Author Topic: transmission strength question  (Read 10612 times)

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toy4rox84

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transmission strength question
« on: Jul 20, 2013, 11:12:42 AM »
hello all!
have a 4.3 (non vortec) going into my 84 yota. my question is will the g54 in my truck handle the horsepower and torque (160 hp, 210 ft lb). or would I be better off with a w56? also contemplating a 700r4 but that's more money then I'd like to spend...
85 4Runner-5.29s, Duals, Detroit/Spool, longs up front TG Chromos in back,37 iroks

RCKSQRL

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #1 on: Jul 20, 2013, 01:09:25 PM »
A lot depends on your driving style and what kind if driving you do.


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toy4rox84 [OP]

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #2 on: Jul 20, 2013, 01:17:46 PM »
heavy right foot and all rock crawling
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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #3 on: Jul 20, 2013, 02:29:19 PM »
Go R series transmission then.

toy4rox84 [OP]

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #4 on: Jul 20, 2013, 02:42:48 PM »
I have thought about that but for the price of an r series tranny and converting my cases to 23 spline I mine as well spend the extra money and go 700r4/atlas. I was thinkin the w56 may hold up better then my g series but I don't like the idea of being dead in the water on a trail if I blow a tranny


85 4Runner-5.29s, Duals, Detroit/Spool, longs up front TG Chromos in back,37 iroks

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #5 on: Jul 20, 2013, 07:37:02 PM »
The W-series is about 20% stronger than the G-series: Larger and wider bearings, larger and wider gears. In comparison, the R-series is at least twice as strong as a W-series, probably more.

The best argument for the W-transmission would have to be a dealer-equipped Supercharged 2.7-liter 4-cylinder 3RZ-FE in a 3,500-lb 4Runner, which TRD estimates to produce 238 ft-lbs torque / 210 horsepower. Beings how the S/C upgrade did not void the factory drivetrain warranty, we must assume Toyota feels confident to push 240-ish TQ through a W-transmission (specifically a W59, which, practically speaking, is the same strength as a W56) (and I say 4Runner because that is heavier than a Tacoma but still carried the same drivetrain warranty).

Another vote of confidence would be the W58 used behind the inline 3-liter 6-cylinder 7M-GE engine in the 3,500 pound Mk3 Supra, but that's only upwards to 190-ish ft-lbs torque and the 7M seriously lacks in bottom end power compared to the 3RZ-FE (it's a passenger car engine after all) (remember static loading is more abusive than dynamic loading, meaning more torque with fewer RPMs will result in more broken parts).

Try it out and see how it does. If it was me I'd go R-series without hesitation. You mention a 23-spline transfer case. Remember you can run a 23-spline transfer case even with a 21-spline transmission by using a 23-spline dual case coupler to convert the Crawl Box output to accept a 23-spline t/case. You'd definitely want to at least do this as all 6-cylinder drive trains will eventually break a 21-spline dual case'd transfer case, especially if it is not our Marlin Crawler Total-Spline input (see here and here). While the transmission only receives your estimated 210 ft-lbs of torque, your dual case'd transfer case will receive 479 ft-lbs of torque. Quite the difference, and at a slower shaft speed to boot!

Good luck! :beerchug:
BigMike
« Last Edit: Jul 20, 2013, 08:06:09 PM by BigMike »
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toy4rox84 [OP]

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #6 on: Jul 20, 2013, 08:59:09 PM »
great info big mike! I know without a doubt I would have to to 23 spline since I've seen buddies break 21 spline stuff with their 22re. as far and dollars and cents go I'm starting to think i may have a stronger setup with a 700r4 and atlas. easier to drink beer in an automatic :grin:
85 4Runner-5.29s, Duals, Detroit/Spool, longs up front TG Chromos in back,37 iroks

emsvitil

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #7 on: Jul 21, 2013, 12:25:12 AM »
The W-series is about 20% stronger than the G-series: Larger and wider bearings, larger and wider gears. In comparison, the R-series is at least twice as strong as a W-series, probably more.

The best argument for the W-transmission would have to be a dealer-equipped Supercharged 2.7-liter 4-cylinder 3RZ-FE in a 3,500-lb 4Runner, which TRD estimates to produce 238 ft-lbs torque / 210 horsepower. Beings how the S/C upgrade did not void the factory drivetrain warranty, we must assume Toyota feels confident to push 240-ish TQ through a W-transmission (specifically a W59, which, practically speaking, is the same strength as a W56) (and I say 4Runner because that is heavier than a Tacoma but still carried the same drivetrain warranty).



How much stronger is a W56 with your HD bearings?
Ed
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BigMike

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #8 on: Jul 21, 2013, 10:30:13 AM »
I'll check the ratings on the bearings tomorrow :thumbs: Upgrading the bearings is just one of many things we do to HD builds :thumbs:

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #9 on: Jul 22, 2013, 06:35:56 PM »
Sorry I was too busy today to get to this. I'll see about checking on it tomorrow-
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emsvitil

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #10 on: Jul 24, 2013, 01:32:30 AM »
Sorry I was too busy today to get to this. I'll see about checking on it tomorrow-

or the next day.........
 
 :hammerhead:

 
 
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BigMike

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #11 on: Jul 24, 2013, 03:07:24 PM »
How much stronger is a W56 with your HD bearings?
The input and mainshaft bearings are the same bearing and have 4,150 ft-lb static and 8,500 ft-lb dynamic load ratings. We replace both of these with two of our same Heavy Duty bearings featuring 6,550 ft-lb static and 11,600 ft-lb dynamic load ratings, or 57.8% stronger static and 36.5% stronger dynamic ratings.

We also upgrade the counter shaft center bearing to a Heavy Duty unit: Stock is 4,271 ft-lb static / 5,553 ft-lb dynamic, compared to our HD part which is 4,991 ft-lb static / 7,491 ft-lb dynamic, or 14.4% higher static and 22.8% higher dynamic ratings. (note: these numbers are converted to ft-lbs from a manufacture rating listed in Newtons).

Therefore, speaking only about the Heavy Duty bearings we use, the overall average increase in loading is 43% higher static and 32% higher dynamic.

All of the original bearings are Nachi, and we replace the counter shaft with a stronger version Nachi, and the two input/mainshaft bearings are our own custom bearings that we've spec'd and have made exclusively for us.

Regards,
BigMike
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3toys

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #12 on: Jul 24, 2013, 11:28:27 PM »
Not to thread-jack, but when is the HD W56 ever gonna be on-hand?  I need to order one but waiting 6-8wks is gonna be very difficult.  I use my truck daily, and need a one day replacement option....  If I order now, will I certainly have one in 6-8wks?

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #13 on: Jul 25, 2013, 07:23:38 AM »
As of right now we are looking at a solid 6-8 weeks.
-Zack- aka uncle Zack!                GOT MARLIN?

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3toys

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #14 on: Jul 25, 2013, 05:42:09 PM »
Cool beans.  Thanks for the reply. 

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #15 on: Nov 10, 2013, 01:52:41 PM »
Think a R151F could hold up to a 300 ft lb turbo diesel?

BigMike

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Re: transmission strength question
« Reply #16 on: Nov 11, 2013, 11:26:16 AM »
Think a R151F could hold up to a 300 ft lb turbo diesel?
Yes. Toyota's factory R150F warranty includes the use of a 319 ft-lbs Supercharged 3.4-liter petrol engine (all R15X-varients are very similar in strength). Additionally, R-series transmissions have proved themselves to withstand over 400 ft-lbs of torque in turbocharged sports cars (granted this isn't the "brute torque" that a diesel develops, but it is good evidence of the R-transmission's strength).

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