Topic: Exhaust leak causing a miss?

[Jagdverband44]

Got an 85' EFI 22re that has a high idle and a miss at 2700-2900 rpm under light to moderate load. I plugged two open Vacuum ports on the manifold and used starting fluid to seek more out but came up dry. I am going to get a Harbor Freight timing pistol and set the timing to spec in the morning to see if any improvements are gained. I have a fairly substantial exhaust leak where the manifold connects into the downpipe that can be heard even at idle and was thinking that somehow the oh 2 sensor is creating a lean condition because its getting a bad reading.

     I read another thread about a guy with almost exactly the same problem who replaced the little donut gasket where the leak was (among things) and it took care of his problem. What else besides bad timing and vacuum leaks could be causing the described condition?  Thx - 
   

[81_yota]

 :thumbs:sounds like Ur on track but try exhaust first before u burn up a valve

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

:thumbs:sounds like Ur on track but try exhaust first before u burn up a valve

 A dropped valve would be pretty crappy. Lean condition makes the combustion very hot so I need to persuade Mr. Nippon Denso to give my engine a little more fuel. I will get started in the morning and post up progress. I have a 700 mile trip on sunday so I need to fix this miss so my engine doesnt melt.

      Just changed oil out to Mobil 1 Diesel with a Moly additive and MT-90 and the trans shifts like its new with 207k on the guage.

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

Fixed the exhaust leak, set timing at 5 degrees BTDC, adjusted TPS and found a vacuum leak at the PCV valve that dropped the idle down to normal. All of this did not fix the choppy idle and while the miss is over a narrower range, it is still there. What I need to do is smooth out the idle and make the miss go away. The PCV valve is a generic Vatozone with a tiny aluminum plate and when the engine is revved the valve chatters because of the pressure. Would an OEM Toyota PCV fix the miss and choppy idle or do I need to get more advanced, like adjust the afm? I am going to run injector cleaner, new PCV valve, clean afm and TB, new plug wires and NGKs and see what happens...after I get paid.

 Stupid question...How would one know if a 22re has a mild cam? My 82' will barely hold 65 on a flat highway with a Weber 34/34 and a Thorley Tri-y and this Runner with a 22re wil cruise at 70 all day and pull hills that would put the 82' in 3rd gear and the engine seems stock...with a somewhat lopey idle. If this were the case, does a 22re still run smooth at idle with a mild cam or does it need larger injectors to keep up with fuel demand.
My 82' has a lot more low end than the 85' and stops making power at 2500 rpm. Food for though if anyone can help me out.

[81_yota]

i would check ur plugs check gap ect basiclly ur lookin to see if it is fuel related or ignition.

[jimbo74]

a pcv valve isnt going to cause your issue...

why are you running such a thick oil? and why a diesel oil? a lot of people say it is fine in a gas engine, and for the most part, it is, but they are very thick, and have a lot of extra junk in them that a gas engine doesn't need.... additives are garbage, and no good oil should ever need anything added to it

[81_yota]

if anything i would be runing 10-40 or greater due to anything lower they take friction modifiers out i run 10-40 syn in all my rides if lower go with a high milage oil reason in highmil oil they add the friction mods so u pay more cash for it only reason i say this is i have talk to a guy i know really will that works with the oil companies its messed up but he said its how they get ya

[jimbo74]

there is no reason for additives.....

additives do not fix a broken engine

[81_yota]

off subject all i can say is do your research very well before u say things for most part synthetic oils are way better and most of those have additives so additives help your motor in many many areas like cutting down friction and oil break down so idk where your getting ur info but back to the guys issue. have u replaced your fuel filter?

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

Haha the great oil debate! Yota, where is the fuel filter, I was just thinking the same thing! Don't have an FSM for the 85'.....yet. I have an unused port on the blue capped vacuum solenoid. A vacuum line runs off the white part of this solenoid and connects to the fuel pressure regulator one the fuel rail. Is there a place where this should be hooked up, because if the fuel pressure is off it could cause a lean condition. There is an unused plug on the right side of the engine and two sheathed wires that have been cut which probably had a plug on then. The plug has the ND logo and the number 3, any ideas? Anyone with an 85' FSM?

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

Bad news. Checked the plugs and the electrodes looks like christmas trees and the color of them is gray  . I really hope there is no engine damage. I need to know what may be causing this lean condition or i'm going to lose the motor, which is new. The engine is bored .30 over so it may need more fuel to accomodate this larger displacement? Could it be the EGR causing the problem and if so, how do I fix it? I read somewhere about an AFM screw that has a factory plug, and my afm has this screw uncovered. Which way do you turn it to give more fuel? I asked a guy at a local shop and he told me that the system automatically adjusts to the engine's fuel need regardless of mods, I told him that if the engines management automatically adjust why am I having the problem. Damn service writer who know how to push a pen.

