Author Topic: Time for some superior shocks. (Read 7560 times)

MRHilux87 · « **on:** Mar 11, 2015, 10:27:08 AM »

This is not another, "are bilstiens a good shock to run" topic. Don't worry.

Ive had a handfull of toyotas, most with either cheap white ranchos or bistiens. Ive mounted them at several different angles, /\ and they work ok. The straighter angles actually work better for everything but crawling. Obviously Bilstiens arent terrible, or everyone wouldn't use them, but when I take wheeling trips I have a loaded, heavy rig and sometimes even a trailer with a RZR on it. So all loaded up I still get alot of swaying on the freeway/highway. That being said Im looking for something better. Ive been looking at options and Im kinda confused, because they all make claims at being superior. Hoping some of you have some experience with some newer, different brands.
These are what I'm looking at:
https://www.allprooffroad.com/8489suspension/8689shocks/300

https://www.allprooffroad.com/fjrearsuspension/fjcrearshocks/297

http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17

http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_26&products_id=2

I know I could get great results from 1000+ kings or fox setups (with the right valving and adjustment) but like you guys I work for my money, so Im trying to be reasonable. If I can spend around 200 a shock and have a noticeable improvement Id be happy.
Thanks.

megaphoneman · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 01:18:05 PM »

reasonable and shocks aren't in the same sentence...
with that said..
What are you going for?
a better ride? on road? is this going on an fj series truck?
a cummins?
a 4runner?
we have used all the big company shocks on stuff we have built..
need more info on truck... and use...

emsvitil · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 01:46:40 PM »

With a wide variance in load, what about the adjustable Rancho 9000s

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 03:43:24 PM »

Its on my four runner. Sorry didn't specify. I just want to get rid of the crazy swaying on the road when Im all loaded down, and I want it to work decent at low speeds in the rocks. It gets wheeled pretty often, but I drive to the trails, including 7 hrs to rubicon. I know that a leaf sprung rig is gonna ride like a leaf sprung rig. Its never gonna be a racer, but it feels under damped with bilstiens. It has to still stretch out.
I have some Ranchos right now that have one adjuster on them, not sure of the model. Turned all the way up they seem to help, but still want a little more.
What about emulsion shocks? Are they going to be superior to external res shocks?

blackdiamond · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 03:57:37 PM »

I have always been happy with my Rancho 9000 shocks and next week I will be making my 8th drive to Moab from WA which is an 2,200 mile round trip and I did the Rubicon for MCR7 and that was about 1,600 miles round trip. I really think your best bet is to either firm up your rear springs or possibly get some airbags to help the springs. I run the Ranchos all the way up most of the time and I definately get some roll that increases with added weight. Body roll and soft springs go hand in hand and I don't see any shock preventing it. Springs are what carry the load.

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 04:24:48 PM »

I was looking at a couple swaybar setups. I understand that the body roll isn't realy affected by the shocks, that is due to the springs. I might have to try the Ranchos. There are some people who complain about them, but that doesn't mean anything.

megaphoneman · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 04:27:26 PM »

Sounds like you need a valve-able shock..
the nicer FOA's would work.. sway away is a decent price tag and nicer shock

i have valveable fox 2.0's on my truck...
Icon also makes a great shock!

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 04:41:23 PM »

What are the advantages of the emulsion shocks vs the external res standard style shocks? I like that foa builds them to your spec of valving and oil.

megaphoneman · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 04:50:05 PM »

in an emulsion shock the air, and the oil mix...causing break down of oil.. and decreases the viscocity of the shock...
in a resi shock the air has its own chamber in the resi.

