Topic: Noob question... don't click if easily irratated

[teamfx3]

Would someone be willing to explain to me the actual shifting options of a doubled case and the differences of placement of crawler gears in one of the cases. I hope this question makes sense... I'm trying to figure out if running 4.7 gears will work well for my type of wheelin or if it would be too low and I'd be better off just using stock gears in both cases. I'm planning on running 33's with 4.88's off a 22RE/w56 for now with plans for a 4.3/700R4 in the near future.

[weirdtimes_7]

what year truck???

military_stang

[teamfx3 [OP]]

what year truck???

military_stang

It's an 85 4Runner, does it really matter?

[chaseheadrick]

Doesn't really matter at this point what year it is. a stock truck (of that year) will have about a 37:1 crawl ratio.
here is the breakdown of gearing assuming you have stock Ring and pinion gears

Stock single case: 37:1
Single case w/4.7: 76:1
Dual stock cases: 84:1
Duals w/4.7 in one case: 173:1
Duals w/4.7 in both cases: 356:1

so, you need to decide what type of driving you want to do with your truck, and change the gearing appropriately. in most instances dual cases with 4.7 gears in one case will be enough to get you by, but some of us like to get extreme

[teamfx3 [OP]]

Doesn't really matter at this point what year it is. a stock truck (of that year) will have about a 37:1 crawl ratio.
here is the breakdown of gearing assuming you have stock Ring and pinion gears

Stock single case: 37:1
Single case w/4.7: 76:1
Dual stock cases: 84:1
Duals w/4.7 in one case: 173:1
Duals w/4.7 in both cases: 356:1

so, you need to decide what type of driving you want to do with your truck, and change the gearing appropriately. in most instances dual cases with 4.7 gears in one case will be enough to get you by, but some of us like to get extreme

That's cool, that info is useful. However I'm kinda looking to see what the specific gear selection options were when using dual cases. Specifically, if I were to use the 4.7 gears in the front case and vice versa.

[79coyotefrg]

4.3  and 700R 



i have dual stock cases  and 32's currently but will be going to 33's  MAYBE 35's  later in 07  i hope

i often  just  shift the tranny to 2nd 3rd or even 4th while in  low range in both cases,  if  in mud,  if on rocks and i dont NEED 4wd  at the time i shift to 2wd,

if you get a twin stick  its even easier

[teamfx3 [OP]]

4.3  and 700R 

What?

[teamfx3 [OP]]

Ok, so apparently I must not be asking the question properly...


If I have the 4.7 gearset in the front reduction case and stock gears in the rear:

Can I have the front case in low and the rear case in high and drive in 4.7 low range? Or front case in high and rear in low and run 2.28 low range? Then both in low and run a 7.whatever low range? If this is accurate, does it really matter which case has the 4.7?

[BikerTrash]

if I have my head around your question right then no, it makes no difference gearing wise if the front is the 4.7 or the rear is. There might be a strength reason to have it one way or the other but if you are only running one or the other in low range you will get just the low range from that one. If you are not twin sticked on your rear though you will only have that boxes lowrange in 4wd but you could use the front box's lowrange in 2wd.

like   if you had the front box a 2.28 and 4.7 in the rear you could  use both shifters in combination to get
                                 2.28 2wd low
                                 2.28 4wd low
                                  4.70 4wd low
              or A combined  10.716 4wd double low

[Shamb]

Its really personal preference...

if you have a 4.7 in the crawl box and a 2.28 in the t-case then its going to basically be the same thing as having a 4.7 in the t-case and only 2.28 in the crawl box.

Only reason why i'd go with it in the t-case is so that i've got the option of going 4wd high in the 4.7 case.

