Topic: 24 volt winch and welder.

[headlight]

  SO the Army has "donated"  a 18,000 pound winch and a 24 volt welder to my bluild.  My problem is I am not sure how to hook them up.  Well that and I think the winch might be a little heavy.  Anyways  anybody got any suggestions?  Am I gonna have to do a dual battery setup?  40 more days and I am stateside.  Can't wait to finish this bluild. 

[GNasty 82]

To run 24 volts, your looking at entirely separate electrical system.  Most who do dual batteries, put them in parallel so that they maintain a 12v system, just with the ability to draw larger current.  What you're thinking of is putting the batteries in series, which would yield 24v, but you would kill most electrical things in your truck, being that everything from the lights to the sensors runs on 12v.  The other problem, is that the alternator can only charge a 12v system.  The max voltage from most standard alternators is ~16-17v, and they only achieve that when charging a nearly depleted battery.

All that being said, they do make 12v to 24v dc-dc converters, but they get pricey quick when you start wanting high current capacity and I have never used a military 24v welder and have no idea what kind of current load it demands.  Same goes for the winch.

[headlight [OP]]

So basically I am screwed.  Well I got this awesome winch which is Warn, and a cool ass welder and cant use them on my rig.  Maybe I can sell them both or trade them for a regular winch.  Anyone need a 18 grand winch? 

[V-Man]

 Think out side the box...Large trucks use 12v for every thing too, but some have a 24v starter.  How can you run a 24v starter on a 12 system?   


They use a special solenoid to tie two 12 batteries off the 12v system together in series just for the starter..

   A second idea, is to switch the alternator and batteries to a 24v system but run an A/B POWER system. The only possible problem would be that both batteries share the same ground...
which could short the second battery to the first.  A and B have to be ISOLATED from each other.. so this may not work...


You could add a second alternator and a set of deep cycle batteries just for the winch and welder..
 Here are a couple sites for alternators
http://www.best-price.com/search/landing/query/24+volt+alternator/s/google/koid/7001332086/gkaid/24037955/?gclid=CICZxaO5-KUCFYQUKgodiAqOng

http://www.elreg.com/24-volt-dc-alternators.html

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/car-alternator-24v.html


 Good luck.
   

[GNasty 82]

 Think out side the box...Large trucks use 12v for every thing too, but some have a 24v starter.  How can you run a 24v starter on a 12 system?   

This is kind of true.  Most big rigs are a base 24v system.  The alternator, starter, engine(ecu and sensors) and many other things are 24v parts.  They do have a 24v to 12v dc-dc converter (which is a lot less expensive than going 12v to 24v) for all the standard stuff such as cigarette lighter power outlets and lights (some even have 24v lighting systems).  I state this based on my own experience with my father's rig, which is several years old.  It wouldn't surprise me if the newer rigs run more off the 12v system, since the price of 24v to 12v converters has dropped a lot in recent years, but they still must use a 24v alternator to charge a 24v system.

   A second idea, is to switch the alternator and batteries to a 24v system but run an A/B POWER system. The only possible problem would be that both batteries share the same ground...
which could short the second battery to the first.  A and B have to be ISOLATED from each other.. so this may not work...

This is actually a pretty good idea to make this happen, only you don't have to keep the grounds isolated from one another.  You just put in a 24v to 12v dc-dc converter to run all your normal 12v stuff.  The converter is fairly cheap, being that it's just a voltage divider.  The more expensive parts would be the alternator and the new guages for monitoring your battery voltage (you would want to monitor the 24v level as well as the 12v level).  The only caveat would be the current load that the 12v starter would put on the dc-dc converter might cause some problems.



Moving on to another (similar) solution, you may not even need to use a dc-dc converter if you run 2 12v batteries in series (24v) and a 24v alternator.  Just tap into 1 battery for your 12v stuff since each battery is putting out 12v.  It will be a voltage divider in itself.  The important thing here is to make sure you do it right and check it twice. 

See this link from a guy with a similar situation for some more detail on this method.
http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/car-and-truck-talk/118628-high-amp-24v-to-12v-conversion.html


Good luck.

[V-Man]

This is kind of true.  Most big rigs are a base 24v system.  The alternator, starter, engine(ecu and sensors) and many other things are 24v parts.  They do have a 24v to 12v dc-dc converter (which is a lot less expensive than going 12v to 24v) for all the standard stuff such as cigarette lighter power outlets and lights (some even have 24v lighting systems).  I state this based on my own experience with my father's rig, which is several years old.  It wouldn't surprise me if the newer rigs run more off the 12v system, since the price of 24v to 12v converters has dropped a lot in recent years, but they still must use a 24v alternator to charge a 24v system.

  All trucks use a 12v system now.  They have four batteries and  some fancy solenoids

[Hawk Thor]

I´m sure you could get a 12V motor from Warn for that winch. If I remember correctly they´re not that expensive, and then sell your 24V motor to someone with a 24V truck to recoup some of the money.

[2manytoys]

There is still some heavy equipment out there that uses 24 volts to the starter only. It uses a series-parallel switch to do it.

It's a large solenoid looking item that switches your batteries (at least two) from parallel to series to give you 24 volts "just to the starter" when you hit the key switch. Everything else in the system is 12 volts, including the alternator.

This setup should work for your winch in theory. The only thing that would concern me is how long would it last. Starting an engine is a pretty short duration compared to winching. I don't know what kind of duty cycle those series-parallel switches have.


The switches are pretty pricey unless you find one in a bone yard. Wiring it really isn't that complicated. Find a schematic for somthing that uses it and substitute the winch for the starter in the drawing. Maybe Google "series parallel starting circuit" to find a schematic.

The only thing I can think of right now that I worked on that used this system is old Wagner mining equipment. LHD loaders.

As long as you keep the rest of your electrical system connected to one battery only, you're not going to hurt anything. The winch will be in it's own circuit just like a 24 volt starter would be.

This may be doable. Do a little research. If you understand DC electrical circuits you might make this work.

Good Luck! Let us know if you get it working.