Author Topic: Who builds a the best 22RE? (Read 40890 times)

THEMAN · « **on:** Dec 18, 2012, 10:02:44 PM »

So I blew a head gasket after 275k miles in my 87 4runner. Figured I install a new gasket to get me by until I build a new motor. Well, the head is cracked and now I'm thinking about just doing the new motor now. My question is who builds the best 22RE motor locally or semi locally to Fresno CA. I've had Engine masters do a 327 Chevy short block for my Malibu and they did a great job but that is a Chevy. Not sure how they are with 22RE's. I hear that Clovis machine is pretty good and that a guy named Glenn out on whitesbridge also builds engines just not sure where to go. I have looked on line at LCE and 22RE performance.com has a nice site but kind of spendy. So where have you guys gone to have your engines either rebuilt or simply machined? I would prefer a long block so I can just drop it in but I can put together a short block if necessary. Any info and opinions appreciated. I should add that I would like to keep it pretty much stock as "beefed" up 22RE's don't do too well in the long run. If I want more power I would rather do a 3rz swap but not sure that I want to undertake that job. Maybe someone locally does that I would go that route. So if you know about a local place to do that swap chime in too. Thanks.

Sparkplug · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 18, 2012, 10:13:09 PM »

put a new head on it, keep that bottom end stock as long as you can, trust me

Cheesemaker · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 18, 2012, 10:26:42 PM »

Do, whatever makes you feel comfortable. You can do what Spark said, depending on what your compression numbers were before the crack, or you can call the shop you've done experience with. Because, any engine builder can build a 22RE. From many members on this site, a 22RE is stupidly simple to build, but I've never felt comfortable enough to do it myself. I'd rather have a complete motor built. I have many friend who just do a top end, only to have to tear into the lower end later due to rod knock or lower end issues.

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 20, 2012, 01:18:54 PM »

Staying stock and original is cool and they do last a long time on that original bottom end but you do have alot of miles on that thing. I once swaped in a good stock bottom end with the "don't mess with the stock bottom end" theorey but I spun out a rod bearing within about 15K miles. The next time I got ahold of a good original bottom end I simply freshened it up with new stock sized rod and main bearings and rings from Toyota. This worked alot better and that truck ios still driving around years later. All the journals and bores were within spec and it didn't cost much at all.

I know it is intimidating at first but I really think it's worth your while to learn to rebuild yourself. It will cost less and they are stupid easy to do...

Zs Confederate Toy · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 20, 2012, 09:49:46 PM »

They aren't hard at all to build. I have done two so far. As long as you have confidence in your mechanicing skills. When I built mine I went .30 over bore, decked the head 15 thous, stock cam, stock valves, Downey header. The recommedation for the head milling is no more than 10 thous for valve clearances but I haven't had a problem as of yet. I have 12k miles on it already. Runs great and has lots of power.

46&2 · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 21, 2012, 01:42:06 AM »

My 85 Runner has a DOA (http://www.doaracingengines.com/) built 22RE. It had about 20K on it when I bought it back in 2005. Engine has ran strong, problem free, and is peppy as hell. Been very dependable. I've heard a lot of complaints in the last four or five years about LCE, but I have zero issues with my DOA 22RE. I would go with them again if I wanted a custom built Toyota engine.

THEMAN · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 21, 2012, 02:44:25 AM »

Quote from: 46&2 on Dec 21, 2012, 01:42:06 AM

My 85 Runner has a DOA (http://www.doaracingengines.com/) built 22RE. It had about 20K on it when I bought it back in 2005. Engine has ran strong, problem free, and is peppy as hell. Been very dependable. I've heard a lot of complaints in the last four or five years about LCE, but I have zero issues with my DOA 22RE. I would go with them again if I wanted a custom built Toyota engine.

I too have heard a lot of complaints about LCE as well as some from DOA. As others have stated that it is stupid easy. I am more leaning to doing it myself as I am pretty mechanically inclined. After all I did install 3 short block chevy's in my 64 malibu but then again there is no smog crap and only 1 vacuum advance hose as compared to the many vacuum hoses of the 22RE which really isn't that many compared to my 82 with a 22r holy

does that one have a lot of hoses. I just don't have the time to do it myself right now. I'm thinking that I'm going to replace the head and look for another 22re to slowly rebuild as I have time then when its complete I can put it in. Hopefully the new head will give me enough time which I think it might. I went over to the shop yesterday and took a look at the cylinder walls on my engine since the head was off and they look pretty nice. No noticeable lip or anything, they look good, but we'll see.

And I do have a downey header for it and love it! I actually did notice a little more pep in its step and I find that I am able to leave it in 5th gear quite a bit more than before.

