Topic: FJ-80 SAS?

[hudlenutz]

I was looking around and found a sas'd Suzuki that used an 80 series axle instead of a D44,D60, or Toyota mini.  Has anyone done this on their Toy? 

Are there pros and cons to this?
 

[hudlenutz [OP]]

Forgot the link:

http://www.houlster.com/amigo/SAS/

[hudlenutz [OP]]

Looks like they go for just under $1000 for a complete assembly on the junkyard pages.  If I'm thinking about the right thing, these are coil sprung with radius arms, and they already have the high-pinion third with the selectable locker.  If these are wide and strong enough, would this be a cheaper or better option than adapting a 85/older toyota axles (I have a 91 pickup, looking at SAS'n it)?  Anyone know how wide they are?

The thing I really like about the older axles it that 30spline cromo birfield conversion that seems to take all and any abuse, so I wonder what's out there for the 80series birfs.

[FIREBALL]

If you can find an 80 front for under $1000 that's a great deal. Yes they are originally coil sprung, with radius arms. They do have an 8" high pinion, and some came with e-lockers.
They are much wider than a mini truck axle.....63", and the birfield is about an inch in diameter larger than the mini truck. I think Bobby Long is now making birfs for the 80's.
About the biggest obsticle to overcome is the steering arm set up. Stock the arms come off the bottom of the knuckle, and the upper bearing cap is only a 2 bolt cap. There is a company making arms for the top, and a few home brew ideas too. If you went full hydraulic it wouldn't really matter.

[Marketing]

The FJ80 axle is a great axle to start with for a swap.

We now offer heavy duty chromolly inner axles and birfields...

[hudlenutz [OP]]

Since this thread got re-filed, I'll update some of my research:   

Called a pick'n pull in Nebraska 8hrs from my house. They've got an FJ80 front for $800.  It's the full floater with the electric locker.  Comes with everything that's normally attached to the axle (coils, radius arms, steering stuff). 

I really can't see doing leafs.  I know they can be designed to work just as well as many coil/link suspensions, but I'm committed to climbing up the technology tree on this project.  With a link setup you control axle wrap, have better departure/approach angles, better ride quality, and road manners, with all the flex and traction that I'll need.  Here's a great intro to 4-links:
http://4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/suspension/131_0307_link/
A great book on the subject is Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken and Milliken.  I'm a mechanical engineering student, so this sort of thing is a lot of fun.

Pre-IFS hubs are required to convert the 80 from its stock drive flanges.  I'd use the fj brakes, and change to the larger cruiser master cylindar to help with stopping all the extra weight of big tires. 

The thing that's really got me stumped is the steering.  Stock, the arms attatch to the bottom of the knuckle, which sucks.  Just from looking at pictures, there are two holes on top of the knuckle (bearing cap?), but It doesn't seem like two bolts would be enough for a beefy suspension buildup.  Without getting my hands on an axle, I'm betting there's not enough material there to machine a few more holes for custom steering arms.  Fireball had mentioned full hydraulic steering, but he did a custom setup using the top bolts, so I'll check into those options. 

The reason I originally considered the fj80 front axle swap was:
-the mini axle is narrower than my ifs rear.  As I lift the truck up, I also want to go wider to keep it stable.
-the mini axle has problems with birfs.  There's two ways to fix a weak part: make it bigger, or make it out of better material.  With the 80, I can do both
-the mini axle is low pinion.  T'ain't nuthin wrong with that, but I'd like the high pinion for clearance and drive shaft angles.
-the mini is open diff'd.  The 80 can be purchased with the toyota e-locker.  The truck will continue to serve mild DD duties, so it needs to be road friendly (selectable locker is mandatory)
- By the time I put chromo longs, a high pinion diff, a selctable locker, wheel spacers, fj brakes and a new truss on a mini axle, I'd have spent plenty more than the 80 would cost.
-I considered other full width options D44, D60, but I think the 80 is comparable for what I want, and I like the idea of keeping things Toyota.

As I go, I'll keep this updated with what I find.  I think the 80 swap could be the SAS meat and potatoes for the future.

[FIREBALL]

If you're running the ifs rear, the 80 is going to be A LOT wider than the rear. An 80 front is 63"s.
You should be able to pick up a mini housing cheap. Or a complete front end for 2 or 3 hundred. Sell the front 3rd or save it for a spare. You're doing an SAS, so you have almost all the parts you need to convert to the ifs rotors and calipers, which also gives you the extra 3" to match the rear end.
You could probably buy the HP elocker from the wrecking yard from a 80 with a bent housing.
Not trying to discourage you from the 80, but you can build a mini front without spending too much more than the 80, and you don't have to deal with the 2 bolt top cap.

[hudlenutz [OP]]

It looks like there're several homebrew ideas out there for steering.  I found some arms from OTT in Canada that would fix some of my problems, but they are wicked expensive.      They look sturdy though.  If I go ahead with the swap, I think I'll use them. 

[hudlenutz [OP]]

It looks like I could use Marlin's Pitman for the fj80 tie rod ends, get a tie rod and drag link custom sized, and be good to go.  I'd even get to keep the ifs box, which would be sweet.  The OTT arms put the steering in front of and above the axle.  With the high pinion diff and links behind, I think that's where I'll want the steering to be.

