Topic: Getting banned

[fordh8r]

My point doesnt make sense that I want to know my rights about open and private land? If you dont know your rights about things and you fall to use them, they will get taken away.

You can't have something taken away that you don't have in the first place.

Such as the right to be on private land. Unless, that land is yours or you have explicit permission to be there, you have no right to be there.

 Is this what you mean? 

[llamas]

My point doesnt make sense that I want to know my rights about open and private land? If you dont know your rights about things and you fall to use them, they will get taken away.

The best way to know where you are is get a topo map of what ever area you want to wheel, hunt , hike , scout , whatever  then you know exactly where your at , if your ever questioned you can surely show your map and where you think are right or wrong that's how simple it really is , I have hunted and packed all over the west and as long as you have a map whether you are lost or whatever you can defend yourself and know your whereabouts !!!

[kneedownnate]

I don't have to put up a sign on my land just to tell people to stay off. 

Straight from the mouth of my not so friendly local fish and game warden, yes you do    You used to have to have a sign stating it was private property every 50 feet, but I think they bumped it up to one every 1/4-1/2 mile or so.

[llamas]

Straight from the mouth of my not so friendly local fish and game warden, yes you do    You used to have to have a sign stating it was private property every 50 feet, but I think they bumped it up to one every 1/4-1/2 mile or so.

If you come on my posted with one sign land....I'll shoot at ya  !

[94MtnYote]

 the crappy thing is jerks will tear down signs, making things difficult for rural land owners.

If you come on posted with one sign land....I'll shoot at ya  !

 

 thats a clear message any idiot can grasp   

[junya92toy [OP]]

You still miss the point. It comes down to if you some how without knowing get on private property. And then there is a situation where the land owner wants to press charges. Is he required to have proper signs, and you get a get out of jail free card. Or no he is not and you get in trouble. SO if he is not required then yes you need to be more careful. It could be as simple as the local paper mill closing a area for hunting season and they miss a road or gate and you unknowingly get on the closed area. With a sign being required, and not one posted, you get asked to leave. But if you dont know that( your rights of being entitled to a required sign) you might let them fine you, or take you to jail.  now do you see my point?

And what is required for a area to be closed. If someone blocks a road with rocks just because they think no one should be allowed in the forest your rights are also being violated.  You have a right to go there.

[llamas]

You still miss the point. It comes down to if you some how without knowing get on private property. And then there is a situation where the land owner wants to press charges. Is he required to have proper signs, and you get a get out of jail free card. Or no he is not and you get in trouble. SO if he is not required then yes you need to be more careful. It could be as simple as the local paper mill closing a area for hunting season and they miss a road or gate and you unknowingly get on the closed area. With a sign being required, and not one posted, you get asked to leave. But if you dont know that( your rights of being entitled to a required sign) you might let them fine you, or take you to jail.  now do you see my point?

And what is required for a area to be closed. If someone blocks a road with rocks just because they think no one should be allowed in the forest your rights are also being violated.  You have a right to go there.

You still don't get it  !!!  get a freakin map from any forest service and it has all the public and prive land and boundries and if your tooo dumb to read the maps they can help you ,
get over it  !! if your on pp and don't know where you are posted or not you are AT FAULT get over it !!! geeeesh !

[DTB]

I know round here getting a trail taken away or arrested for tresspasing is probably the last thing that is gonna happen....

You're more likey to get shot or run up on an active meth lab.....

[junya92toy [OP]]

Some PP is open at certain times. 

[KYOTA]

 If someone blocks a road with rocks just because they think no one should be allowed in the forest your rights are also being violated.  You have a right to go there.

are you retarded? seriously? who do you think put the rocks there or dug the tank traps at the entrance?    the OWNER of the property did to keep all the jerrys out of there that dont know better than to stay off land that isnt theirs to tear up. dude you're backpeddling so hard, the you said in the shoutbox and then here trying to make it sound like you're just trying to know your rights :bull crap:  aint foolin anyone

[junya92toy [OP]]

I have every right, to know my rights about what is open and closed. A sign is not to much to ask for. Even if you have a map. PPl do misread it and sometimes take a wrong turn. You cant reason with unreasonable people. Cant some one lock this thread or delete it.

[fordh8r]

Ok, then. Let's say you're on private property unknowingly and a LEO stops you.  He says, "you're on private property" and you respond with, "I didn't know......  ", right?  The bottom line is, why should he believe you when you could be the umteenth person he's busted there?  He doesn't have to take your word for being 'ignant' and he is most inclined to cite you and let you run the course of defending yourself in court. Put yourself in his shoes or the property owners shoes. Would you believe some kid thrashing a property in a wheeler? I'm almost certain I wouldn't.

And unless you were the first person to come onto said "private property", as a property owner would you continue to leave your property unmarked. I don't think I would. Especially, areas where it's likely that a vehicle could pass.  In this case why would you assume that any property owner is not this smart?

[junya92toy [OP]]

Ok what everyone fails to see it, if there is proper signs. Youre right people cant play dumb anymore. But it could change alot of things and could open up alot of areas. LIke there are signs saying youo can drive here on the roads and trails already in place but no making new ones. And the places you dont about being open or closed you then would and might find places are open. I think my asking for a sign is a good step in making sure 4wheeling is done legally. And it can let new places to be explored.

