Author Topic: Toybrota's 22R build  (Read 29308 times)

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Toybrota

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #450 on: Mar 27, 2019, 08:52:36 PM »
Got some new bolts, and the gasket arrived today.

I've decided to section the gasket, I'll cut the center plate portion and EGR portions off of the gasket.
There's plenty of spacing between the components to allow for a clean cut that won't affect sealing.

I didn't remove my EGR block plate a second time, so I just left it on. This is why I'm cutting the EGR portion off.

The center block portion is gonna get cut out so I can use sealant. I've decided I'll use what I used on every other gasket on this motor (Minus the HG, of course).
The "right stuff" black on both sides, and installed. I know not everyone agrees with this method, and I'm willing to admit I was wrong if it doesn't go as planned. It's worked before.

H8PVMNT made a fantastic suggestion to use a copper spray/sealant. If the first method fails, I'll definitely use this.
I have a buddy that had a timing cover leak on his 22RE, after a fresh Head gasket/timing cover job. He sprayed some of that copper stuff at the gasket and it stopped. Stoked to be able to drive this thing soon! Tomorrow is what I'm aiming for.


Something unrelated to the engine, but to the truck.
Another buddy has this custom made slide in camper in his 85' single cab (sister to mine) and he loves it. Made in California, $1800. Not a bad price for what you get, full interior of carpet and lights/wood paneling (don't quote me on that).
I'd love to spend several weeks in the desert this summer/fall in the aforementioned abandoned mines. I'd love to spend it in something reliable and comfortable. So I think I may get one soon.
Anyone run campers occasionally?

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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #451 on: Mar 28, 2019, 01:30:15 PM »
Radiator is installed, intake installed, and she's up and running.
The radiator was a direct bolt on fit, no cutting or anything required to get it in. The original fan shroud even fits!
I'm amazed at the quality. It's got a 15psi rad cap. I may bump that down to a 13, which is what stock is.
The temperature obviously still fluctuates, as all cooling systems do. Just not as much as before.
While driving it's from 175-190. While idling, it's from 180- just below 200. I thought about modifying the thermostat (drilling a hole) like many have Suggested. I still may do that, to allow coolant flow constantly.
180 to right below 200 sounds reasonable to me.

Going to go drive it some more and see how she runs.

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joeyf

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #452 on: Mar 28, 2019, 01:55:48 PM »
That's a nice looking rad, what brand. What are you looking to know about the camper, I have a slide in that I use a lot in the summer.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #453 on: Mar 28, 2019, 02:02:30 PM »
That's a nice looking rad, what brand.


10-4!!!!!!!!  :gap:

Gnarls. :thumbs:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #454 on: Mar 28, 2019, 02:30:44 PM »
After a quick drive around, I took it up a hill here in SLC. The temp stayed "normal" the whole time, but went up to 210! Fan didn't kick on.
At this point, I'm just going to assume the temp rising to 210 is Normal. I may drill a hole in the thermostat and see if it makes a difference? LCE told me 180-210 is completely acceptable. The thermostat itself fully opens at 212.

Should I just stop worrying and drive the damn thing? If there was a real overheating issue (HG) it wouldn't fluctuate, it'd constantly climb.

Only other thing I can think of is a dual stage thermostat.


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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #455 on: Mar 28, 2019, 02:34:51 PM »
That's a nice looking rad, what brand. What are you looking to know about the camper, I have a slide in that I use a lot in the summer.
It's an eBay rad. Only $118!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F382696317371

Do you run heavier duty springs in the rear with your camper? My main concern is suspension sag. That, and stability on the road.

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joeyf

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #456 on: Mar 28, 2019, 03:19:00 PM »
Do you run heavier duty springs in the rear with your camper? My main concern is suspension sag. That, and stability on the road.

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Yes i run heavy springs. You will get lots of sway if you dont.

You can try grabbing flat over loads from any truck at a junk yard. Then mount bump stops at the ends of them so your leafs sit on them before the camper is slid on.

When your not using the slide in take the bump stops off so you still have a nice ride.

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #457 on: Mar 28, 2019, 05:57:56 PM »
Yes i run heavy springs. You will get lots of sway if you dont.

You can try grabbing flat over loads from any truck at a junk yard. Then mount bump stops at the ends of them so your leafs sit on them before the camper is slid on.

When your not using the slide in take the bump stops off so you still have a nice ride.
I like this idea! Thanks, I'll definitely go this route. Bump stops are important. Don't want the springs anymore inverted than they already are!

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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #458 on: Mar 28, 2019, 05:59:30 PM »
Drove the truck to work tonight. Stayed at 200 and below. I'm going to just continue to drive it.
I will however, purchase the dual stage thermostat from Toyota to help with the temp swings.

This weekend I'll try and get the AFR gauge installed. Someone basically told me the narrow band aren't accurate enough to tune, but I'm sure it'll be fine.

