Topic: Moab Trip September 4th - 12th 2015

[SqWADoosh]

Well I have taken on the adventure of organizing a Moab trip this year. It will be my first time there as well as the first time taking my club on a trip outside of our state. The plan is to leave Seattle on September 4th and stay until September 12th. This will allow us to skip the major traffic (in theory) of all the 4x4 events held in March, April, May, and June. My understanding is that the weather in September is ideal as well (Average high in the 80s and average low in the high 50s). It will be an opportunity for me to hopefully meet some friends I've made on here as well as the other forums I frequent as well. We will be camping the entire trip. I am leaning towards the Sand Flats however as with everything I am open to advice. I hope to see you guys out there and look forward to your input! 

[BigBluePile]

Sounds like an adventure!

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Sounds like an adventure!

You in?

[BigBluePile]

There's no way I can plan that far out :/

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

There's no way I can plan that far out :/

  Well because we are camping you could join at the last minute if you end up being able to make it.

[liveoak]

I

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

I've been going to Moab once a year for the past 10 and all I can say is unless it's mid summer or the dead of winter you will be hard pressed to find even 1 available camp spot much less multiples anywhere near each other in all the state and park campgrounds(first come first serve, no reservations). The last thing you want to do in such an awesome place is scramble around trying to find a place for a group to camp. I would recommend Area BFE http://www.areabfe.com/ or have your group make reservations at a place like Slick Rock Campground http://www.slickrockcampground.com/ or KOA http://www.moabkoa.com/ (great showers).
  Moab is (for most) the kind of place where you have a base camp to come back to every night. It is so nice to have a shower and hit the town after a day of wheelin. You will find yourself going through town a lot so don't think of it as a primitive type environment. There are lots of places to eat and a grocery store or 2 with anything you could want.

Hmmm well that is concerning that you say we will not be able to find a place to setup without reservations. Neither the KOA or slickrock have very good reviews. I've heard good things about Area BFE however those showers you talk about are rather appealing and BFE does not have that. Thanks for the advice LO. When are you going to Moab this year?

[liveoak]

I

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Well we decided that with us going on Labor Day weekend it was too much of a gamble hoping we could find a spot to camp after driving 16 hours. We decided to rent a condo for the week. There were some other factors that led to this decision as well including: showers, kitchen, shitters, a garage to store doors and tops in, as well as a garage to work on anything that breaks.

Now that we've squared away our arrangements for where we are staying I would love to start a conversation about our trail itinerary. Having never been to Moab before and leading a group I realize that I am biting off quite a bit here. However I have been leading my club on runs for about a year now and have learned a lot as a wheeler and a leader. That being said I know that there is a lot more to learn. I have no doubt that Moab is going to be exponentially more difficult to organize and lead than anything I've done so far.

My first question to those of you that have been before is what is the number one mistake first timers at Moab make? Not just driving mistakes but also in planning? Also what is your number one piece of advice?

I also would love to hear some trail recommendations as well as how long they took you to run. I am utilizing all the resources I can including books, forums, youtube, and more. The fact is that this is the place where I can have a conversation with those that have been there and done it so I hold your advice above all the others.

My rough draft itinerary looks like this:

September 4th: Leave WA in the AM. Drive 8 hours and stop in ID to camp for the night.
5th: Leave ID in the AM. Drive the final 8 hours and arrive in Moab. Get ourselves settled in and prepared for the week of wheeling ahead. This will include a meeting with all participants over dinner in which I will outline our plan as well as safety, trail etiquette, etc.
6th: Poison Spider, Golden Spike & Gold Bar Rim
7th: Hells Revenge
8th: Iron Mesa
9th: Kane Creek Canyon
10th: Porcupine Rim
11th: Steel Bender

I realize that we will be able to fit in more than just the trails listed per day I just wanted to start with a trail on every day and then I can plug and play based on the advice I receive/information I come across. I would love to hear what trails mesh well and are suited to do in a row (similar to how poison spider, Golden Spike, & Gold Bar Rim all run together).

Thanks in advance guys! 

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Anyone?

[blackdiamond]

We always stay at the KOA when it is a boys only trip and hotels or condo when other family go. The KOA kabins are great!

I can give you more advice on trails later, but for a quick rundown I would make different choices than what I see on your list. It all depends on the group and the difficulty of wheeling you are looking for.