[81_yota]

under cab on frame unless someone relocated it now on plugs got a pic of how bad they are ?

[81_yota]

all i can say is this i need pics now lol sorry if u cant post pm me ill see what i can do

[81_yota]

ok make sure ur plugs r the correct ones then how was ur timing was it off cuz if it is or was to much advanced this will happen or u say possible vac leak get me pics of the areas and will see what we can do

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

Hey 81, thanks for your help! I will try to post pics tomorrow of everything I have found. I set the timing at 5 BTDC with diagnostic plug jumper'd and rpm at 750. The rpm dropped when the plug was jumper'd as expected and I read that this indicates that the tps is functioning properly, but i'm not going to weed that out just yet. I adjusted the afm gear as described on 4crawler.com one notch left from where it was and the idle smoothed out a lot but the miss did not go away. Doesnt make sense because when you richen the mixture at the afm gear, its supposed to deliver more fuel at a higher rpm and get rid of my lean miss! I am going to get pics up and keep reading up on 4crawler.com....it takes a few times to read because I have to pull the useful info out of the geeky garble.

    Oh and change my oil to a super premium synthetic from Germany and add a liquid platinum additive to see if that fixes my lean miss,but i will make sure that I use a thinner viscosity like 0w20 for Prius' (Prion).

[81_yota]

i would change your plugs and then recheck timing and if plugs run hot for to some time the electroids will go bad so change them or your gonna wanna pull your hair out idk about that thin of oil 0-20w or 0-40 on older motors not that great sounds messed up but for examp i ran that in my 96 subaru and i did not like the sound of the motor if your gonna run syn like mobil 1 or ams oil or royal purple u might go as low as 5-20 but keep this in mind with a thicker oil will boost ur oil pressure theres alot of things to know about oils and brands not saying i know it all but i a GOOD amount thats why i run 10-40 syn in my rides and in warm outside temps 20-50 syns if ur gonna run it hard u might wanna be around there

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

i would change your plugs and then recheck timing and if plugs run hot for to some time the electroids will go bad so change them or your gonna wanna pull your hair out idk about that thin of oil 0-20w or 0-40 on older motors not that great sounds messed up but for examp i ran that in my 96 subaru and i did not like the sound of the motor if your gonna run syn like mobil 1 or ams oil or royal purple u might go as low as 5-20 but keep this in mind with a thicker oil will boost ur oil pressure theres alot of things to know about oils and brands not saying i know it all but i a GOOD amount thats why i run 10-40 syn in my rides and in warm outside temps 20-50 syns if ur gonna run it hard u might wanna be around there


             Correction on my part. To my relief, the plugs are Irydium and look burnt to begin after much inspection. I ordered the correct NGK plugs, NGK wires and a Mann fuel filter and Dizzy cap before messing with the AFM any more. Plan is to change all of the bad stuff out, if miss is there still, then adjust TPS and afm and get reading from the 02 sensor.  Does anyone know what the voltage range for the Oh 2 should be? Gonna crack this damn thing 



   Yota, I'm kidding about the 0w20   . Off topic; A 22r, unless built with zero clearance parts like rings and rod and crank bearings needs at least a 5w30. They run noisy with thin oil which means the oil barrier is being broken in critical areas like the ones I said. I run diesel oil because I do a lot of city driving which causes a lot of sludge. If people would read UOAs and do some very basic research, they would find that diesel oil is more suitable for older style engines that use a flat tappet valve train to protect the cam and tappets. They carry, especially Rotella T6, a level of zddp that is adeduate, if not better than old style oils to protect against scuffing. Mobil 1 5w40 is almost as good as T6 according to many Toyota UOAs, but none of the local stores carry it, so I use a Mobil 5w for winter and 15w for summer. Lubro Moly MOS2 cuts wear to a minimum and UOAs prove it. It keeps blow by to a minimum because of its ability to adhere to lands and grooves in metal and provide a secondary barrier for those momentary times when on severe angles while wheeling. We have been using it in Mercedes diesels for years and would not run without it. I use it in my 82' 22r long bed, which I have rolled and lost 4 1/2 quarts of oil and then driven home 20 miles with 1/2 quart and moly. You would never have known.

  

[81_yota]

on oil you took what i was trying to say and said it lol

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

I give up. Changed fuel filter which was really fun because the 85' has no access panel on the kickboard, plugs, plug wires, and diz cap didnt change anything so I mess with the afm settings and cannot get it to run between too lean or too rich. It is probably something really obvious like a bad temp sensor or TPS don't have an FSM so referencing is hard. I don't have anything to drive except for a motorized 2 stroke schwinn. The rain dripped through the rust in the firewall and when I started the motor I heard two pops so I'm pretty sure the fusable links just went out or worse because the fuses are good. From the frying pan to the fire, what a clusterf**k  .