Personally i would stay away from FOA...although i was going to run some coil overs on my craweler from them cause they are cheap. but i decided against linking it at the time.
How ever they are better then 5150's by far!

the ability to learn how to work on these rebuild them and maintain them alone are worth it..
just go with resis..

jimbo74 · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 04:51:14 PM »

haven't seen this mentioned yet, but what about anti-swaybars? my old explorer ran them, I left them connected on the street, and just pulled some bolts off at the trail....

not sure if anyone makes them for the toyotas though, but if there is a will, there is a way.....

megaphoneman · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 07:49:43 PM »

Quote from: jimbo74 on Mar 11, 2015, 04:51:14 PM

haven't seen this mentioned yet, but what about anti-swaybars? my old explorer ran them, I left them connected on the street, and just pulled some bolts off at the trail....

not sure if anyone makes them for the toyotas though, but if there is a will, there is a way.....

This could be done.. But alot can be done with valving as well..

Blaaaahhhhhhhh

Dirt Mover · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 08:18:51 PM »

Maybe a nitrogen bump stop would help. When Freds40 put them on he told me it cornered like it was on rails. Pricey if it doesn't help

blackdiamond · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 08:30:41 PM »

For full disclosure, I didn't mind the Bilstein shocks that Marlin sells on the street and only replaced them because they would bottom out on the trail. The Ranchos have pretty much the same travel and I have never hit the bottom even with them set on 1. My shocks are in the stock configuration with slightly modified mounts.

Springs make similar looking setups apples and oranges. My rear springs are Alcans that are 5 inches over stock which is about 4 inches shorter than Marlin/All Pro/TG.

The one time that I really loaded it up we had four adults plus enough guns and ammo to form our own seal team and it wallowed down the road. It may have had the Bilsteins on it then, but I don't think the Ranchos would have been significantly different.

The remote reservoir shocks often just supply more oil to help with heat dissipation. Unless you are playing Baja it is unlikely that more volume will make much difference. This isn't true of every reservoir style shock I am sure.

kneedownnate · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 11:35:43 PM »

Another for rs9000 shocks. I am not a rock crawler and use my truck from everything from hauling the mail to hauling a couple engines/trannies or a load of wood. I can bump them down to #2 setting and have a reasonable ride on the road, then to #5 when hauling a load and they handle so much better. Plus they stiffen on both compression and rebound.

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 01:27:07 PM »

It's that 3RZ! Too heavy! Just kidding...

I can't tell you about high end shocks because I've never ran any. The rancho adjustables were OK and at full stiff they helped but after a few years they quit adjusting and were stuck on full soft. Now I run some big yellow monroes and they are about as good all around.

I had that same sway when loaded with camping gear and food. I ended up doing a few things and now it's gone completely.

The first thing was to ditch the common /\ rear shock mounting. This works great on pickups and dedicated crawlers but not on a loaded down expedition vehicle with a hard top. I ended up with my shocks nearly vertical and as close to the frame as possible. This helped enough to notice a difference.

Then I added leaves to my rear packs. I had some 3"lift chevy 63s with 4 or 5 leaves that worked great when my rig was a pickup. Not so great on the 4runner... I took off the lower arched leaves and added some stock leaves from some chevy 3/4 ton springs, the older 57" style. These were flatter stock leaves so they did not really add any lift to the springs. They might have even lowered about a half inch. I ended up with like 8 leaves total and an overload. I run 1 more leaf in the gas tank side to get an even, level ride. Oddly they still flex great and ride nice and smooth, even though they look like they belong on a 1 ton truck. I run rears up front. I peeled off all but the top three leaves and then added the lower 3 leaves from some stock front toy leaf packs. These look weird because most of the leaf material hangs to the back of the spring but it helps with handling some how. This helped noticeably.

Then I took off my 6"+ shackles and made some that were 3.5-4" like stock shackles, just beefier. I also put the cross braces in them with a bit of tube and a bolt sandwiching it tight to make them solid. At this time I also added stiffer than typical poly shackle bushings. This helped yet again.

All together I ended up lowering the truck about 2" and the bad sway your talking about is completely gone. It still has a bit more body roll in a hard turn than I would like when the top is on. When the top is off it rails like a bone stock pickup though! I would guess that would go away with a good sway bar setup or some really high end shocks. I'll probably try the sway bar sometime as I can't afford the uber-cool shocks.