46&2 · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 21, 2012, 10:41:44 PM »

Quote from: THEMAN on Dec 21, 2012, 02:44:25 AM

I too have heard a lot of complaints about LCE as well as some from DOA. As others have stated that it is stupid easy. I am more leaning to doing it myself as I am pretty mechanically inclined. After all I did install 3 short block chevy's in my 64 malibu but then again there is no smog crap and only 1 vacuum advance hose as compared to the many vacuum hoses of the 22RE which really isn't that many compared to my 82 with a 22r holy does that one have a lot of hoses. I just don't have the time to do it myself right now. I'm thinking that I'm going to replace the head and look for another 22re to slowly rebuild as I have time then when its complete I can put it in. Hopefully the new head will give me enough time which I think it might. I went over to the shop yesterday and took a look at the cylinder walls on my engine since the head was off and they look pretty nice. No noticeable lip or anything, they look good, but we'll see.

And I do have a downey header for it and love it! I actually did notice a little more pep in its step and I find that I am able to leave it in 5th gear quite a bit more than before.

I have a Downey header as well and likewise love it.

Dave C · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 22, 2012, 11:25:47 AM »

There is a guy in Chico California who builds the best 22re . I had mine built about 2k miles ago and has been awsome . Look him up at his website 22re performance.com . Talk to Jim Putney . He can build you anything from a relaiable stocker to a pro racer . I know these engines are simple to put together ,but correct machining process ,torque and matched quality do make a difference on reliability .

yotarunner85 · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 23, 2012, 10:03:55 AM »

With 275,000 miles I would NOT just put a new head on to keep it stock. I bought my 4Runner with a blown head gasket at 250,000 and just put a head gasket on to get it going. 4,000 miles later I started to get a rod knock. So I decided to rebuild it myself. I found a machine shop that builds street drag Honda engines because they were the only shop I could find that could torque plate bore the block. I bought a LCE rebuild kit. Had the engine torque plate bored. Balanced everything including the flywheel. Decked the block and machined the head. Mild port work done. 1mm bigger valves installed and used ARP cylinder head studs. Also installed mild cam and stiffer valve springs. Put the engine togather myself and am very happy with the results. It was a lot of work and money ($800 for machine work & $1200 basic rebuild parts). After the rebuild the truck runs smooth all the way up to 6,200 RPMs and idles smooth too. It has been over 30,000 miles and still running strong. I rebuilt the engine years ago before I found out about the 3rz swap. If I were to blow a motor now I think it would be cheaper to install a used 3rz, ether way it's a lot of work.

runr-meech · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 23, 2012, 10:11:13 AM »

Putney builds the best.

Dingman. · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 23, 2012, 08:29:26 PM »

X2 putney is awesome!

Vang530 · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 27, 2012, 03:28:26 PM »

+3 Jim Putney aka 22reperformance.com

IronClad · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 27, 2012, 03:57:20 PM »

putney for sure

22rMudToy · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 27, 2012, 05:06:15 PM »

putney here too. Definetly builds the best heads and puts alot of time into his engines. He's got several youtube videos up of how he builds and machines his engines. Worth taking the time to watch if you're in doubt.

THEMAN · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 02, 2013, 08:37:06 PM »

Putney seems to be the overall choice. Now to decide between 22RE by Putney, 3RZ, or 5vz...

daniresch · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 02, 2013, 09:50:53 PM »

personally 5vz if money allows, cant go wrong with either one tho

Sparkplug · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 02, 2013, 10:03:09 PM »

The problem with rebuilding the bottom end is, the 22r was a blueprinted motor from the factory, Super tight tolerances. Their rebuild specs in their books, if anyone has ever used them, are VERY lenient. For everything from trans to engine. These engines were setup extremely critical when they were first made, regardless what the fsm would have you believe. Ive personally seen how rods are checked, and resized. Its not a very easy task to do extremely critical. 95 Percent of machine shops dont care about getting specs super right, JUST WITHIN SPEC. This is the case on many of the specs on the motor, Including turning the crank, Thrust washer clearance, yada yada. This all being extremely tight from TOYOTA, is the reason these engines lasted so long.

2k miles, 20k miles, 100k miles, does not mean anything, When you start seeing rebuilds push 200,250,300k , then you can call it a reliable build. This rarely, if ever happens., and there has been plenty of time for it to happen. The only ones with 300k+ are original bottom ends. Ive dealt with more 22rs than the avg guy. They ARE NOT the chevy 350 of the engine world like most joe blow machinists will tell you

emsvitil · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 02, 2013, 10:31:09 PM »

Quote from: Sparkplug on Jan 02, 2013, 10:03:09 PM

The problem with rebuilding the bottom end is, the 22r was a blueprinted motor from the factory, Super tight tolerances. Their rebuild specs in their books, if anyone has ever used them, are VERY lenient. For everything from trans to engine. These engines were setup extremely critical when they were first made, regardless what the fsm would have you believe. Ive personally seen how rods are checked, and resized. Its not a very easy task to do extremely critical. 95 Percent of machine shops dont care about getting specs super right, JUST WITHIN SPEC. This is the case on many of the specs on the motor, Including turning the crank, Thrust washer clearance, yada yada. This all being extremely tight from TOYOTA, is the reason these engines lasted so long.