[FIREBALL]

Actually it does matter. Not for gearing, but for strength. Marlin recomends putting the 4.70's in the rear case because there is less chance for breakage.
Yes, you can run your front case in low range with the rear in 2wd or 4hi, or any combination you can think of. The advantage to having the 4.70's in one case is it gives you more gearing options/choices along with a lower final gear ratio that can come in very handy.
What kind of 4wheeling are you going to be doing? This will certainly affect what kind of gearing you actually need.

[teamfx3 [OP]]

Awesome, thats exactly what I was looking for! Thank you.

Fireball: I live in New Hampshire, so if you're unfamiliar with New England 'wheelin it includes rocks, trees, stumps, mud and quite a few miles in between the trails. I'm thinking the dual cases with 4.7/2.28 combo would give me a wide variety of gearing options for the wide variety of terrain we experience.

[FIREBALL]

That will definetly give you the widest range of gearing to choose from. You will crawl through stuff without touching the clutch and have a grin the whole way. Enjoy!
Just make sure you buy from Marlin. The quality and service is next to none!

[teamfx3 [OP]]

Just make sure you buy from Marlin. The quality and service is next to none!

 Absolutely! I'm planning on taking full advantage of the New Years' sale. Planning to purchase the MC-07/4.7 combo and also a Marlin rear bumper.

[blackdiamond]

If you are serious about the 4.3/700R4 combo you really need to consider either putting the 4.70 gears in the rear case or at a minimum going 23-spline for added strength.  The 23-spline was originally for the Turbo model and I bet the 4.3 will have more power than that.  The additional cost is minimal when compared to the reduced chance of failure.

In my opinion, if you are planning to build for more power with an automatic, you would probably be OK without the 4.70 gears.  The automatic will allow you to crawl just fine with dual cases with stock gears in both and the stress on the drivetrain would be less.

I have heard that with an automatic, you can't stop the rig with gears lower than 100:1.  The brakes can't handle the torque.  This gives you an idea of the gearing you would have.

I would advise a dual ultimate and keeping the 22RE unless you are playing in deep mud where speed is the only option.

LOW GEARS ARE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT WITH STANDARD TRANSMISSIONS THAN THEY ARE WITH AUTOMATICS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE ADEQUATE HP.
 

[teamfx3 [OP]]

If you are serious about the 4.3/700R4 combo you really need to consider either putting the 4.70 gears in the rear case or at a minimum going 23-spline for added strength.  The 23-spline was originally for the Turbo model and I bet the 4.3 will have more power than that.  The additional cost is minimal when compared to the reduced chance of failure.

In my opinion, if you are planning to build for more power with an automatic, you would probably be OK without the 4.70 gears.  The automatic will allow you to crawl just fine with dual cases with stock gears in both and the stress on the drivetrain would be less.

I have heard that with an automatic, you can't stop the rig with gears lower than 100:1.  The brakes can't handle the torque.  This gives you an idea of the gearing you would have.

I would advise a dual ultimate and keeping the 22RE unless you are playing in deep mud where speed is the only option.

LOW GEARS ARE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT WITH STANDARD TRANSMISSIONS THAN THEY ARE WITH AUTOMATICS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE ADEQUATE HP.
 

Excellent points... yeah I was thinking about this this morning when I was preparing to make the New Years sale purchase... I obviously only want to do this once and want to go into a ~$1000 investment knowing that it will handle some changes in the future. In order to get the sale price, it looks like I'm stuck with the 21 spline input. This is a pain in the ass.

[Shamb]

Whats your reasoning behind wanting a 4.3 and 700R so bad?

[teamfx3 [OP]]

Whats your reasoning behind wanting a 4.3 and 700R so bad?

Power and driveability. The 22rE sucks...

[blackdiamond]

Excellent points... yeah I was thinking about this this morning when I was preparing to make the New Years sale purchase... I obviously only want to do this once and want to go into a ~$1000 investment knowing that it will handle some changes in the future. In order to get the sale price, it looks like I'm stuck with the 21 spline input. This is a pain in the ass.

