Topic: Front tire wear, help

[toyodaaddict]

 Hey guys. While replacing a caliper on my 1980, I discovered some concerning tire wear.  The inside half of my front tires are wearing a lot more than the outside half.

The old tires where 33s and wore fine. The new tires are 35s and I only have maybe 5000 miles on them. The back tires (spooled rear) look great.

Any ideas on what's causing this, what should I check for?

[mudmaster]

Sounds like the alignment is off

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Sounds like the alignment is off

Would going from 33s to 35s change the alignment that much? I had my alignment done years ago and tacked the rod end jam nuts, so im assuming it hasnt changed

[OVRAROK]

Inside shoulder wear on tire.. sounds like toe alignment is off

[mudmaster]

Would going from 33s to 35s change the alignment that much? I had my alignment done years ago and tacked the rod end jam nuts, so im assuming it hasnt changed

No

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

 I'll see about having my alignment checked. Thanks guys

[Toyotadon]

Toe wear is typically feathered, meaning your hand will slide smoothly across the tread in one direction, but feel roughness the other way. If it's just worn more on the inside, you may have a camber issue. Of course, camber is not adjustable on the straight axle, so instead you would be looking at the the knuckle/trunion bearings.

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Toe wear is typically feathered, meaning your hand will slide smoothly across the tread in one direction, but feel roughness the other way. If it's just worn more on the inside, you may have a camber issue. Of course, camber is not adjustable on the straight axle, so instead you would be looking at the the knuckle/trunion bearings.

I'm not seeing or feeling any feathering.  Are you thinking the trunnion bearings need replaced? I replaced them about 7 years ago and the truck doesnt have very many miles. I didnt think they would be giving me trouble so soon.  Is there a good way to check them, like wheel bearings?

[Toyotadon]

I would jack up the front end (or one side at a time) and do the checks like you do for a wheel bearing. Grab the tire at top and bottom, and try to move it. Any movement would then have to be pinpointed, possibly with a helper. Let us know what you find.

[Pat]

You can indeed get a smooth uneven wear with just the toe being out.  Do as he described above,  Check for slop in you axle trunnion's, suspension and steering.   Another thing all though less likely if you have seen quick tire wear is, Toyota axle housings being bent.  Bent for 2 different reasons,   One is from  folks welding the piss out of them with brackets, trusses and the like with no thought put into keeping them straight.  The second is huge tires.  These housings are simply sheet metal and can bend fairly easily with a little too much heat or extreme loads like big tires or extreme positive off sets and wheel spacers.  I have seen housings bent bad enough to change the camber considerably.  Anyways dive under there and check everything out so you are not simply just chasing your tail.  Good luck.

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

I would jack up the front end (or one side at a time) and do the checks like you do for a wheel bearing. Grab the tire at top and bottom, and try to move it. Any movement would then have to be pinpointed, possibly with a helper. Let us know what you find.

ok, I jacked up one tire at a time. I tried rocking the tires top to bottom as if checking wheel bearings. Everything felt tight.  I tried rocking the tire side to side and the only movement I felt was when the other tire would start to turn.

Tie rod ends all look good. The tie rod jam nuts are still tacked to the tie rod and the tie rod does not appear bent.  The truck tracks pretty straight going down the road.

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

You can indeed get a smooth uneven wear with just the toe being out.  Do as he described above,  Check for slop in you axle trunnion's, suspension and steering.   Another thing all though less likely if you have seen quick tire wear is, Toyota axle housings being bent.  Bent for 2 different reasons,   One is from  folks welding the piss out of them with brackets, trusses and the like with no thought put into keeping them straight.  The second is huge tires.  These housings are simply sheet metal and can bend fairly easily with a little too much heat or extreme loads like big tires or extreme positive off sets and wheel spacers.  I have seen housings bent bad enough to change the camber considerably.  Anyways dive under there and check everything out so you are not simply just chasing your tail.  Good luck.

I sure hope its not a bent housing. Its on 35s now but most of my wheeling was done on 33s and Ive never been too hard on the truck.  I do have 1.5 spacers. No aftermarket armor or trussing other than a diff guard.
Visually inspecting, nothing is standing out.  Everything is feeling tight to me. Hopefully both fronts having the same wear is an indicator its not bent. Wouldnt it be more likely to have one side wearing worse/different than the other?

 

[Pat]

A bent housing is the least likely scenario.  But worth mentioning.  Do a YouTube search on setting toe at home.  Super easy to do.  Takes about 5 minutes

[gnob]

Have you put a tape measure to it yet?

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Have you put a tape measure to it yet?

I have not. What should I be measuring, the toe alignment?

[Pat]

Google or YouTube search how to set toe...

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Im familiar with the idea of clamping some kind of straight edge to the rotors and measuring. I have tried this in the past on another truck, it worked well enough to get things in the ball park. Im struggling to come up with something to clamp the rotors that is perfectly straight, that will allow me to get an accurate measurement.  I will see what I can come up with.