I think Bigmike used a ford explorer front sway bar. I got one and it ended up being too wide to fit between things. It turns or he runs a wider FJ60 front housing so he has the room. Back to the drawing board on the cheap sway bar...

Good luck in your quest!

emsvitil · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 01:56:55 PM »

Quote from: H8PVMNT on Mar 12, 2015, 01:27:07 PM

......... The rancho adjustables were OK and at full stiff they helped but after a few years they quit adjusting and were stuck on full soft...............

Water gets into the adjuster and it rusts at whatever position it's been at for years....

I took off the plastic piece so I could see what was going on.

Derust the adjustment piston with multiple passes of penetrating oil, acid, rinse, repeat until the piston can move again.

When you put it back together, fill adjuster with ATF so it won't rust again.

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 02:35:38 PM »

Fill with ATF is a good trick! I gave those shocks to a buddy for his '85 4Runner so I'll tell him to do all that.

84Flatbed · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 03:45:03 PM »

I have an older pair of rancho 9000's, 5 position adjustable, about 13" travel. I know people say and maybe even rancho states that the 9000's can be mount either end up I find that not to be true. When I cycle them body up they feel like crap, they'll have a couple inches of almost no resistance then more resistance with fluid and air sound, very similar to the 5000's that are supposed to mounted shaft up. Cycle the 9000's shaft up and they have consistent resistance throughout the range of travel. I don't know if this has changed on newer versions but it's something to consider if there are any clearance issues with the body side down.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 05:58:39 PM »

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Mar 11, 2015, 10:27:08 AM

This is not another, "are bilstiens a good shock to run" topic. Don't worry.
Ive had a handfull of toyotas, most with either cheap white ranchos or bistiens. Ive mounted them at several different angles, /\ and they work ok. The straighter angles actually work better for everything but crawling. Obviously Bilstiens arent terrible, or everyone wouldn't use them, but when I take wheeling trips I have a loaded, heavy rig and sometimes even a trailer with a RZR on it. So all loaded up I still get alot of swaying on the freeway/highway. That being said Im looking for something better. Ive been looking at options and Im kinda confused, because they all make claims at being superior. Hoping some of you have some experience with some newer, different brands.
These are what I'm looking at:
https://www.allprooffroad.com/8489suspension/8689shocks/300

https://www.allprooffroad.com/fjrearsuspension/fjcrearshocks/297

http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17

http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_26&products_id=2

I know I could get great results from 1000+ kings or fox setups (with the right valving and adjustment) but like you guys I work for my money, so Im trying to be reasonable. If I can spend around 200 a shock and have a noticeable improvement Id be happy.
Thanks.

A better shock is one that you can tune. Straight up and own is awesome I don't what you're talking about them being not that good for rock crawling. Maybe you've got a different expectation then I do. You want a shock that works buy one that is tunable. NO ONE has a better shock then the one that is tailored to your needs. Manufacturer doesn't matter for the most part but there are a couple of companies I'd stay away from unless you like leaky oily shocks. But you seem to have found them already so......

megaphoneman · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 07:35:14 PM »

Quote from: TacoRunner on Mar 12, 2015, 05:58:39 PM

A better shock is one that you can tune. Straight up and own is awesome I don't what you're talking about them being not that good for rock crawling. Maybe you've got a different expectation then I do. You want a shock that works buy one that is tunable. NO ONE has a better shock then the one that is tailored to your needs. Manufacturer doesn't matter for the most part but there are a couple of companies I'd stay away from unless you like leaky oily shocks. But you seem to have found them already so......

Id listen to this guy... If i where you!

Blaaaahhhhhhhh

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 10:24:36 PM »

Quote from: TacoRunner on Mar 12, 2015, 05:58:39 PM

A better shock is one that you can tune. Straight up and own is awesome I don't what you're talking about them being not that good for rock crawling. Maybe you've got a different expectation then I do. You want a shock that works buy one that is tunable. NO ONE has a better shock then the one that is tailored to your needs. Manufacturer doesn't matter for the most part but there are a couple of companies I'd stay away from unless you like leaky oily shocks. But you seem to have found them already so......