Hell's Revenge is the ultimate trail for having fun. It is mostly slick rock or sand and you can go around pretty much every obstacle making it fun for everyone. A great trail for early in your trip, but not day 1 as you want to get comfortable with the slick rock and angles first to maximize your fun.

Poison Spider Mesa / Golden Spike / Gold Bar Rim is a must do trail, but it is long and remote so I would suggest taking the most direct route through and bypassing most of Poison Spider Mesa. Plan to keep moving and avoid stopping all the time to avoid exiting in the dark which isn't the best plan on a first trip. Start early and keep moving. Also not a great day 1 trail because it is too remote for a shakedown trail.

Moab Rim is a must do trail as well. It is well covered in magazines and can be done in almost stock rigs with a little finesse behind the wheel. I did it in my 85 on 32's and a mild lift, otherwise stock. There are some lines to challenge more built rigs, but a lot of the difficulty is result of the angles and edge that is really only close to the actual trail on one corner. I often just go to the rim and back down to save time and sometimes go to the bottom of the sand hill but wasn't impressed with the rest of the trail for views or wheeling.

Cliff Hanger is a fun trail that usually can be done as a lead up to the Moab Rim. Not much slick rock but there are a few fun challenges and the shelf road that is the main attraction is fun but not nearly as daring as advertised. I grew up on the shelf roads in Colorado so am pretty much immune to edges. The drop in is a fun series of ledges that are a real challenge for stock rigs coming out.

Steel Bender isn't my favorite trail, but that is partly due to a bad first experience. We had the old Charles Wells book (get the new one) and we're not planning for the length of the extended trail. It is mostly a rocky trail that should be somewhat familiar feeling for WA wheelers. Not much slick rock.

Kane Creek isn't a trail that I have done a lot, but it definately has some fun parts. The level of the water in the creeks can make it more interesting.  It isn't one of the more difficult trails but has a few challenges.

Pritchett Canyon is the wildest trail I have done. I don't think it will be on te list for me this year. There are some winch anchors but my goal isn't to see how strong my winch is. Damage and broken parts is a likely scenario on this trail so I don't always choose to test my luck. On a week long trip this is a Thursday trip to give me maximum prep before with a recovery day after. If time permits running Behing the Rocks backwards is the ultimate combo for difficulty. I wouldn't recommend this trail unless you have someone along that has previous experience. Just my two cents.  This is a remote trail where the route home is very long.

Behind the Rocks is a long and remote trail but most of the really difficult spots can be avoided. White Knuckle Hill is the only one that doesn't have a co located bypass. I have climbed it two or three times but have no interest is dropping down it which is the normal safari direction. You should run this trail (maybe plan to avoid white knuckle). I think you would enjoy it and it would give you a view of a different area than the other trails.

Fins n Things is a fairly easy trail that could be a great introduction to slick rock. I think the first half was worth doing again but the back half wasn't much for excitement. This could be a warmup for hells revenge.

Elephant Hill was a trail that I grew up running multiple times a year as a kid. We did Easter in Canyonlands. It is about 80 miles from Moab so I generally only go back with new rigs (mine) or when family are along. If you can handle the long day it is a beautiful trip, has a great hike at the far end, and will let you see Canyonlands. The wheeling isn't real difficult because the park does maintenance but it is still a great trip.

I don't think I have run the other trails on your list. I stay on the ones rated most difficult most of the time.

[blackdiamond]

In your shoes if I had six days in Moab here is what I would consider doing:

1. Fins N Things (only half) then Hells Revenge
2. Golden Spike (including part of Poison Spider Mesa and all of Gold Bar Rim) - very long day
3. Moab Rim (to the rim) and Cliff Hanger
4. Behind the Rocks
5. Elephant Hill or Poison Spider Mesa or Steel Bender (my order of preference) - Elephant Hill is a very long day
6. Moab Rim and sunset hike to Delicate Arch

These trails would show you most of the photographed places and give you a taste of most of the areas around Moab plus two National Parks with Canyonlands and Arches.

