Topic: Toyota of USA is GAY: My big rant

[BigMike]

Don't worry, this isn't another 'heep haters' thread.....

I am just wondering if anyone has some input on the following relating to Toyota of US. So here is my big rant about Toyota. If you don't really care about how Toyota is in the US, then this might be a waste of time to read because it's alot of info about Toyota of US and it's a long story. I could write a whole lote more too..........................

Here is why I dislike Toyota here in the states:
It's fine that they only offer IFS and use market majority in their decisions such as "most people in the US prefer a smooth ride" but I dont like how they are so gung hoe with Automatics and do not offer many Manual 4WD trucks. The Tundra V8 is only available as auto and the Taco double cab V6 is only auto also. Please give us more choices. Jeep offers a 4.0:1 choice vehicle and I see them everywhere on the trails (new Rubicon-edition Jeeps) - doesn't this give any hint that there is a significiant market of us 4WD folks who would buy a new live axle Toyota truck if it was available?!?! At least give some options..

This kind'a only relates to my personal opinion because my first love was a Toyota MR2, so here goes: They stopped all performance orientied vehicles in 1995. After 1995 they discontinued the Twin Turbo Supra, Turbo MR2, and Turbo Celica and basically said to Honda: "Hey Honda of US, Toyota is much better and we kick your ass in Japan, but we feel like being a bunch of whimps in the US so you can market your VTEC cars and take over the sports compact market in the US because we want to offer 101 SUVs instead." You do realize that in Japan Honda is 4th place in the car market. I believe it is: Toyota, Nissan, Mazda (or Mitsubishi / Im not sure), and then Honda. So why does Toyota just play dead in the States like this?

The new MR2 Spyder is a great car that needs an engine of twice the output to compare to todays standards. And here's what really makes me is that the 144HP engine in the MR-S is the same as the 175HP engine offered in the Celica it just doesn't have the VVTL-i cylinder head and electronics like the Celica. So Toyota could be offering the MR-S with the better engine because it has the SAME engine block that would use the SAME transmission and the SAME engine mounts. GGGRRRRRRRR TOYOTA!! Even the Matrix has the VVTL-i engine !!!! Can you believe that! Even the Matrix is faster then the MR-S and Toyota was comparing the MR-S to the Porsche boxer - What the hell is wrong with Toyota of USA?

In addition to this, did you know that Lotus is *finally* going to import the Elise to the States? Yup, and its coming standard with the Toyota Celica VVTL-i engine. That's really cool but here's the sad part: The Lotus Elise is rated at 190 HP. Yes, 190 HP from the same Toyota engine that is rated at 175 HP in the Celica/Matrix. It seems to me that all Toyota cares about is soccer moms picking up their muffins from the bakery. Why would a soccer mom own a quote "high-performance" vehicle in the first place?!?! So a message for Toyota: Stop tailering your engines to people who are not the target market. I dont even car if they are a larger majority over us young-minded people who want powerful engines -- they will buy a Camary or some other model if the exhaust note is to loud!

More on Toyota Engines: As a MR2 guy, I live for Toyota's 4A-GE engine. It is a 1.6 litre engine that redlines at 7,600 RPM. When it was first produced in 1984, its output of 112 HP was far-and-wide an advancement for all engines of that size. Other vehicle manufactures' comparable engines were far below 100 HP, like 80 or 85 HP tops. So Toyota clearly dominated the small engines market with the introduction of the 4A-GE. Toyota's technology was 30% better then anything else on the road at that time. That's amazing and Toyota was the high-life.

Well, that's a nice history lesson that no one here should really care about. But here's where Toyota becomes in the US: Overseas, they basically changed ecu and the output was 138 HP. Same engine, same cylinder head, same intake, same TVIS induction system, even same exhaust manifold. The only difference is that we use EGR valves here and overseas of course do not. So this could be argued to be a Smog related issue or because other countries have better gasoline (also a smog related issue), but then in 1989, Toyota overseas redesigned the intake manifold and cylider head (small-port) and the output rose to 145HP.............. Then in 1991 they redesigned the Supercharged version 4A-GZE to a 165 HP version (compared to the 140 HP USA engine) ................ and then in 1994 they created the 20-valve 4A-GE that put out an amazing 165 HP normally aspirated engine that DID NOT use any VTEC or VVTL technology - It was still using the old valve train technology yet developed 165 Hp.

