Topic: Job/career advice. Do I really want to do this?

[te51levin]

WARNING: Long, rambling monologue ahead.  You may want to get a beverage.

I'm a parts guy at a Toyota dealership in the Willamette valley in western Oregon  - been here three years this Friday.  Because I own an MR2 and am semi-active on a couple of MR2 forums, we (our department) sponsors those forums, which means a lot of extra work and a little extra money in parts sales.  Most of what I do is just standard parts guy stuff - supplying the service department, selling to walk-ins and local repair shops, etc.  I like most of my job, and I'm pretty good at it.  I put in a hell of a lot of effort and a hell of a lot of hours.  But there are things about it I don't like, and I need a little perspective before I bail out.

It's a small department; there were only three of us in parts before the third guy decided he'd rather drive a truck than stay with us.  Turns out the manager was unwilling or unable to pay him a decent wage, so he left.  Now it's just myself and the manager, plus a new kid who starts this week.  The manager had a hell of a time finding the new kid.  He lost the last guy because he couldn't or wouldn't pay him a living wage, and he interviewed guys whom he wanted to hire, but couldn't or wouldn't pay them enough to attract them.  There were guys he could afford, but they tended to droll down their shirts or talk about Jesus during their interviews.

Traditionally, employees in our company try to negotiate raises during their annual review, which is coming up (theoretically near my hire date, later this week).  But on hinting to the boss that I'd be leaning on him for a raise, he let me know that corporate (our dealership is part of a chain of over a hundred stores) had put a freeze on pay raises.  They claim to be losing money.

A decent income is getting more important to me all the time.  I'm nearing 34, don't own a house yet, have no significant savings, and my wife is a full-time student at an unreasonably expensive community college, working only weekends at a department store.  She'll be entering university next fall.  We don't make much, but we don't qualify for any financial aid aside from subsidized federal loans.  My salary is currently capped at $2800 a month.  For perspective, our duplex is a fairly nice rental in a decent neighborhood, and it rents for $700.  When a car needs a windshield or we need a doctor visit, I usually find something valuable in the garage and eBay it to cover the bill.  My suspicion is that the dealership or my manager (or both) are simply unwilling to pay me any more than they already are, or worse yet, that my job isn't really worth more than I'm currently getting paid.

Meanwhile, the dealership, like many Toyota stores, is currently undergoing a huge renovation and remodel.  Our obsolete parts and service departments are effectively getting brand new facilities, and we're on the tail end of six or eight months of working out of various undersized temporary facilities.  Right now, we're in a chicken-wire cage inside the shop, with all the indoor bad weather and air tool and compressor noise you'd expect.

We've opened a brand new Express Lube facility that is not allowed to bill parts out on repair orders.  If their program doesn't bill the right oil filter, or if they upsell a set of wiper blades or need a price on tires, they have to call us and have us do it.  It's a lot of interruptions and a lot of lost time.  Corporate and/or the store have no plans to rememdy this.  They claim that it can't be changed.

Finally, our corporate masters have been jamming new ideas at us left and right.  They took away our cashier, and now each parts guy and service advisor has his own cash drawer.  We have to perform cashier duties for our customers (a minor inconvenience) and then cash out at the end of each day (fifteen minutes I can't spend doing useful work).  After we count our till, a 20-year-old clerical girl must check it for us, sign off on its accuracy, then escort us across the street to the safe in the sales manager's office, where we both have to sign a logbook.  Apparently, we cannot  be trusted to do it without her help.  We're also now required to clock in and out on a special intranet webpage, another minor hassle that just adds a few more minutes of lost time.  It's a little thing to pregnant dog about, but I think it's indicative of how out-of-touch the corporate masters are with what their employees do every day.  They'd much rather have us go through web-based training and sign papers stating that we agree to participate in these programs, than actually teach their employees how to do their jobs effectively.