[fordh8r]

I think this gets back to "staying on clearly marked trails". 
In which case, this means there is a sign designating it as a usable trail as I have seen in many wheeling areas. 


If by "new", you mean that no one has ever been there before and there is no trail to speak of and you want to blaze your own "new" trail, then chances are...that is your indicator not to enter. Thus, why there is no trail or sign. Again, the opportunity to "stay on the trail" as marked should be followed. 


                                                                 OR


If by "new", you mean a popular trail that is "new to you", then again, if the trail is clearly marked as one to be used by the public then by all means continue. If it is not marked as a  public use trail maybe the reason for that is that someone doesn't want you there in the first place....gate or no gate. Even to a property owner a gate can be a hassle. If he has to go through it continuously throughout the day while working on his property it would be easier for him to leave it unlocked in which case it may be unlocked or even open for his own passing but not yours. If you're looking for a sign on his gate, you might ask, why would he mark property he already knows is his? Maybe he should, I might.


Maybe what you should be asking is why aren't more trails marked as publicly usable? And what could be done to get more trails opened for public use so new areas could be enjoyed by all? Those are good questions, but so far the angle as proposed here doesn't help open up more trails or even keep open the ones we are fortunate to still have and are able to use.


I do hear what you're saying and the best thing to do in such a case is to err on the safe side of not entering a property that may be questionably public or private, if possible. This would just minimize any trouble for youself in the short term any overall trouble for eveyone else in the long term.  <----this is soda since we also don't condone drinking and driving/wheeling here (i know you said nothing about drinking, just saying).

Whatever you do, just make choices with some forethought in consideration for yourself and others.  I believe that's all we're asking here, not just of you, but of everyone.   

[llamas]

Ok what everyone fails to see it, if there is proper signs. Youre right people cant play dumb anymore. But it could change alot of things and could open up alot of areas. LIke there are signs saying youo can drive here on the roads and trails already in place but no making new ones. And the places you dont about being open or closed you then would and might find places are open. I think my asking for a sign is a good step in making sure 4wheeling is done legally. And it can let new places to be explored.

I think we'll all be interested what the judge tells you then you'll know that you did something dumb regardless of your opinion........

[junya92toy [OP]]

Whatever you do, just make choices with some forethought in consideration for yourself and others.   I believe that's all we're asking here, not just of you, but of everyone.   


I do make good choices in life already. I dont go where I think its closed, or around gates. But I do think there should be more in terms of what is what and such. My old man was a cop and I got in more trouble camping with him and his friends then I did on my own haha

[Toymin8r]

[fordh8r]

I do make good choices in life already.

 

Obviously, I can't judge you by any other choices you make or even by the subject matter of this thread. I wasn't making any judgement, whatsoever, for that matter.   

But I do think there should be more in terms of what is what and such.

Sounds like what you're saying is..."ALL trails should be marked regardless of what type of use it may be designated for. If that's it, in a nutshell, then I have some disheartening news for you....just ain't gonna happen.  This isn't a perfect world and it never will be, unfortunately. So we all have to go on (hopefully a good) judgement call at that point in the trail. Or maybe I'm wrong. 


That, OR....


Nobody here  has the answer you want to hear or we just aren't understanding your point for whatever reason. Sorry.

[Lady Di]

The rule we tell all new comers to WATTORA, and what we see DNR telling us as well, is that land is presumed closed unless otherwise posted. Whether it'd be empty field or old trail. The way they see it, no sign necessary unless its open.

That is the way it is in the national forests here in florida. The trails are closed unless posted open. That way no one can steal a 'closed' sign and say they never saw it.

[peacesells]

Here in az its open unless its berm'ed OR signed closed wheather it be on a map or sign at the start of a road. If you get caught on a closed trail its $1000 fine plus damages, private property is marked as "to be determined" which means to me owner makes up whatever damages he feels neccisary and the offender fits the bill. STAY OFF OF PRIVATE LAND FOR YOUR OWN SAKE!!!!

[cruzila]

I have every right, to know my rights about what is open and closed. A sign is not to much to ask for. Even if you have a map. PPl do misread it and sometimes take a wrong turn. You cant reason with unreasonable people. Cant some one lock this thread or delete it.

If you stop arguing here I bet this thread will die out.

[cruzila]

That is the way it is in the national forests here in florida. The trails are closed unless posted open. That way no one can steal a 'closed' sign and say they never saw it.

If you take the word of the Forest Service at face value, you are making a mistake. That closed unless open crap is not the case here in California NF.

Know the rules. It is incumbent on YOU to do the research. That is what Jerry92 is doing. He just does not realize that this is not the place to find the answer to his specific question.

[TIMS89CRAWLER]

If you take the word of the Forest Service at face value, you are making a mistake. That closed unless open crap is not the case here in California NF.

Know the rules. It is incumbent on YOU to do the research. That is what Jerry92 is doing. He just does not realize that this is not the place to find the answer to his specific question.

also keep in mind that not everyone on this board lives in california..... california has much more strict laws than most states especially on topics of this sort... I am staying out of the rest of this talk...