their
4-wheeling journey.

Unfortunately, most started out with a very nice 4-wheel daily driver.  They came to a club meeting and then on an easy trail run club event.  Within 1 year they were addicted and already upgrading their 4x4.

By the end of the 2nd year their nice daily driver was so thrashed it was barely recognizable.  They had spent 1000s of dollars in upgrades and repairs, all to be able to wheel on more and more difficult trails.  Eventually many had to trailer their wheeler… NOT safe to drive it on the highway.

So then they had to buy a trailer or toy hauler and a tow truck… spending investments or going into debt.  Some already had motorhomes, so they just bought tandem trailer.

By around the 3rd year of active wheeling, their nice daily driver thoroughly thrashed, some more heavily addicted decided to go the tube frame route, attempting to transfer their salvageable parts to the buggy.  Their once beautiful 4x4 daily driver was basically worthless and completely destroyed.

After 1000s more dollars spent, more in debt, and tighter budgets, they could only afford to go on a limited number of certain trail runs or 4-wheeling events.

Of course they were living the dream. 

Gnarls.

[T-Revv]

BUT…. in reality that is not how many of the guys I know who went through a very similar evolution of their
4-wheeling journey.

Ha ha ya I went through that same evolution myself.  Daily driver, adding parts making it trail ready for easy trails, and then harder and harder, while daily driving it.  But it was always what I could afford at that time (which was never much) and slapping it back together.  I kept daily driving it, even when it had half doors, a bobbed flat bed, racing seats, 5.29's and basically a spooled rear end. I drove it with no shocks for a long time. You name it.  But after always buying cheap parts, and only replacing what was broken, I was back underneath that truck a lot working on it, when I could have saved myself a lot of time and money by holding out on buying a part until I could do it properly.  That's what im trying to do on my new build. and for the first time since I caught the bug, I have a daily driver that is not my crawler.