So here I am, nearly 34, providing for my wife's education, not sure whether my boss is really willing or able to pay any of his employees.  I'm putting in a minimum of 50 hours per week, and last week I logged 65 over the course of six days.  I would literally have made more money if I got paid hourly at minimum wage.  I don't want to throw away a decent job, but I don't want to hang on to a bad one.  The noise, the long hours, and the wasted efforts I make for the department and the company are driving me out.  The only things keeping me there are the faint hope that there may be something good enough to stay for after the remodel is finished (another month or so), the new guy learns enough to take a little load off my back, and the pay freeze is lifted (who knows when that will happen?).

I have a lot of other skills, but none of them fully honed.  I can build or repair all kinds of things, but not with any great speed.  I'm good with computers, but not trained in, say, programming or repair.  I used to do a little illustration, but it's rusty, and all I ever had any interest in was drawing cars.  All of my interest has always been automotive, though I have no interest in general repair work.  Restoration or performance work has some real appeal, though I've always heard it's rather low paying, and much less exciting and glamorous than it looks.

Right now I'm trying to stay beered-up enough to make it through another month without walking out in the middle of a shift.  So...suggestions are welcome.  Am I a fool for staying aboard a sinking ship, or is the ship just in some rough water right now?  And precisely when is it acceptable to stab a co-worker?

[Duffil]

Right now I'm trying to stay beered-up enough to make it through another month without walking out in the middle of a shift.  So...suggestions are welcome.  Am I a fool for staying aboard a sinking ship, or is the ship just in some rough water right now?  And precisely when is it acceptable to stab a co-worker?

you just paraphrased my last 3 years at my place of business.  hopefully you make better choice than i have.

[4XFlyin]

I highly encourage you to find another job... But don't ever quit the job you have until you find another job. It's easier to find a job when you have one. Perspective employers are more likely to pay you more if you have a job. They want to wew you away. When you are applying and you are unemployed, employers wonder why you are unemployed.

When you find that other job and it is in the bag, than you will feel great going in and giving your notice. You and your wife deserve better.. Go out and get that dollar.

P.S. the other job will probably suck too. But who cares as long as you get paid more and it is a little better.

[kneedownnate]

Salary sucks ass, period!  It sounds great until you realize how much you're potentially losing.  Though you make a fair amount more than me still, I fear I'm one step away from being put on salary as much as I have to fight for raises lately. 

It's too bad you guys are so dependant on constant income.  You know how well car sales can pay, but you also know how hit and miss it is.  Artwork is undoubtedly more hit and miss.  You should post some pics of some of your t-shirts, etc 

[te51levin [OP]]

Salary sucks ass, period!  It sounds great until you realize how much you're potentially losing.  Though you make a fair amount more than me still, I fear I'm one step away from being put on salary as much as I have to fight for raises lately. 

It's too bad you guys are so dependant on constant income.  You know how well car sales can pay, but you also know how hit and miss it is.  Artwork is undoubtedly more hit and miss.  You should post some pics of some of your t-shirts, etc 

Salary would be fine with me if we had adequate staff and reasonable workloads.  The simple fact is that the boss tells me not to stay later than I have to, but the workload demands it.  if I don't stay late, the work will not get done.

I could easily increase my income by 50-100% or more by selling cars across the street, and I could do it consistently, but I've done it before, and the hours are no better.  They have the same attitude; they want you to come in early, stay late, come in on your days off to make car deals.  If it's slow, they expect you to call anyone and everyone (including friends and relatives) to try to get them in.  It's a viscous, brutal environment, and I don't care to check my integrity at the door.  There are guys who make a living at it and retain their interity, but they still have to log the hours and basically sell their lives to the dealership in exchange for the paycheck.

Artwork is never lucrative - at least not the way I do it.  Everybody wants full-custom work, but nobody wants to pay for it when they can get "close enough" at Wal-Mart for half the price.  Thought about it plenty, but I'm pretty sure it'll never pay the bills.  Probably wouldn't even pay the phone bill...