[blackdiamond]

When it comes to technical tips, 1st gear in 4.70:1 low range is my go to gear for climbing the walls in Moab. It seems to be just the right amount of momentum while still crawling. CrankyCrawler struggled for a while with his dual cases until he moved up to a higher gear. 1st and 2nd is just a little low for several of the obstacles, 3rd is a good gear as it is similar to 1st in 4.70:1 low range. I started my low gears with a single 4.70 t-case so learned how sweet 1st gear was by default. When I went duals I quickly found out that slower isn't always better and reverted back to my roots.

I suspect that 1st with duals 2.28/2.28 should be pretty good but it is about 10% lower.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Great advice all around Black. I appreciate it.   

[blackdiamond]

You are welcome.  I missued a trail...

Metal Masher used to be a favorite of mine because I loved the challenge of Widow Maker Hill. The last time I was there it was still doable in a long wheelbase truck that was bobbed (Cranky Crawler has an 84 long bed and my 85 extended cab), but no chance in my 4Runner because the rear bumper starts picking up the rear tires long before they get to the wall. It is a very tall and steep wall. Not much point in going for me now. The only other really fun spot is Rock Chucker Hill that is a side obstacle and not worth spending an entire day on a trail for.  It is worth seeing but not high on my overall list.

[CrankyCrawler]

SqWADoosh I would agree 100% with Blackdiamond on his comments. We have been going down to Moab for years together since we were little. Have a great time!

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Anyone ever run Strike before? Its beginning to make its way on my short list.

[CrankyCrawler]

Yes. Quite a few times. It is a great trail with a lot of fun sections. I have always run it in conjunction with Gold Bar Rim. Expect a long day if you connect with Gold Bar. 

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

Yes. Quite a few times. It is a great trail with a lot of fun sections. I have always run it in conjunction with Gold Bar Rim. Expect a long day if you connect with Gold Bar.

Sorry man I meant to put "Strike" instead of "Spike". As in Strike Ravine in BFE. Spike is already on the for sure list

[CrankyCrawler]

I have not. I have done Greenday and Minor Threat in Area BFE and that is it.

[blackdiamond]

If you're talking about Strike Ravine, it's not one that I've ever done and didn't realize that it was part of the AreaBFE.

http://www.areabfe.com/trails/

http://www.rr4w.com/trail-details.cfm?trailid=47

It is also listed on Red Rock 4Wheelers and I think also in Charles Wells book.

You partly need to determine your overall goal for your trip before you can figure out which trails you want to run.  If your goal is to experience Moab (i.e. slickrock, scenery, national parks, etc.) then you will end up running different trails than if your goal is just the wheeling.

I have been aware of Strike Ravine for a long time and probably have not run it because it's difficulty rating wasn't high enough to push another of my favorites off the list.  It's a real struggle for me to skip some trips and risk not enjoying the new trail as much.  As you'll find out, a trip from Washington is a real investment.

The trips that I typically choose from are the following (not a particular order):
(1) Hell's Revenge (Every time)
(2) Moab Rim (Every time)
(3) Cliff Hanger
(4) Poison Spider Mesa / Golden Spike / Gold Bar Rim (by default)
(5) Metal Masher (now that I can't climb Widow Maker this one is less exciting for me but was a favorite for a long time)
(6) Pritchett Canyon (this is the one that always scares me)
(7) Behind the Rocks
(8) Elephant Hill (been doing this one my entire life)

The other trips that I have done at least once are the following:
(9) Kane Creek (Was fun but not a core trip for me)
(10) Steel Bender (Had fun parts but I most remember it being long and rough)
(11) Rusty Nail (Was a fun day but also not a core trip)

With 8 favorites it's really hard to convince myself to run a different trail when at most I can only choose five.

I have walked Helldorado and parts of a couple others in AreaBFE, but have never been that excited in running trails are there simply to be trails (i.e. ORV).

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

If you're talking about Strike Ravine, it's not one that I've ever done and didn't realize that it was part of the AreaBFE.

http://www.areabfe.com/trails/

http://www.rr4w.com/trail-details.cfm?trailid=47

It is also listed on Red Rock 4Wheelers and I think also in Charles Wells book.

You partly need to determine your overall goal for your trip before you can figure out which trails you want to run.  If your goal is to experience Moab (i.e. slickrock, scenery, national parks, etc.) then you will end up running different trails than if your goal is just the wheeling.