[Scott39]

Since this thread got re-filed, I'll update some of my research:   

Called a pick'n pull in Nebraska 8hrs from my house. They've got an FJ80 front for $800.  It's the full floater with the electric locker.  Comes with everything that's normally attached to the axle (coils, radius arms, steering stuff). 

hudlenutz, do you have any leads on where to get an FJ80 front axle?
I plan on doing the same thing to my 90 toy excab.
Scott

[hudlenutz [OP]]

Well, I'm sort of working on this presently...

I started out here:  http://www.car-part.com

The best looking deal is this one in Mississippi.  Shipping would suck, the axle's $650, but it's got 153,000mi on it.  I think they could freight it to a depot station where it could be picked up, but I'm not sure yet.
Here's the yard that has it:
Dixie Auto Parts, Inc. USA-MS(Columbus) E-mail 1-800-720-5355

I'm going to give a few yards a call that didn't list a price, to see what the general concensus is before I commit to buying one.  At this point, I wouldn't pay more than $900 for what I'm looking for. 

Let me know if you find any good sources.   

[hudlenutz [OP]]

Today I roughed out a simple simulation of a 4 link in SolidWorks.  I'll keep the model updated as I get my hands on a cruiser axle to measure.  Until then, enjoy...

[hudlenutz [OP]]

Before someone jumps on my driveshaft sized linkages, I must admit, it's not to scale...

[Matty]

if you are going to put the 80 front end in it do you know what rearend you are going to run??  because i've been toying with the idea too, but i didnt know what to run rear. 

he runs a T100 rearend.... http://www.offroadsolutions.com/projects/934runner.htm

any other ideas?? to keep it toyota at least...

[crawlerdan]

ive got an 80 series high pinion with an e locker, i love it, would never go back to a low pinion or a non-selectable locker.
and if you can get all thta tat cheap...buy it, if you dont like it, you should sell it and make mass profit

[Matty]

ive got an 80 series high pinion with an e locker, i love it, would never go back to a low pinion or a non-selectable locker.
and if you can get all thta tat cheap...buy it, if you dont like it, you should sell it and make mass profit

isnt your front end a lot wider than the rear then?? assuming you are running a normal 8in rearend. 

EDIT: i just looked at your thread, so thats a mini housing with a land cruiser chunk in it???

[crawlerdan]

isnt your front end a lot wider than the rear then?? assuming you are running a normal 8in rearend. 

EDIT: i just looked at your thread, so thats a mini housing with a land cruiser chunk in it???

I wanted to use the mini truck 4 bolt steering arms, so i cut the knuckles off the landcruiser axle and added mini truck knuckles bells, and birfeilds, with custom inner shafts.the benifits are it wider, housings a little stronger, and i gusseted the crap of where i added the new bells and knuckles, yes it wider than the raer, but i like it that way, and i added spacers to the rear

[hudlenutz [OP]]

To match the rear, I was thinking about using the tacoma axle.  The cruiser front is 63.5", and the Tacoma is 60".  The T-100 is close to 67 inches.  I could add spacers to the taco axle, and maybe I could get one with the locker. 

Crawlerdan, is this the axle in your 'new landcruiser axle' post?  Sounds like a lot of work, but a sweet setup.

[crawlerdan]

To match the rear, I was thinking about using the tacoma axle.  The cruiser front is 63.5", and the Tacoma is 60".  The T-100 is close to 67 inches.  I could add spacers to the taco axle, and maybe I could get one with the locker. 

Crawlerdan, is this the axle in your 'new landcruiser axle' post?  Sounds like a lot of work, but a sweet setup.

ya it that one, worth the time, like i have anything better to do

[AKADVENTURER]

 FJ 80 axles front and rear along with a orion t-case! This is the idea i am toying with.

[hudlenutz [OP]]

I thought about the same setup, but I think the 80 rear is offset , which is a bummer, because I don't feel like changing to the cruiser offset output drivetrain. 

So what's an orion transfer case?

[AKADVENTURER]

 The Orion t-case is the beef for landcruiser t-cases. Just came out in the last year. I have seen it tested, not bad! But with the help of marlins adapters you can make an orion work in a taco behind another gear box! You would still have an all toyota drivetrain. Really cool idea! Its only money right

[AKADVENTURER]

 Hudlenutz is your taco a standard cab with a 3.4L? If so that has been what i have been contiplating for the last week instead of t-4 sas. I was thinking going SAS on a standard cab taco with a 3.4L keeping the 5spd to a gear box and then to the orion t-case with gears on top of FJ80 axles.

[hudlenutz [OP]]

No taco for me....

It's a 91 pickup, ... mini... hilux, whatever.  It's got the adrenaline pumping 2.4L 22RE in it with the trusty ole W-56 5spd.

Good call on the idea though.  I think the 80 axles would look a little more at home under the wider truck.  You might have to move the gas tank to clear the driveshaft, but that's only details. 

My truck's not going to be standard cab for long, I hope.  I like the wheelbase, but want more room in the cab, so I'm going to try the cab swab with an extended cab.  That project is slated for spring break. 

Sounds like a sweet builup.  Let me know how it goes.