2k miles, 20k miles, 100k miles, does not mean anything, When you start seeing rebuilds push 200,250,300k , then you can call it a reliable build. This rarely, if ever happens., and there has been plenty of time for it to happen. The only ones with 300k+ are original bottom ends. Ive dealt with more 22rs than the avg guy. They ARE NOT the chevy 350 of the engine world like most joe blow machinists will tell you

So if you rebuild it, where should you be spec wise?

middle
loose
tight

Sparkplug · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 02, 2013, 10:41:28 PM »

Lol, thats the problem. Its all dependent, There arent magic numbers, The machinist would have to take his time to figure all that out. If he did, he would almost definitely not make his money out of it, unless he charged you accordingly, which most arent willing to pay for when they hear the cost.

There is so much to building a reliable engine. To hear people say its easy is kind of rediculous. If that was the case you wouldnt have legnedary engine builders, or people being paid 100s a hr, and having people ship motor across continents to have certain builders do them. Engines living 200k, or handling insane hp or boost is a true test of a build, not small amounts of miles, or hours wheeling in lo range.

Sparkplug · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 02, 2013, 11:00:06 PM »

For the people claiming 30k, 50k, 70k. This is why shops stay open, because to put an engine together that lasts up to 50k miles, really is easy. Almost anyone can do it. Companies do it all the time with new engines they release, and have horrible issues afterwards. After 50k, how the hell are you going to prove the mach shop fault? Youve already done numerous fluid changes, and prob alternator or something. Or its after the 2 or 3 yr warranty, instead of warrantying the work itself. Granted there are shops that still do good honest work, and honor warranties, so im told. Ive been through a bunch, and found flaws in all of them. Im speaking from experience when I say keep it stock. Ive pulled apart a few "rebuilt" engines in my toyota time already. I currently own a toyota with over 400k on the stock engine, and it just now got a new head.

A stock 22r can go 30k on one oil change and not bat an eye, doubt most rebuilds would handle it near as well.

emsvitil · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 02, 2013, 11:09:28 PM »

I don't have the tools to do all the machine work.

I do have the tools to measure the machine work.

If you know the specs you want, you usually can get those specs.........

22rMudToy · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 02, 2013, 11:43:02 PM »

If you decide to do the 22r then go putney and if you wonder about the machine work then look on youtube. They're very detailed. They take alot of pride in their work. Obviously 5vz would be the best motor to put back in. More expensive though.

THEMAN · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 03, 2013, 11:52:40 PM »

Quote from: Sparkplug on Jan 02, 2013, 10:03:09 PM

The problem with rebuilding the bottom end is, the 22r was a blueprinted motor from the factory, Super tight tolerances. Their rebuild specs in their books, if anyone has ever used them, are VERY lenient. For everything from trans to engine. These engines were setup extremely critical when they were first made, regardless what the fsm would have you believe. Ive personally seen how rods are checked, and resized. Its not a very easy task to do extremely critical. 95 Percent of machine shops dont care about getting specs super right, JUST WITHIN SPEC. This is the case on many of the specs on the motor, Including turning the crank, Thrust washer clearance, yada yada. This all being extremely tight from TOYOTA, is the reason these engines lasted so long.

2k miles, 20k miles, 100k miles, does not mean anything, When you start seeing rebuilds push 200,250,300k , then you can call it a reliable build. This rarely, if ever happens., and there has been plenty of time for it to happen. The only ones with 300k+ are original bottom ends. Ive dealt with more 22rs than the avg guy. They ARE NOT the chevy 350 of the engine world like most joe blow machinists will tell you

This is exactly the reason that I was asking! As I know that I can easily slap together a long block, hell I've built 3 small block chevy's but then again as you stated most chevys start having issues after 50K miles. This is why I wanted to know who to go to other than Toyota and get a new engine.

Quote from: 22rMudToy on Jan 02, 2013, 11:43:02 PM

If you decide to do the 22r then go putney and if you wonder about the machine work then look on youtube. They're very detailed. They take alot of pride in their work. Obviously 5vz would be the best motor to put back in. More expensive though.

I agree. The reason I was looking at the 3rz is that Big Mike here raves about it and that it has a actual timing chain not a belt that needs changing every 90k miles like the 5vz. The 5vz also seems like much more of a chore to work on that the simple 3rz. Perhaps I'm wrong I have not worked on either. A mechanic friend of mine said he had done a couple of 3rz conversions and that he didn't really notice much increase in horse power and that if I was going to change the motor that I might as well go with the 5vz with or without the super charger it would still be one hell of a motor in my first gen runner.