I have been aware of Strike Ravine for a long time and probably have not run it because it's difficulty rating wasn't high enough to push another of my favorites off the list.  It's a real struggle for me to skip some trips and risk not enjoying the new trail as much.  As you'll find out, a trip from Washington is a real investment.

The trips that I typically choose from are the following (not a particular order):
(1) Hell's Revenge (Every time)
(2) Moab Rim (Every time)
(3) Cliff Hanger
(4) Poison Spider Mesa / Golden Spike / Gold Bar Rim (by default)
(5) Metal Masher (now that I can't climb Widow Maker this one is less exciting for me but was a favorite for a long time)
(6) Pritchett Canyon (this is the one that always scares me)
(7) Behind the Rocks
(8) Elephant Hill (been doing this one my entire life)

The other trips that I have done at least once are the following:
(9) Kane Creek (Was fun but not a core trip for me)
(10) Steel Bender (Had fun parts but I most remember it being long and rough)
(11) Rusty Nail (Was a fun day but also not a core trip)

With 8 favorites it's really hard to convince myself to run a different trail when at most I can only choose five.

I have walked Helldorado and parts of a couple others in AreaBFE, but have never been that excited in running trails are there simply to be trails (i.e. ORV).

I have to take into account the rigs that are going to be in my party. They are not all going to be capable of the toughest trails in Moab (hell mine isn't as it sits right now, but I'm working on that). With that in mind I have the following SO FAR.

1st day - Hells Revenge & Fins and things
2nd day - Poison Spider, Gold Bar Rim, & Golden Spike
3rd day - Elephant Hill
4th day - Undecided
5th day - Non Wheeling day (probably a trip to arches)
6th day - Undecided

I am going to host a get together/meeting with everyone that is going on the trip in April. We will be watching videos of trails, looking over the maps, looking over Charles Wells book, etc., and deciding on a itinerary then. I plan on doing the same in August about a month before we leave. That way in August we can assess where all the rigs are at and make a final decision on what to run based on where everyone's rigs sit on the built scale.

I look forward to the most up to date information on the state of the trails from your trip BD. That will help immensely as well I'm sure.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

My biggest concern right now is that we don't have a single person in the party who has been to Moab before. This is dangerous in that we don't have anything to go off of as far as lines except reading the ground, literature, & Youtube videos. 

[blackdiamond]

My biggest concern right now is that we don't have a single person in the party who has been to Moab before. This is dangerous in that we don't have anything to go off of as far as lines except reading the ground, literature, & Youtube videos. 

There is certainly some added risk by not having anyone with trail experience, but there are really only a few places, in my opinion, where that could get you into real trouble.  Here are some examples:

Pritchett Canyon - This was a nasty trail 4 to 6 years ago and it seems to get worse every time.  Having someone along with previous experience is a must.  I have no plans to go near it on my trip.  It's been too long to be confident enough and I suspect I'd end up winching more than I care to do.

Behind the Rocks - White Knuckle Hill, High Dive, and Upchuck (sort of) are all spots where things can get tricky, but they all have bypasses.  White Knuckle is the only one that doesn't have a direct/close bypass.  If you look in the Charles Wells book I would suggest you just bypass the section between White Knuckle and the top of Pritchett Canyon.  There are a lot of sandy/easy exit roads and almost all of the most difficult stuff can be bypassed.

Moab Rim - This is an interesting, but the two most difficult spots are within a short walk of the start.  The Devil's Crack requires some caution, especially coming back down, and the Z-turn can be pretty difficult depending on the line you choose.  I drove my 85 truck up this trail with a mild lift and 32 inch tires.  It was a real challenge and the terrain doesn't seem to change much from year to year.  I would suggest this be considered for the list and the less built rigs and/or less experienced drivers will find out right away if they want to drive or ride.  The drive to the rim give you a perfect overlook for the town of Moab.

I can't really think of any other trails where the obsticles are such that having previous experience is pretty important.  There are a lot of optional places along various trails where it can make a difference, but it won't keep you from having a great day.  Route finding may be a different story depending on how well they are marked in September.  Going in March they are all freshly marked in prep for the Safari.  Here are some other trails to consider:

Metal Masher - You might find this trail to be extremely fun.  The major obstacles can be bypassed and this is another than I ran in my 85 truck.  Mirror Gulch may be the most difficult must do part of the trail.  Widow Maker is crazy anymore and really only possible for buggies and long wheelbase rigs (i.e. extended cab or long bed Toyota that are bobbed are king).