[NT-OUTBACK]

I've worked in the auto service sector as an ASE certified tech for six years. I can say this much there is no future in any auto service jobs anymore. I've always hated the idea that people consider college expensive, because it's really not. I know plenty of people work crap jobs they hate while carrying 25k + bank notes on cars and who knows what on credit cards.

In the end all they have to fall back on is a high school diploma and tons of depreciating assets. I sucked it in a few years ago and did away with all my toys and went back to school at got my first two degrees.  Those first two degrees did not cost me a dime as I looked for money, grants, scholarships etc. My current financial aid package at Chico State is better than some people make in a year working a crap retail job fulltime.  My student loans are a minuscule part of my aid package.

While college does not guarantee that you going to land a big paying job after you graduate. It sure will open a lot more doors than a high school diploma. It's not the same as it was 30 years ago when a high school diploma could get you places.

[jimbo74]

sounds like a headache, but it does sound like its stable, somewhat.....

dont throw it away, until you know you have something better.....

[te51levin [OP]]

Those first two degrees did not cost me a dime as I looked for money, grants, scholarships etc. My current financial aid package at Chico State is better than some people make in a year working a crap retail job fulltime.  My student loans are a minuscule part of my aid package.

Maybe things are different in CA (my wife was not a student when we lived in Redding, so we can't compare), but up here, even community college costs about $5K a year in tuition, fees, books, etc.  I'm not saying it's not worthwhile, but of course the cost of attending includes not just that $5K, but also the lost income from not working at a regular full time job.  With me working, we don't qualify for anything but loans.  If I quit, it would be two years before our income tax statement would be low enough to qualify us for anything but loans, and it'd be awfully hard to survive for two years on two part-time jobs.

I've thought a lot about going back to school when she is out and employed, though.  I have an AA degree, so it would not be impossible to get something accomplished in reasonably short order.

[79coyotefrg]

imsorry  your having trouble  but it kinda sounds like you are living beyond your means

$2800 a month  is not bad money,    try paying $875 a month house payment on $1100 a month,  i wish  i could  downsize  but its not a option  due to circumstances

what kinda  vehicle do you drive?? 

[kneedownnate]

An old mr2, the wife drives an old camry.  I don't see it as living beyond their means so much as trying to invest in a future!  Once the wife is out of college, she'll undoubtedly be able to get a career that pays fairly well and all the struggles will be worth it.  Lots of people who've skipped the opportunity to further their education end up barely getting by through life, myself included, so her taking advantage of the opportunity now (she's several years younger than he) is the right long term plan.

Myself, in my situation, if I were making $2800 a month.......well, let's just say things would be really good for me!

[sinbob]

Automotive is not a bad business.  If you can do the parts for them you can you also do it for someone like 4 whl parts or be a manager for some other chain store like Kragen or Napa.   
Have you also thought about service underwriting??  One of my coworkers wife does that for the Lithia dealership here and she makes damn good money. 
Instead of looking at it negatively....especially if you are locked in to your wifes education....look for ways to make yourself more valuable to them.  If you can do many jobs within the dealership then maybe u will be able to move up to a manager position.

Then, what is the cost of living as compared to Calif??

But, in the end U have to do what u feel is right for U......been ther and done that!!!! Good luck.

[red]

you can make good money in automotive. my cousin's husband is a diesel mechanic making 62k a year sallary fixing garbage trucks. 40 hours a week. he used to make more when he was working for toyota as an ASE tech (made around 80k each year) but switched jobs to have more time with his wife.

[79coyotefrg]

An old mr2, the wife drives an old camry.  I don't see it as living beyond their means so much as trying to invest in a future!  Once the wife is out of college, she'll undoubtedly be able to get a career that pays fairly well and all the struggles will be worth it.  Lots of people who've skipped the opportunity to further their education end up barely getting by through life, myself included, so her taking advantage of the opportunity now (she's several years younger than he) is the right long term plan.