[Pat]

I always do it with tires on.  A use chalk,  Jack up the truck and put a 1 or 2 inch wide chalk mark on the tire by spinning it.  Then I take a sharp edge or screww drive and scribe a fine line in the chalk on each tire by spinning  it again(I use a 4x4 piece of wood to stabilize the screw driver and make a perfect line).  Then lower off Jack and roll truck back and forth a few times to get the wheels and everything  settled back out.  Then measure front and back of tires on this fine line.  Works great

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

I always do it with tires on.  A use chalk,  Jack up the truck and put a 1 or 2 inch wide chalk mark on the tire by spinning it.  Then I take a sharp edge or screww drive and scribe a fine line in the chalk on each tire (I use a 4x4 piece of wood to stabilize the screw driver and make a perfect line).  Then lower off Jack and roll truck back and forth a few times to get the wheels and everything  settled back out.  Then measure front and back of tires on this fine line.  Works great

This sounds like a good method to try. Thank you

[Pat]

You bet. 

[OOPS]

Made my own alignment bars and marked them for tire size I am running!! Bars and a tape measure work fine!!

[Gnarly4X]

My experience with tire wear is over the last 55 years.  On my 4 trucks, every one had uneven wear on the front tires.  I am anal about vibrations, wheel alignment, and tire balance.

On my 86 and 85 trucks I ran 33’s (about 18 years of wheeling), and several brands and tread designs, mostly MUD-type treads.  Both trucks had uneven wear in the front tires, from edge wear, feathering, and mostly cupping.  I was diligent about balancing.  My wheel alignment, toe-in, front end and steering parts were all tight and within spec.  The only way I could help “even” the uneven wear was to rotate the tires front to back and cross them.  I usually rotated the tires about every 5,000 miles.  If after rotating them, there was any vibrations, I had the tires balanced and Discount Tire and told them NOT to rotate the tires.  Now… with my 33’s I ran about 25-27 psi in the fronts and 22-24 psi in the rears.  That PSI gave me the best wear and still offered a softer ride on the highway.

My way of checking toe-in was just jacking up the front end, spinning the tires with sharp screwdriver, making a dark line in the center of each tread, then I simply measured the distance between to two lines in the front and then in the back. I set the toe-in at 1/8"... as I remember.


Gnarls. 

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Made my own alignment bars and marked them for tire size I am running!! Bars and a tape measure work fine!!

I've seen your setup posted before and it looks good. The trouble I'm running into is finding 3 foot pieces that are perfectly straight.  The local metal yard gets there angle iron in like 20' lengths and it's bowed a bit from hanging on the rack.  I figure if one of my bars (or both) is off just 1/16" that's going to have a pretty good impact on my 1/8" toe measurement .  I may be over thinking this, I don't know but that's where I'm at.  The truck does plenty of street miles and I don't want to keep burning up tires.

[Pat]

Using chalk and Scribing the line in the tire like described above doesnt get any easier, quicker or more accurate.  You need to be checking toe with weight on the vehicle and tires on it.  Removes variables..

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

My experience with tire wear is over the last 55 years.  On my 4 trucks, every one had uneven wear on the front tires.  I am anal about vibrations, wheel alignment, and tire balance.

On my 86 and 85 trucks I ran 33’s (about 18 years of wheeling), and several brands and tread designs, mostly MUD-type treads.  Both trucks had uneven wear in the front tires, from edge wear, feathering, and mostly cupping.  I was diligent about balancing.  My wheel alignment, toe-in, front end and steering parts were all tight and within spec.  The only way I could help “even” the uneven wear was to rotate the tires front to back and cross them.  I usually rotated the tires about every 5,000 miles.  If after rotating them, there was any vibrations, I had the tires balanced and Discount Tire and told them NOT to rotate the tires.  Now… with my 33’s I ran about 25-27 psi in the fronts and 22-24 psi in the rears.  That PSI gave me the best wear and still offered a softer ride on the highway.

My way of checking toe-in was just jacking up the front end, spinning the tires with sharp screwdriver, making a dark line in the center of each tread, then I simply measured the distance between to two lines in the front and then in the back. I set the toe-in at 1/8"... as I remember.


Gnarls. 

luckily, until now I have never had any significant tire wear issues on solid axle Toyota's. This is pretty bad though. It has definitely decreased the life of the tires a fair amount, and in only 5000 miles.  After finding the wear, I went ahead and rotated them. Front driver to passenger rear and front passenger to driver rear.

[toyodaaddict [OP]]

Using chalk and Scribing the line in the tire like described above doesnt get any easier, quicker or more accurate.  You need to be checking toe with weight on the vehicle and tires on it.  Removes variables..

I dislocated my knee pretty good yesterday, so It will be a few days before I get back to the truck.
 My plan is to use your chalk/screwdriver method to get an idea of whats going on.  Depending on what I find, I may end up trying to find a shop that is familiar with solid axle/high steer Toyota's, that can confirm whats going on and really dial it in (if needed). The truck spends plenty of time on the street and the tires are to expensive to worry about burning them up.

[Pat]

Setting the toe is all you are going to set. That being said  I do remember there beinga Shim meant for under the spindle for camber.  And then you could use shim under leaf spring for castor.  But again as far as tire wear short of a bent housing or blown out trunion bearings toe is really the only thing that gets out of wack.  Good luck either way.  Just dont make it a bigger deal than what it is.