So why am I talking about all these neat engine versions? Becuase they all were kept out side of the US. Never offered here in the states. And im sure this is for almost every Toyota engine. Better versions are not sold here. So now Toyota in the states is like 30% behind everyone EVENTHOUGH they have the better engines - they dont offer them here! It's like they want to be 30% behind everyone here and they dont even care.

And to make matters worse, from 1989 - 1993 Toyota did offer the better small-port version 4A-GE BUT ONLY TO GM in the CHEVY NOVA and the GEO PRISM. So American cars used the better Toyota engine IN AMERICA. So dont tell me ohhh its emmissions or ohhh its our gas here. Even Lotus found how to get 15 more HP out of the Toyota Celica/Matrix engine and Toyota still doesnt care about their cars

And as a closing note, I would just like to share that the new and exciting changes for the 2005 MR2 Spyder is an increased ride height of 2". Wow, great job Toyota, nice going Toyota, why dont you just offer Tercel engines in ever vehicle and stop wasting the consumers time.


Their are more examples and reasons why I dont like the direction Toyota is going, but that would just make this story longer then it already is.......

BigMike

[shawnb]

My turn

I've looked into importing a hilux from austrila. 4k and you have to do it in pieces.

I would assume the reason that Toyota is a Pu**y in the US, is because there are so many dumas@'s out there. They buy an suv, roll it and them file a law sute against toyota. We have lost common sense. I know very few people that will hone up and fix the problems they have created. Too many Americans are lazy and looking for a free ride. It's sad. This country was built on hard work. Many great things have been created by people working there tails off and now we have a bunch of lazy turds that think they deserve to have everything handed to them. It's sad, I wish I could go around kicking lazy a-holes in the balls and making them go to work. But they would just sue me and take everything I've worked so hard for. It's just wrong. But WE have let it get this way. The question is how do we fix it? Does anyone want to bother trying or are we just to buzy being fat dum happy americans.

[BigMike [OP]]

I signed a petition for Live Axle Toyota's a few years ago..
Let me find it...

Ok, here it is: http://www.petitiononline.com/ifs/petition.html
I am #1494

Theres now 2501 people who have signed that. 2499 wrote: IFS - "It Freakin' Sucks" hehehe


Anyways Im very interested in any info anyone has as to why Toyota is so
Besides Market demand, Smog laws, and Gasoline grades, does any one else have any sound info as to why Toyota just doesn't care anymore?

[shawnb]

2502 now

[WHITE_TRASH]

I am a backwards thinking billhilly and I have no problem admiting it.  Instead of buying a vehicle new and then trying to make it better I buy old junk and turn it into something worth having.  I dont like any of the new vehicles out there at all.  Really there are some of them that have some really cool features but you have to put up with a computer thinking way more than the driver.  Toyota seems to be at the forefront of the computer car age.  In all the writeups that Ive read on all the new vehicles offered by Toyota the same type of problem rings loudly in my mind, the computer systems have too much controll over what is happening as you drive.  Everything that can be copmputer controlled is from the ABS to the traction control, yes they are very closely related but on different planes.  I feel like Im on my own in thinking that I am smarter than a computer in most cases.  Yes ABS is good to have and so is electronic stability control if you let your mom borrow your rig and she doesnt have the same understanding of the characteristics of the braking and yaw of your vehicle. 

I think that Toyota has indeed really lost sight of the performance car segment in the US as well maybe even more so than in the Semi Usefull Vehicle market.  They have neutred each and every "performance" oriented car in there lineup one by one.  They have just as Mike suggested systematically downsized the hp ratings and made the cars look sportier than ever, but also slower than ever before.  I just dont get it, I hope that one day someone gets into a place of authority in Toyota USA that has no degree from MIT or Harvard and has balls hairy enough to start kicking everyone else right straight in theirs.  Then and only then will Toyota get returned to its former place as a performance vehicle.

[Bazzi]

WT thatīs the way to go.... 

and for all you other guys FIGHT THE POWER  (donīt give up) 

[yotaboy79]

im #2504

[BigMike [OP]]

I was just thinking about some new plans for my pickup, tell me what you think

1983 Short bed Toyota
I'm gonna replace the live axle with IFS from a 1986 pickup but use the stronger Tacoma IFS axles.

I'm gonna replace the rear leaf spring suspension with a coil setup from my 94 4Runner.