Myself, in my situation, if I were making $2800 a month.......well, let's just say things would be really good for me!

well thats what i meant  $2800  is alot of money,  i couldnt see  what the trouble was

but  yes   her going to school is  investing in their future


what i would do is scout around  and see whats available,  is  you current position  the best in your area?? 

[te51levin [OP]]

Interesting suggestions and comments here so far.

79coyotefrg: We're not living high on the hog by any means.  The cars are $3500 beaters and we don't indulge in many luxuries (other than being a little lazy in the kitchen), so my $2800 plus her weekend paycheck is always enough to pay the bills and keep food on the table.  But we're not really able to save anything outside of the 7% I contribute to my 401K.  Basically, I'd like to be able to afford health insurance, buy a house, think about having kids, and plan for a decent retirement.  Income is very important but it's not the only factor at play here.

I have worked as a tech and as a car salesman, and I am not keen on returning to either of those.  Although I liked a lot of things about both of those jobs, in the end, they both rewarded me for my ability to hustle (work faster, come in earlier, stay later, push harder) instead of for my ability to think, to plan, to create, etc.  They made me mentally tired at the end of the day, and I don't need that.  It's the same thing I'm dealing with now.  I think it's safe to rule out any job centered around mechanical repair.  Rebuilding and fabrication are a lot more fun, on the other hand.  When you're done, you have a shiny new product where before you had nothing more than a greasy, rusted lump of uselessness.

sinbob: working across the room from service advisors for the last three years has convinced me that I don't want to go down that road.  They deal with all the same corporate foolishness that I do, and they have to be the go-betweens between technicians and customers.  I don't think I'd be up for a day full of explaining to one senior citizen after another that their Camry needs a water pump, and that dented bumpers are not covered under warranty.

Someone local mentioned getting on as an insurance adjuster.  Although it has all the romantic appeal of lukewarm dishwater, it might actually be something I'm good at, and the money seems right.

Also, while the construction's taking place, I plan on casually asking the electricians how they like their jobs.  That's something I've thought about from time to time as well.

[Ramrod]

wow this whole story sucks.and I might sound like a richard but this all makes me feel really good about my income and the fact that im going to school full time also.  I might be having a post like this in the near future though but I already know which way everybody is going to lean

[Ramrod]

my opinion = working by hours for someone else = screw that.  Salaries = screw that.  Working full time= not for me and never will be.  After working full time for 6 months I can honestly say I will never do that again and I will never work another job getting paid by the hour doing any sort of laborous work unless im getting majorly compensated.  Find a something your good at or can pretend you are good at and work for yourself.  Look at it this way:  you can work full time and have full job security by working for someone else after a few years doing some sort of trade making $20/hr which equals out to say $600/week.  Decent pay definitly OR you can take the big risk and instead of farming yourself out to do someone elses dirty work and make them $80 and hours while you get your little cut you can do it yourself for $80 an hour and pull way less hours and make the same amount.  Sure it is very risky but I made the jump after saving up some money and am oh so glad I did.  Thats just my 2 cents and keep in mind im only 20 years old

[te51levin [OP]]

Find a something your good at or can pretend you are good at and work for yourself. <snip> Sure it is very risky but I made the jump after saving up some money and am oh so glad I did.  Thats just my 2 cents and keep in mind im only 20 years old

Interesting.  I'm not in your position, and I probably can't risk what you've risked, but I'm awfully curious - what are you doing now?

[jimbo74]

this is for pat, if you are already making fat $ and dotn wnat to work the regular 9-5 grind, then what are you going to school for? i mean i know personal excellence is awesome and props to that, but isnt the point of school so you can make more $ in a job?

[BLACKDOG]

this is for pat, if you are already making fat $ and dotn wnat to work the regular 9-5 grind, then what are you going to school for? i mean i know personal excellence is awesome and props to that, but isnt the point of school so you can make more $ in a job?

Or to better yourself, expand your horizons, gain contacts, gain new skills, etc.

The list goes on.  If the only reason you go to school is to make more money, you're missing the point of school.  Every class you take, every degree you get can open doors, if not in the field you're in, than in another one.  The more valuable you are to society, the easier it is to avoid the 9-5 grind. 