I would caution you about trying to take on all of the Golden Spike trail.  It's rough enough to challenge stockish trucks making for slow going.  It is a very long trail and without knowing the trail getting caught after dark might be more stress than it's worth.  We've had a broken hub requiring a 2wd exit after dark and also a broken c-clip axle requiring a truck to be left overnight in the past.  You might consider just doing Poison Spider Mesa on one day and just run the Spike trail out to Skyline Drive.  You could do the Gold Bar Rim trail from the other end and do the Golden Spike to the crack to get to see some of the biggies on that end.  We are planning to scout out a new route off of the Spike called Where Eagles Dare and are considering not doing the full Spike due to the length of the day required, but are still trying to get details.

[blackdiamond]

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=45151.msg1098226#msg1098226

Check this one out for a classic ledge adventure.  My advice is to make sure you know what you're dropping off of.  If you don't have a passenger that can spot for you on the passenger side you may get a surprise.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=45151.msg1098226#msg1098226

Check this one out for a classic ledge adventure.  My advice is to make sure you know what you're dropping off of.  If you don't have a passenger that can spot for you on the passenger side you may get a surprise.

Man that guy has one good looking truck. We do use spotters and take time to walk the trail ahead of us if no one has run it before. That was one close call for that guy. I don't know if I'd be stopping to take pictures in that kind of angle 

[blackdiamond]

I thought I'd get some of my initial thoughts out on last weeks trip as it relates to your upcoming trip while it's still fresh in my mind.

Day 1: Fins & Things (portions) & Moab Rim (just to the rim and  back):

Since we were running alone on Sunday morning my dad and I headed to Fins & Things.  We had only done it once previously and I had remembered that there was a portion of it that I really enjoyed and a portion that I didn't care for.  We did the first section from the start of the trail to the first crossing of the main road.  Overall, I enjoyed the trail and found several places that I think your group would have fun playing on.  Most due to time restrictions we took the main road to the cutoff that goes by the tower that Charles Wells describes and ran the last section as well.  This section had a lot of slick rock similar to what you find on Hell's Revenge, it was just easier stuff.  Very enjoyable.  Kenny's Climb was really easy, but looks interesting if you're not used to the grip that the slick rock provides.  With a "Moab newbie" group of six trucks I think you'd have a great day running this trail.

After CrankyCrawler arrived we did a late afternoon run up the Moab Rim.  This trail doesn't seem to change much and it one of my favorites.  It is about 5 minutes from town and the most fun parts of the trail are within the first 30 minutes.  You'll find out pretty quickly how comfortable your group is with the angles and edges.  I'd highly recommend that you run this trail with the understanding that you have some other Moab experience first and that you might have one or two that may choose to just ride along.  I did this trail with 32 inch tires and open differentials about ten years ago and think I could do it again, but the Z-turn always makes me work for it no matter what I'm driving.  I think one locker would be my recommendation and either stock duals or a single 4.70:1 gears in the transfer case.  1st gear in 4.70:1 low range is pretty much the perfect gear for Moab.

Day 2: Sevenmile Rim & Pickle

This was my first time running Sevenmile Rim and it was great.  There were a few places to play along the way but we saw a fairly stock looking Grand working through the trail.  It had a great scenery and almost every type of terrain that is available.  Tippy Rock will give you some experience with odd angles and Wipeout Hill is a side show for those that want to give it a try.  We all dropped down and climbed back up.  CrankyCrawler took the rougher route coming back up and had no issues.  I would highly recommend this trip early in your adventures.  A great place to start along with Fins & Things.

We walked the entire Pickle before tackling the first climb.  It really wasn't a big deal, but the last climb made everyone work a bit (it has a bypass).  You might use it as a filler on a day where you have some extra time for the rigs that have two lockers and gears.  It's short enough that leaving the other trucks at one end or the other wouldn't be an issue.

Day 3: Poison Spider & Where Eagles Dare

Poison Spider is another great trail for everyone in your group.  There are places to play but go-arounds for almost everything.  Wheel to your level of comfort.