When I bought the truck, it came with two t/case shifters for some reason, so I'm gonna replace the front one with two cup holders.

I noticed the 35" BFG Krawlers were too noisy so I put some michelin tires because so much is riding on my tires

I actually enjoy the smell of exhaust, so I replaced the aftermarket header that was on the engine when I bought the truck with a stock exhaust manifold that always cracks.

When I accellerate, the engine produces a really low sounding note, so after many months of research I've designed a couple plastic boxes (because plastic was cheap) that is shaped to cancell out those low notes

Also, the truck was still too high after I converted it to IFS so I lowered the suspension and added these really cool running boards as a step. They even have some high-tack felt glued on to increase the friction beneath my shoes on the rainy days in the city

After lowering my truck, I noticed that the tires didnt fit. So I put on a 4" body lift - problem solved!!! Its cool also because you can see how strong the frame is now that's its visible. Toyota really built 'em strong!

You know what? The aftermarket tube bumbers had been scratched and the previous owner didn't even care. Well I didn't want it to rust, so I ordered a chrome bumper from the dealer that looks great too!

One time on the freeway, I noticed some dust in the left lane. Well I've got a 4WD truck so I'm not gonna play dust's slippery game! But when I tried to engage 4WD at 50 MPH, SHEESH!! I heard this strange kha-kha-kha noise that sounded like my mocha frapichino machine. I learned that you can use a system with chains like a bicycle and can shift at any speed I drive at. That's so great - now I dont have to be scared when I sometimes park on my grass at home. It can be slippery especially if I just watered the daisies!

Later, I learned that even though I engage 4WD my hubs are not automatically locking? Something about manual locking hubs I think. What's manual mean? I need to read a manual to lock them? lol So I found these neat autolocking hubs and installed them. Sometimes they dont stay locked while I am backing up, but that's fine because I dont have a back-up camera to see where Im going (like our RV) so I just simply dont ever back up

One time when I was leaving my house during the night to go bowling, my neighbor's dog got into the trash and it was all over the ground right in front of my truck. Can you believe that! Of all the nerv! So as I was shifting into 4WD to get safely over the paper garbage, my hand slipped off the shifter knob and I wacked my finger nail into my Sony cardeck. I was furious!! So yesterday, after I got my radio's faceplate repolished, I had the nice man at the dealer install this push button that automatically engages 4WD with one touch! It even has this light and it beeps to let me know im in 4WD

Later I found out that it was beeping because you have to be in Park to engage 4WD. But I didnt have a Park on my shift handle, only 1-2-3-4-5-R. So I complained to the guy and he installed a new transmission that has Park. It's nice!! Not only do I have park so I can engage 4WD, but now I dont even have to shift gears! Its almost like the truck was automaticly shifted! I shared this story with my neighbors and they were both amazed. The man at the dealer told me that the manual transmission does not have a parking gear so it's dangerous on hills. Boy I am glad I got that removed. I mean who wants to read a manual every time they want to change speeds anyways!

Last week we removed the softtop on my sisters Toyota 4Runner. Then when we put it back on, we not only misplaced a couple bolts (we found some 13mm and 7/16ths bolts in the garage that fit!) but it leaked water when it rained yesterday. Can you believe this? So I wrote a letter to Toyota complaining that my armani suit got wet and Toyota said that they would discontinue removable tops on all 4Runners. That's great news!

[WHITE_TRASH]

That just goes to prove my suspicions about you mike....

















































You just aint right in the head! 


But the problem is that Toyota US sees it just like you explained.

[yotaboy79]

i hope your joking  whats wrong with you

[84runner]

Well I love my new scion bread box 








I am to tired to start sig #2505 Maybe you should try and bring that petition back to life

[Brian83]

# 2506!!

[SWAMPER]

Mike that was a good long...thingamagigers....dint make sence...but im bored so it gave me something to read lol 

[BigMike [OP]]

That's why I write, for those who are bored 

[SWAMPER]

Thanks MiKe! 

[BigMike [OP]]

Guess what I just heard, Toyota is now discontinuing both the MR2 Spyder and the Celica models for 2006. 2005 will be the last year for Toyota's only remaining sports car and a half-sports car. But the Scion TC looks promising, too bad its front wheel drive, but it looks like Toyota is dishing out their sports image through their Scion badge.

I think its sad.