[Ramrod]

right now im horseshoeing but that is not what  i would like to do as a career at all.  blackdog is right, I am going to school to expand my horizons and see what I really would like to do in the end which is be a game warden.  It would probably be a pay cut by the time I get the job but it would be doing something I love for a good cause. 

[CTENG in KS]

I suggest Wichita.  Cheap living, Wichita State right down the road...you could try your hand at putting airplanes together.  It is union but they train you and you get good benefits and stuff.  Plus you would make more and they pay for overtime.  you should put a resume together and send it to me...or check out www.spiritaerosystems.com under the career link to see if there are any openings that appeal to you.

Plus the CT is here, which is pimp.

[CTENG in KS]

example of a current listing here:

Spirit AeroSystems is currently seeking an Assembly Underwing Mechanic. Wichita,
Kansas is the headquarters for Spirit AeroSystems, which was purchased by Onex
Corp., from Boeing Commercial Airplanes in 2005. In addition to Wichita, the
company has operations in Tulsa and McAlester, Oklahoma, and the United Kingdom.
Spirit AeroSystems supplies commercial airplane assemblies and components,
provides aftermarket support, and designs and fabricates tooling.
Responsibilities:
Assemble, form, functional test and inspection of parts and assemblies into
end-items, working from drawings, documents, process specifications, quality
control requirements, and established processes and procedures, to assure the
timely delivery of quality products to the customers. Perform tasks such as
multi-tasking where applicable. ? Drill, Saw, sand, trim, fit, fasten parts
utilizing required hand or power tools. ? Assembly / Installation of Strut and
Nacelle parts using templates, jigs, and fixtures. ? Apply sealants and or
compounds. ? Fabricate, assemble and install systems elements. Requirements:
Must be willing to work assigned shift. Applicant must be U.S. citizen or
permanent resident. Must have High School diploma or GED. Equal Opportunity
Employer M/F/D/V.

 
 Location:    3801 S. Oliver
Wichita, Kansas 67210-0000
 

[te51levin [OP]]

I suggest Wichita. 

I appreciate the suggestion, but relocation's not really an option right now.  My wife is in school here and wants to stay here.

[CTENG in KS]

See, restrictions like that only hold you back.

[te51levin [OP]]

Well, obviously I'd have more choices if I was able to just pack up and gypsy around wherever the work was, but that's not the way I/we want to live.  Still, I think it's worth trying to find something better even if we don't have to move.

[kneedownnate]

You should roll over to SKY and see what they pay their guys

[te51levin [OP]]

Considered that, but I seriously doubt it's any better than what I'm making now.  Worth a try though...

[Stocker]

Aside from a few ideas we kicked around on the phone, look at your avatar -- ever considered LE?  I wouldn't suggest local PD or county SO, but maybe OSP?  I know CHP has had a big hiring campaign for several months now.  If Oregon's wage, benefits, and retirement packages are anything similar to Cali, it might be worth consideration. 

[te51levin [OP]]

Aside from a few ideas we kicked around on the phone, look at your avatar -- ever considered LE? 

Quite.  I have, on several occasions - but frankly I doubt very much that I have the patience to do the job without eventually popping some champion's skull open in frustration.  Stupid people make me very angry...and OSP wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

I'll look into going back to school.  With two of us enrolled, financial aid might be a lot kinder to us than they are with just Mrs Grumpy attending.  Worth a shot, I suppose.  Also spoke discretely with an electrician today, and he seemed encouraging.  Local 280 has an apprenticeship program in Tangent, BTW.  He didn't know much about utility work, but seems to be doing well and enjoying his job.  Of course, if I went inside I wouldn't have a legitimate reason to have a really bitchin' set of boots built...

The local guy who usually has Ferraris in his shop wasn't in when I stopped by today, sadly.  I hope to catch him tomorrow, or early next week.  There may actually be no money in it, but it's worth a chat.