22rMudToy · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 05, 2013, 09:38:19 PM »

I think BigMike and Marlin both run 3rz motors. And for good reason, they're 150 horses stock with fuel injection so they wont stall out on steep hills and they are very strong motors. LCE built one with a sh*t ton of boost and a alot more mods that made 1400 horsepower

. The most iv ever seen first hand out of a 22r was 230 at the rear wheels with nitrous. Obviously not a DD though. But if a 22r is what came out of your 4runner then obviously its already a bolt in affair. Whereas the 3rz and 5vz both require a little more work and money.

I guess what im trying to say is the R series is a very reliable motor that can be modded to make more horsepower over stock (For now Iv spent around 700 on mine and according to a laptop dyno im at 138 horses, 149ft/lbs of torque and stock numbers for the late carb'd 22r's are 103 horses and like 120ft/lbs..RE's were 116hp and 129ft/lb or somethin like that??) but they are drop in fit.

3rz around 150 horses and 5vz around 195 horses stock are way stronger but not so much drop in. They are do-able though. If i ever did another swap id do the 5vz and work around the fitment issues with a hammer and a saw lol.

You honestly cant go wrong with a Toyota motor as long as its not the 3.0 3vz (3.slow) I think they were just as strong as the 3rz but twice the weight and half the mileage lol. Toyota probably will never compete with 383 strokers but They'll last and always keep kickin. Another one to look into is the newer 2.7L 2TR. I think they came out in 06 but dont quote me on that. It'd be even more work probably since they're newer no one has really did a 2TR swap that iv seen but 166 horses and lighter than a v6 sounds really promising lol. Maybe one day BigMike will give us a write up on that.

Sorry if i just put up alot of numbers you didnt want to read, My family owns a race shop so iv seen alot of dynos and motors and iv always thought dyno's are the only true proving ground for a motor.

Also i know there will be one richard head that says "the 22r had 102 horses stock not 103" and try to start something...dont. Im not sayin my numbers are completely 100% right but they're pretty freaking close. Im just letting the OP know different things about the different motors to choose whatever he likes best.

22rMudToy · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 05, 2013, 09:52:25 PM »

One last thing, in the first post it said beefed up 22re's dont last as long, well i agree to an extent. once you bore these motors .080 over for no reason at all, then yea its not gonna last very long but doing simple intake, head , and exhaust mods wont mess with the reliability as long as the parts match and work together with each other.

And the whole blueprinted and balanced thing, well im not tryin to argue but when i rebuilt my 22r before doing the swap i didnt really worry about getting everything to EXACT specs and im coming up on 80,000 miles since then..maybe i got lucky and had a great machinist? The only problems iv had out of it at all is leaking front main seal. The head gasket leaks but thats my fault cause i messed it up replacing the timing chain when the plastic guides broke at 70,000 miles. Thought my rear main seal was leaking but it was a false alarm.

Cheesemaker · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 07, 2013, 07:26:56 AM »

If I had the skills, I'd go 3RZ in a heartbeat. I've ridden in 88Pathy's on here, with 4.88's, and 35's it was very impressive. Now, I've followed BigMike up the Four Lane on the way to Shaver Lake last summer, and we were doing 65-70mph uphill, (it's a steep steady climb, iirc 8%) and he said he wasn't pushing it hard. He still had a ways to go on the throttle, but he didn't want to loose me.

And he's running 5.29's, and 37's!

But I'm an old racer who loves V8 muscle, and anything larger than my 22RE would get me in trouble. I already drive it like I stole it.

88_Pathy · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 07, 2013, 01:08:14 PM »

The 3rz runs well. 4.88s and 37s now...

THEMAN · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 11, 2013, 12:45:02 AM »

Quote from: Cheesemaker on Jan 07, 2013, 07:26:56 AM

If I had the skills, I'd go 3RZ in a heartbeat. I've ridden in 88Pathy's on here, with 4.88's, and 35's it was very impressive. Now, I've followed BigMike up the Four Lane on the way to Shaver Lake last summer, and we were doing 65-70mph uphill, (it's a steep steady climb, iirc 8%) and he said he wasn't pushing it hard. He still had a ways to go on the throttle, but he didn't want to loose me. And he's running 5.29's, and 37's!

But I'm an old racer who loves V8 muscle, and anything larger than my 22RE would get me in trouble. I already drive it like I stole it.

Big Mike also has a supercharger on his 3rz

Rocksnail · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 11, 2013, 11:46:12 AM »

I'm pretty sure BigMike took the charger off.

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