[Skinny_Pedal]

its been dead for awhile

[robinhood4x4]

The new tacoma is supposed to have a 6 speed manual tranny available.  I don't know if that includes the dcab though.

[reklund5]

Mike-

I totally agree with you on your assessment of Toyota's current position on sports cars.  I think my old truck and my old Supra are way better than the current offerings.  I work as a Toyota mechanic, and it makes my stomach turn when I get in a new Celica GTS and it gets outrrun by a stupid civic.  I think Toyota is missing the boat in the performance segment by not offering a single turbocharged vehicle anymore.  The new Tacomas are such weenie trucks in comparison to stock trucks of 15-20 years ago- they crumple like cheap beer cans in the smallest fender benders.

That said, the new Scion Tc is the closest thing that Toyota will offer for a sports car.  I spoke with some dudes at TRD the other day and they're getting 240HP to the wheels with the optional Supercharger and Intercooler.  Now, maybe if Scion releases a solid axled 4x4 to compete with Jeep, we might have something.  Start writing your letters to Scion NOW.  Think 1st gen 4runner meets 21st Century...

Ryan

[CTENG in KS]

I believe I made that same suggestion about scion trucks...I better get to the phone!

[SWAMPER]

I think its very disapointing what has become of Toyota USA   they are pulling out the best units they had discontinue/badly alter them and dish out stuff that is bearly up to past standards....so the new scion RC looking car has 240...so what..I would have rather gotten the MR2 upgraded to have that much power... 

[reklund5]

Swampy-

I agree that the Mr.2 would have been a cooler platform to upgrade/increase power on, but you have to keep in mind that as a business Toyota has do what will sell.  Offering a new line of cars (Scion) to a younger generation gives Toyota an opprotunity to start with a "clean slate" and potentially bring buyers in that would have otherwise passed off Toyota as a stodgy brand.  With the right input, Scion can become what Toyota used to be- a brand that offers performance-oriented purpose-specific vehicles.  Scion might offer a solid axle hardcore off road rig, a turbocharged track machine, AND a cool looking breadbox thing (remember the old Toyota 'toaster' vans?)  The new Tc is a step in the right direction in the sports car category, the xA and the xB cover the utilitarian car category, so whats next?  I think it HAS to be light trucks.  With the Tacoma moving to a T100 size next year, and the Tundra offering 3/4 ton variations in the next few years, I'd guess that it will be left up to Scion to offer the "mini-truck" sized vehicles.  If we all start writing letters, maybe they'll listen and equip them the way we want! 

Ok, I'm off my soap box now.  Back to work on my current SAS project...

Ryan

[SWAMPER]

Yes I knew that already Rek....but it still bothers me 

[kyle_22r]

you know, my friend(who loves the '74-78 trucks) has been telling me that scion is due to release a truck someday, that it'd be awesome.  i've called him nuts for it, but i guess he wasn't the only one who was thinking like that

it'd be nice to see toyota offer an "extreme" rig, but i think i know them too well

and to me, the celica died when it became a FWD secretary's car.  the 1977 GT liftback is one of my favorite cars of all time, then the very next year they came out with the hideous beast that was the '78 celica.  they got better looking in '82(except for the FUGLY coupes) but never really regained their mustang-ish look they had in the early-mid 70s

[UNBREAKABLE]

I'm #2528!!!

[Skinny_Pedal]

well i was watching auto week sometime back. and the new solara gets more horsepower in the v6...sweet. but wait, theres a catch, u only get the auto tranny with the solara v6 .      dam this is gay. the 4 pop gets a manual though...go figure

[BigMike [OP]]

  \

[BigMike [OP]]

I signed a petition for Live Axle Toyota's a few years ago..
Let me find it...

Ok, here it is: http://www.petitiononline.com/ifs/petition.html
I am #1494

Theres now 2501 people who have signed that. 2499 wrote: IFS - "It Freakin' Sucks" hehehe

2502 now

im #2504

I'm #2528!!!

HEY GUYS NICE WORK! KEEP THOSE SIGNATURES COMING SO WE CAN KICK SOME SENSE IN TOYOTA AND GET A LIVE AXLE PICKUP!

[mudguts]

A live axle quadcab

[BigMike [OP]]

We should be allowed to buy som eof these rigs. they have cool yotas and nissans


http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26730

Hey mudguts, so you wanna share us your user name and password since we need one to see whats on that page you linked above?