Just the man I wanted to hear from. ...
Thanks everyone for the help. I am still planning on a front three link from 4wu, but until i get there I might as well fix the rear because I think if its wobbly now it might be worse with the three link. Either way it needs improved. Im going to take the hard top off and put the soft top on in a week or so, add one more leaf to my rear packs because they are too soft anyways, and then Im going to weld on my new lower shock mounts. They are from ruffstuff and go on the back side of the axle. With the mounts lower I can run the shocks nearly straight up and down again. From there I will most likely try the ranchos due to the good reviews and low cost. Then if those don't cut it I'll get some radflos valved by someone who knows what they are doing. I can play with it form there. I'll update on my thread and here.

TacoRunner · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 13, 2015, 07:29:21 AM »

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Mar 11, 2015, 10:27:08 AM

I know I could get great results from 1000+ kings or fox setups (with the right valving and adjustment) but like you guys I work for my money, so Im trying to be reasonable. If I can spend around 200 a shock and have a noticeable improvement Id be happy.
Thanks.

Here is your noticeable improvement. Check them out, let me know your

's or concerns
And no emulsion shocks are not as good as resi. They can be valved to get the same result but require more valving.

Choice #1 http://www.radflo.com/store/product/2-0-shock-body-emulsion-58-shaft-with-remote-reservoir/

Choice #2 http://www.radflo.com/store/product/2-0-shock-body-emulsion-58-shaft/

megaphoneman · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 13, 2015, 08:34:13 AM »

Quote from: TacoRunner on Mar 13, 2015, 07:29:21 AM

Here is your noticeable improvement. Check them out, let me know your 's or concerns
And no emulsion shocks are not as good as resi. They can be valved to get the same result but require more valving.

Choice #1 http://www.radflo.com/store/product/2-0-shock-body-emulsion-58-shaft-with-remote-reservoir/

Choice #2 http://www.radflo.com/store/product/2-0-shock-body-emulsion-58-shaft/

Hey while we are on the subject...what type of valving do you like for crawling?
for instance on my prerunner rear leaf springs, alot less rebound then compression.. would you do the exact opsite on crawlers?

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Mar 12, 2015, 10:24:36 PM

Just the man I wanted to hear from. ...
Thanks everyone for the help. I am still planning on a front three link from 4wu, but until i get there I might as well fix the rear because I think if its wobbly now it might be worse with the three link. Either way it needs improved. Im going to take the hard top off and put the soft top on in a week or so, add one more leaf to my rear packs because they are too soft anyways, and then Im going to weld on my new lower shock mounts. They are from ruffstuff and go on the back side of the axle. With the mounts lower I can run the shocks nearly straight up and down again. From there I will most likely try the ranchos due to the good reviews and low cost. Then if those don't cut it I'll get some radflos valved by someone who knows what they are doing. I can play with it form there. I'll update on my thread and here.

I wouldnt waste money on the ranchos...i would go with the radflo resi's right off the bat. the great thing about these shocks is you will never have to buy a new set...they are completely rebuild-able. I feel like you would be wasting money on the ranchos.
but thats just me..

Dirt Mover · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 14, 2015, 06:31:41 AM »

Getting the shocks near vertical is one of the best improvements I've made for stability, but it's tougher than it looks to do this with the exhaust on one side and the proportion valve on the other to find the right spots. It took a lot of string lines and measuring. We'll worth the time and it doesn't cost money. Then you have to find a shock length that works. Too long won't stuff and too short won't droop

Bananaclip · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 19, 2015, 04:48:15 AM »

Looks like I will be ordering some rancho's when I get my 63 swap in. I'm 100% mounting outside the frame (vertical) the /\ won't do much on the street. Thanks for the Intel guys!!!!

MRHilux87 [OP]

MRHilux87 [OP]

MRHilux87 [OP]

MRHilux87 [OP]

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