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H8PVMNT

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #459 on: Mar 29, 2019, 04:08:18 AM »
That's rad. ;)
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

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"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #460 on: Mar 29, 2019, 11:50:53 AM »
Air fuel ratio gauge Installed. Fits great in this location.
Also installed a 180 thermostat, truck runs nice and cool. Between 170-190. Which I'd say is perfect!
Truck runs pretty good, Definitely runs rich. It's a dog if you get on it. I'm going to drop jet sizes on the main and secondary and see if that improves it. Which is should. 

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« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2019, 12:31:11 PM by Toybrota »

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #461 on: Mar 29, 2019, 12:45:21 PM »
Please keep us updated on Your temp as You drive it.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #462 on: Mar 29, 2019, 01:46:59 PM »
Please keep us updated on Your temp as You drive it.
Will do. Went ahead and pulled the first spark plugs and (Cyl #1) to get an idea if it's running overly rich/lean. Plug actually looks pretty good



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Gillesdetrail

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #463 on: Mar 29, 2019, 01:55:34 PM »
Good choice on the 180 thermostat, i had the same experience as you. On my 20/22r with weber 38, to have it bog or be sluggish because of a too rich condition, it has to be extremely rich, where the gauge shows 9:1 afr which is the lowest it will register. However, a slightly lean hiccup can cause it to bog or hesistate, as little as 16:1 on acceleration. Keep us updated this is interesting!

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #464 on: Mar 29, 2019, 02:57:41 PM »
Looks lean to Me
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #465 on: Mar 29, 2019, 04:21:46 PM »
Looks lean to Me
That's what I'm thinking. Not that lean, definitely not a dangerous level. I definitely don't get good gas mileage, so I'm curious as to why it's running lean. More discoveries to be made.

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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #466 on: Mar 29, 2019, 04:22:50 PM »
Good choice on the 180 thermostat, i had the same experience as you. On my 20/22r with weber 38, to have it bog or be sluggish because of a too rich condition, it has to be extremely rich, where the gauge shows 9:1 afr which is the lowest it will register. However, a slightly lean hiccup can cause it to bog or hesistate, as little as 16:1 on acceleration. Keep us updated this is interesting!
Will do! My narrowband gauge might not be accurate enough to get perfect readings, but I'll see. The 180 thermostat is Definitely nice! Heater seems to have taken a small hit in performance from it.

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #467 on: Mar 29, 2019, 07:28:53 PM »
After a quick drive around, I took it up a hill here in SLC. The temp stayed "normal" the whole time, but went up to 210! Fan didn't kick on.
At this point, I'm just going to assume the temp rising to 210 is Normal. I may drill a hole in the thermostat and see if it makes a difference? LCE told me 180-210 is completely acceptable. The thermostat itself fully opens at 212.

Should I just stop worrying and drive the damn thing? If there was a real overheating issue (HG) it wouldn't fluctuate, it'd constantly climb.

Only other thing I can think of is a dual stage thermostat.


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A dual stage t-stat will not be noticeable.

Drilling a hole in the t-stat will not be noticeable.

A 50/50 coolant mix raises the boiling point to 223d F.

Add a 13 lbs radiator cap to a healthy sealed and closed coolant system with a 50/50 coolant mix it will not boil at 250d F.

I don't think you have anything to worry about if your mechanical temp gauge goes to 220d F.

Just my experience.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #468 on: Mar 30, 2019, 06:03:59 AM »
Will do. Went ahead and pulled the first spark plugs and (Cyl #1) to get an idea if it's running overly rich/lean. Plug actually looks pretty good


My plugs looked very similar after break in and a few hundred miles on my 22RE rebuild.

If the mixture is on the lean side, it's very slight.

In a naturally aspirated carb'd engine, two factors that can effect AFR and AFR readings is Relative Humidity and Barometric pressure.  For example:

Increasing ambient humidity from 32% to 60% retards combustion phasing, reduces maximum pressure rise rate, increases coefficient of variation (COV) of indicated mean effective pressure (IMEP), reduces NOx, and increases brake-specific fuel consumption (BSFC).

For every 1,000 increase in elevation from sea level, a change in jet size could be required.

So.... readings on an AFR gauge may be tricky to evaluate correctly in order make any changes to the carb jetting.

In a 22R, you will lose about 3 to 4 HP for every 1,000 feet increase in elevation from sea level.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #469 on: Mar 30, 2019, 12:52:02 PM »
O2 bung and sensor installed. Perfect timing too, I checked my MPG today. I got 12.5 mpg!
Plugs don't say it's running rich... Glad I got this gauge. I do know that I will be changing the Main/secondary Jets first.
Turns out also, I don't have a catalytic converter. Which is interesting. This truck prior to me purchasing it was NOT registered as a classic, so it had to abide by the local emissions rules.

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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #470 on: Mar 30, 2019, 05:12:32 PM »
Update. AFR gauge installed and hooked up!

Shows between 19.0 and 20.0 at idle, which is INCREDIBLY lean. There's no way it runs this lean, the plugs don't even reflect it running THAT lean.
This is a Narrowband gauge mind you, but still.