Where Eagles Dare was a new one for us and takes off to the south just past Skyline Drive on the Golden Spike.  We did the first loop on the trail as it has three entry/exit points.  We didn't get a chance to take a closer look at Phobia Hill that looks crazy from a distance.  I wouldn't recommend this trip unless you are feeling really confident on the rocks as the entry climbs make us think twice before we did it.  It's doable, but you want gears and lockers to make sure you're set, especially if you were to get over to Phobia Hill.  There is an overlook for Corona Arch that was pretty neat as well.

Day 4: Rusty Nail return by Golden Spike and Gold Bar Rim

This trail is rough and doesn't have any winch anchors.  Anyone with two lockers and gear should be able to do it fairly easily.  The first hard spot has an easy and a hard way (we did the hard way) and the next spot was easier than last time and just required a little bump.  I think this trail (and return trip) would push rigs without two lockers and possibly require some straps/winches.  There is one climb on the way out on the Gold Bar Rim trail that took us a while to figure out.  It's getting worse.  The 4Runners couldn't climb the obvious smooth portion of the rock and had to go up over some big rocks at the bottom of it. It worked out well, but it would be an interesting event to pull someone up because there isn't much room at the top.

Day 5: Behind the Rocks

The first big hill on this trail was a real challenge and I think two lockers is required to minimize the risk of too much entertainment, but pulling a winch would be easy.  There is a lot of challenging spots on the trail but most have bypasses.  I think one locker and gears would make it mostly doable and would certainly give your group a workout.  Just don't go down High Dive (I have climbed it and it got interesting) and just look at White Knuckle before backtracking or taking a exit road.  This one is pretty rough and would be a real challenge, I think.    The terrain is very different from most of the other trails so it's a great area to see and experience.

[blackdiamond]

Based on the list of trails you guys plan to do on your trip here's the order that I would suggest:

Day 1 - Fins & Things, a reasonable day after your long trip from WA.
Day 2 - Hell's Revenge, lot's of fun to be had here.
Day 3 - Golden Spike, A long day that you'll want to leave early and plan to get back late.  You'll want to avoid playing on everything that you come across as you'll quickly lose time throughout the day.  Even 5 minutes per rig adds up to 20 minutes with 5 rigs
Day 4 - Moab Rim, a fairly short trail even if you do the loop giving you a break between long days.
Day 5 - Elephant Hill, a long mostly easy day to minimize your risk of broken parts late in the week.  It would be a great last day but it's too long to then hit the highway the next day.
Day 6 - Seven Mile Rim, a really run and scenic trip that would also minimize your risk of broken parts on the final day.

If you want to do Kane Creek, that's more difficult that Seven Mile Rim according to CrankyCrawler, then I'd probably shuffle things like the following because Kane Creek is both more difficult and also longer:

Day 1 - Fins & Things
Day 2 - Kane Creek
Day 3 - Golden Spike
Day 4 - Hell's Revenge
Day 5 - Elephant Hill
Day 6 - Moab Rim

Hopefully CrankyCrawler can give you more information on Kane Creek as he prefers it to Seven Mile Rim from a purely wheeling perspective.

Seven Mile Rim is much more scenic, has a lot of different terrain ranging from slick rock to sand, and I found it to be a generally fun trail.  View from the rim are almost always better than views from a canyon!  I also feel that Seven Mile Rim is more of a Moab trail while Kane Creek had a less unique feel to it for me.

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

This the itinerary as it stands now:

September 4th: Leave WA and travel 8 hours to Boise to camp for the night.
September 5th: Leave Boise and  travel 8 hours to Moab and setup camp for the week.
September 6th: Finns & Things followed by Hells Revenge
September 7th: Moab Rim + Unknown other trail depending on when we finish Moab Rim (What is close to it that you recommend?)
September 8th: The Big 3 Poison Spider Mesa + Golden Spike + Gold Bar Rim
September 9th: Down day from wheeling. A trip to either Canyonlands or Arches for a day of taking in the scenery. I'm open to suggestions on this including light trails we can take to great viewpoints.
September 10th: Elephant Hill
September 11th: Kane Creek Canyon (now second guessing this because of you BD!)
September 12th: Pack up camp and head home traveling another 8 hours to Boise to camp for the night
September 13th: Leave Boise and do the final stint of pavement to WA

[SqWADoosh [OP]]

I'm also interested in which permits/day passes we will need based on this itinerary?