I have run Moab 3 times with a single 4.70 case with 4.88 gears and 33 inch tires.  This was with a stock 22R and standard transmission.  There were times that having lower gears would have helped, but I have not been stopped anywhere for a lack of lower gears.  I am going dual ultimate in the 4Runner more for the middle set of gears than the low-low option.  If you get the stock geared crawl box you will have adequate gearing for everything but the extreme rockcrawling.

The owner of the local 4x4 shop that I do business with actually runs 3.8 gears in his Jeep rather than the 4.3 because the 4.3 gears are too low for hillclimbs in the mud (Washington State).

If your budget is set I would get the stock crawl box (MC-14401), or upgrade to a complete dual ultimate 21 or 23 spline.  Sometimes spending more or saving longer is worth the investment long term.  I would put the twin stick money towards the cases as I have not found as much utility with mine as I expected.

Power and driveability. The 22rE sucks...

 

I have seen a 4Runner on 37 inch tires run 80 mph with a mostly stock 22RE.  My stock 22R will run 70 mph most of the time without problem.  Durability and Reliability are also things to consider.  If you are going the HP route rather than gearing, then you don't need a 4.70 gearset.


  

[Shamb]

Have you considered other options?  look at the entire engine spectrum. Not just 22RE's...

3RZ, 5MG, 7MG

what about a newer 3.4L?  those are an excellent engine.

[teamfx3 [OP]]

I have seen a 4Runner on 37 inch tires run 80 mph with a mostly stock 22RE.  My stock 22R will run 70 mph most of the time without problem.  Durability and Reliability are also things to consider.  If you are going the HP route rather than gearing, then you don't need a 4.70 gearset.

LOL, yeah I can go 90 MPH with my truck on 30" tires, but it takes 5 miles to get up to that speed! I'm not dissing you who love your 4 bangers, but there is no denying the fact that they are not exactly torque monsters and if you actually needed to accelerate quickly to save your ass, it just isn't gonna happen. And I never said anything about 'going the HP route', I simply want a motor with a good torque curve that will get out of its own way and drive nice.

[teamfx3 [OP]]

Have you considered other options?  look at the entire engine spectrum. Not just 22RE's...

3RZ, 5MG, 7MG

what about a newer 3.4L?  those are an excellent engine.

 Why are you so anti- 4.3? I know some of you guys are total zealots when it comes to keeping it all Toyota, but why discount a tried an true motor that has a TON of aftermarket support and is readily available?

[Shamb]

I'm not anti 4.3, I just see alot of better options rather than the 4.3L

Staying Toyota engine / tranny is just a better option for easier buildup purposes and availabilty of aftermarket support.

[teamfx3 [OP]]

I'm not anti 4.3, I just see alot of better options rather than the 4.3L

Staying Toyota engine / tranny is just a better option for easier buildup purposes and availabilty of aftermarket support.

 I will agree with you that having less adapters is certainly a bonus, but I disagree that other Toyota engines have as large of an aftermarket than the 4.3 does, especially dollar for dollar. Again, I respect your opinions and hopefully you can do the same.

[teamfx3 [OP]]

I just see alot of better options rather than the 4.3L

Perhaps you could elaborate your claims? Dropping a broad based comment like that isn't very helpful...

[FIREBALL]

The yota motors are definetly good power plants, but I don't think that you could call them better. The 3RZ has definetly proved itself a good choice. Price, power and fit are all good. The 3.4 is a good motor, but much more expensive. The inline 6's create more fabing and moding but have good power. The 4.3 fits nicely can be had fairly inexpensive compared to most of the others and there is definetly a large aftermarket.
I think you have to weigh all the factors for your particular situation, ie. the type of wheelin, kind of power you need, cost, fabing expertise vs. bolt on etc. Then find the engine that best suits your needs.
I was always a toyota or nothing kind of guy, but when I built my runner, for the power, ease of install and overall cost the 4.3 was the best choice for me.