While cruising at 2,000 ish RPM, it shows between 14.0 to 16.0, which is better. Almost perfect.

If it was really running as lean as it said, I'd be willing to bet it'd be backfiring and running like crap. Which it isn't, I've been driving it all day.

I haven't played with the main jets or air correctors yet, I'll have to do that either tomorrow or Monday.

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emsvitil

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #471 on: Mar 30, 2019, 06:23:17 PM »
Heated or unheated O2 sensor?

If unheated,  sensor isn't  hot enough at idle for valid reading.
Ed
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86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #472 on: Mar 30, 2019, 06:33:50 PM »
Heated or unheated O2 sensor?

If unheated,  sensor isn't  hot enough at idle for valid reading.
Well that makes a ton of sense. I'm guessing it's not a heated sensor. Guess I can stop freaking out about it running too lean.
I'll be more concerned about the readings while cruising/under load, as that's where it matters most.
I have my 02 sensor mounted where the cat would've been. Too far back?

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« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2019, 07:48:15 PM by Toybrota »

Gillesdetrail

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #473 on: Mar 31, 2019, 06:21:46 AM »
The company Innovative recommends at least 24" downstream from the exhaust port, but they don't say how far is too far, and AEM recommends at least 36". I think your location is good, seems to be within a couple of inches where I placed mine. The important thing is to install it between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, ideally at 12. That way the moisture and condensation doesn't accumulate in the sensor, this reduces the life of the o2 dramatically.

Tune the idle to maximum vacuum and where the engine runs best and don't focus on the AFR reading. This is a tip I have seen mentionned in many tuning tutorials, I ended up at around 12.3-12.5 at idle.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #474 on: Mar 31, 2019, 08:49:52 AM »
The company Innovative recommends at least 24" downstream from the exhaust port, but they don't say how far is too far, and AEM recommends at least 36". I think your location is good, seems to be within a couple of inches where I placed mine. The important thing is to install it between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, ideally at 12. That way the moisture and condensation doesn't accumulate in the sensor, this reduces the life of the o2 dramatically.

Tune the idle to maximum vacuum and where the engine runs best and don't focus on the AFR reading. This is a tip I have seen mentionned in many tuning tutorials, I ended up at around 12.3-12.5 at idle.

Hey G...   are you testing/evaluating AFR using a wide band AF Gauge and a heated O2 sensor?

I am curious what kind of AFR I would see on my 22RE.  But... I'm not sure what options I would have to actually change the AF mixture?

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #475 on: Mar 31, 2019, 09:12:57 AM »
The company Innovative recommends at least 24" downstream from the exhaust port, but they don't say how far is too far, and AEM recommends at least 36". I think your location is good, seems to be within a couple of inches where I placed mine. The important thing is to install it between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, ideally at 12. That way the moisture and condensation doesn't accumulate in the sensor, this reduces the life of the o2 dramatically.

Tune the idle to maximum vacuum and where the engine runs best and don't focus on the AFR reading. This is a tip I have seen mentionned in many tuning tutorials, I ended up at around 12.3-12.5 at idle.
Thanks for this tip, I agree completely about tuning it at idle to Max vacuum, I've heard others say that too.
Placement is important, I totally placed it wrong.
It still reads, but I know it won't last for long.

I'm totally planning on just getting a full blown Wideband AFR, and ditching this crap narrowband that tells me nothing.



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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #476 on: Mar 31, 2019, 02:38:38 PM »
That's a picture of a unheated narrowband sensor.

It's more robust than the wideband sensors innovate and other use.

The placement won't kill it.

It will only cool off at idle and not have a valid reading.



I've used a narrowband, digital voltmeter and a graph like this:


Ed
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22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #477 on: Mar 31, 2019, 03:00:15 PM »
Interesting results on the cooling system. My truck has no catalytic converter either... maybe they didn't come on the carb trucks??

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #478 on: Mar 31, 2019, 04:14:57 PM »
Worked on tuning today.

I changed both main Jets to size 135. Which is the smallest I have, currently. I Definitely noticed it is less sluggish, so hopefully that'll help with the MPG.
I changed the air Jets as well, I think the primary is a 180 and the secondary a 165.
Idle jets are both 55, which is a tad rich. About 1.5 turns out on the mixture.

Runs well, filled up with gas. 91 octane. I'll drive it and see how my MPG is.

I included pictures of all the spark plugs, they look pretty good.

When I mash it, it shows about 15.0 on the AFR gauge.



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« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2019, 04:25:14 PM by Toybrota »

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #479 on: Mar 31, 2019, 04:47:13 PM »
Just got off the freeway after taking it for a test.

Holds and maintains 70 no problem. Feels a little less powerful than the stock carb, I think it may be a tad too rich still.

Timing is at 0, early 22R calls for 5. LCE told me 0 despite what Toyota says.

Under full power the AFR gauge shows 13ish, which from what I understand is good for underload.

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« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2019, 04:59:46 PM by Toybrota »

 
 
 
 
 

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