[jimbo74]

you can download the fsm for free

www.ncttora.com

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

Stupid question, could tight valves be causing my problem (lean misfire/rough idle)? Also, the air pump was unplugged because the e-clip is cracked, plugged it back in and it didnt change a thing, if the air pump isnt functioning, could it be causing my issue? Checked EGR and its functioning just fine, no trouble codes on ecu, TPS is fine timing, etc..... so what about engine valves. After an engine has run for a few thousand on a rebuild, sop is to adjust them. I just dont have any more ideas  .

[81_yota]

anything is possible but maybe wanna check ignition parts my friend is having same issue and seems to be his ignition modual going bad and all i can say sit down when u price it we are currently swapping it over to an old gm style hope it cures it with gm parts are cheaper to replace

[twistedtoy92]

If your valves are too tight then they will not close all the way thus causing a small misfire occasionally at different rpm's depending on the combo of valves too tight. I adjust my valves every few months just to stay on top of it, doensnt take much time to do and it eliminates incorrect valve lash. It is also possible that you might have a lazy or dirty injector not keeping up with the rest. I always ultra sonic clean and flow test my injectors to ensure they are balanced. If you dont have access to an injector cleaner then find a place that does injectors and have them done. They will install new injector screens, o-rings, and grommets as well.

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

anything is possible but maybe wanna check ignition parts my friend is having same issue and seems to be his ignition modual going bad and all i can say sit down when u price it we are currently swapping it over to an old gm style hope it cures it with gm parts are cheaper to replace

  Would an ignition problem be causing a lean condition? How would I check the IM for proper function?

If your valves are too tight then they will not close all the way thus causing a small misfire occasionally at different rpm's depending on the combo of valves too tight. I adjust my valves every few months just to stay on top of it, doensnt take much time to do and it eliminates incorrect valve lash. It is also possible that you might have a lazy or dirty injector not keeping up with the rest. I always ultra sonic clean and flow test my injectors to ensure they are balanced. If you dont have access to an injector cleaner then find a place that does injectors and have them done. They will install new injector screens, o-rings, and grommets as well.

 

  When I checked the plugs, they were all the same ash gray. What would someone charge to have this done? Don't think this is the issue because the engine makes plenty of power and motor is pretty new. I have to check all of the receipts to see if this was done. Off topic: when a shop perfoms a crank "grind" does that mean the same thing as a balance or am I mistaken?

   I'm pretty stumped but I am going to go through the system again.  The air valve was unplugged and I need to know if a non functioning air valve could be causing my problem. I could see a stuck open valve causing a vacuum leak type condition that causes the problem I am having. I plugged it in but nothing changed. The clip is broken and I doubt it actually made a good connection. Would someone explain this valve to me, I'm new to this EFI game. Thx!

[81_yota]

weak ignition could cause lean condition i would suggest you get a hayne manual has all info on testing your sensors and ignition componets

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

I'm going to get a Hayne's today, check everything , set valves, fix rust in the firewall and check the steering column ground. If nothing works and everything checks fine, I have an appointment with a professional shop on Monday that says they have guys who know the old Toy EFI systems. This is my first EFI vehicle, my 82' is Weber'd and my 93' Dodge CTD is on ebay....will be missed  . So far I am not having luck with the EFI and want a Benz OM617 or a 4bt, one of which is in the long term plan book. IMO diesel is the only way to go.

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

Got the Harbor Fruit vacuum guage hooked up today and found that the guage fluttered around 2.5-3k rpm....scratched my head for a second and then adjusted my valves. All were set way too tight (one intake was less than 0.10mm) and when I was done, my miss was mostly gone and the idle smoothed out a lot. Tight valves were the culprit. It still idles a little rough and I think its time the EGR get removed until smog, TPS gets adjusted and an OEM PCV  gets put in. The Kragen one that is in there sounds like one of those twirly noisemaker toys. Going to run some heavy duty fuel system cleaner in the gas as well to try and smooth it out, but it will always sound like an egg beater.

[twistedtoy92]

right on! thats what it sounded like to me.... I have the same sorta issue about 6 months ago. I adjust/check my valves every months or two depending on how many miles I put on it! 

[Jagdverband44 [OP]]

right on! thats what it sounded like to me.... I have the same sorta issue about 6 months ago. I adjust/check my valves every months or two depending on how many miles I put on it! 

  I love how it takes 15 minutes to do a valve adjustment. Now to block off the EGR!

[twistedtoy92]

hell yes!