Topic: My 3.0 is hurting:(

[tommyboy]

Alright guys I've got a nice idle problem with my 3.0! Before anyone says search, I want you to know that I've read all 173 pages in this tech thread of this forum! But it won't hurt my feelngs if you do. So here we go...I recently did a head gasket job after recently purchasing the truck with a low compression #5 cylinder. I know this because he told me not because I tested it myself. As soon as I got it I just tore into it. But anyways, I followed my chiltons word for word(for the most part). I had some timing troubles but I go it all far enough to be drivable but not dependable. So here are my issues..it's a pain to get fired, it takes a couple cranks. It won't idle at what it should, which I think is 1200 at start and 800 at idle(?) Takes forever to get warm, forever! I'm not throwing codes. Runs sloppy when the gas is on, I have to bury it. I haven't put new plugs in yet, but all the other ignition stuff is new. I'm addressing that issue asap. Tested the airflow sensor with a multimeter and it was good. Did the same with the tps, checked out fine. What's left? I put in a new thermostat and water pump. All vac lines are good too. I know I'm forgetting stuff but please ask any questions so I know I'm getting my point across right.

[86bobbedtoy]

could be timing at the belt.
when tensioned they sometimes pull off time a little.
good luck.
all injectors O-rings good?

[stackz]

you took the guy's word that it was a head gasket and not something else like possibly bad piston rings in that cylinder?

have you done a compression and leak down test since getting it back together?  I'd personally start there.  go buy the tools from harbor freight for $30 each kit and then look on youtube for video how-to's for each scenario and report back.

[tommyboy [OP]]

86BT- I thought at first it might have been that but, it's not timing that's my issue anymore, O rings are cool too. My main problem is it's being choked. That's the best way to describe it.

Stackz- I didn't so much take the guys word for it but ya I didn't check it before hand. But ya I need to do a CT too.

[tommyboy [OP]]

It's gotta be some retarded sensor for air or that jazz. It's being choked!

[BoG-ToY]

gotta get that compression check done....

and a leak down like they said....

you sure nothing got unplugged? I know somethings wont turn on the MIL/CEL but could be pulled as a code... have you tried this?   

[tommyboy [OP]]

I'm 99% sure everythings back where it went. Went to do a compression test today, and the damn pressure dial froze! I'll report back with results asap.

[BoG-ToY]

um, it should freeze at the high mark untill you release it?

[tommyboy [OP]]

No, it's frozen as in 30 years old an died lol.

[stackz]

No, it's frozen as in 30 years old an died lol.

yeah thats not good haha.  go rent a compression tester and leak down tester from autozone, perform the tests and report back.

also, after rereading...what exactly where your timing issues?  I just timed a 3vz-e engine myself and had a small issue with how sensitive the distributor was when setting the base timing at 10*.  think the dizzy may be on the way out on this particular engine but I got it set with my g/f's help.

I will say bridging TE and E1 on the diag port was a pain in the butt due to how much grease the factory had shoved into all the ports...couldnt physically see the prongs to jam the wire I was using into place for a little while....just make sure the check engine light is flashing on the dash before adjusting the base timing so you know the timing advance is locked out in the ecu.

[tommyboy [OP]]

 
Hmm well I wasn't aware that I had to jump the diagnostic ports to clear anything with the ecu. Maybe that's my deal. I'll try it thanks!

[Snowtoy]

'93FSM

Timing procedure is under 3vze Tune-up, page EG2-25.

[tommyboy [OP]]

Ya thanks. Timing is not my issue anymore. It's now just my cold starts, and the warm up. It won't stay idling upon firing it up, I have to keep it alive with a few taps on the gas until it can stay at a steady idle. Then it takes forever to warm up, and if it's pretty cold out it won't run smoothly until it's good and warm.

[Sparkplug]

Ya thanks. Timing is not my issue anymore. It's now just my cold starts, and the warm up. It won't stay idling upon firing it up, I have to keep it alive with a few taps on the gas until it can stay at a steady idle. Then it takes forever to warm up, and if it's pretty cold out it won't run smoothly until it's good and warm.

This could all be related to your timing. Im betting you have one of the cams a hair off, maybe 2 teeth. Wer had the same problem after a hg in a 3slow I did, BUT i comp tested that motor before I took it apart. Pull the timing cover, follow fsm for setting up timing, make sure the marks stay lined up, put tensioner on, spain that pregnant dog around again till BOTH cams line up with BOTH the marks, if they do, then you are fine with timing on cam, next is dizzy. We just did ours from stratch, like the manual said.

[tommyboy [OP]]

Thank you Sparkplug.

Timing: Check! I did a once over today and set it back up and it's good, but I have the same problem.

Compression: Check! Same thing, did the test and it's vitals are good. Between 143 and 145 through out! Not bad huh? Cool

ECU: my CEL came on yesterday on the freeway. I went home, jumped it so I thought but it never blinked, but did go away this morning. WTF?
 
So there's some better info for you guys. My cold start still blows and it runs like a 2 legged dog until it's warm. And I still have to get it to idle when I fire it up. Now what?
                                                                       

[Sparkplug]

Id check the afm. If the CEL light came on, and its working like it should, it would store the code, whether it went off or not. The only way it could have lost the code, is if the ecu lost power from the battery. Are you jumping the correct terminals? its e1 and t iirc.

[tommyboy [OP]]

I checked the resistance on the afm a while back and it was within specs. My cel came on again and I'm gonna jump it in the morning. It's e1 and te1 I think. But I know I was hitting the right hole(s) haha!

[tommyboy [OP]]

Alright, now I've got new problems! When the truck is hot, and you turn it off it's a pain to turn back on. I have to give it a while to cool down. What's this all about? Runs awful once you get it fired back up too..

[Snowtoy]

Did you set the timing according to the manual? 
Is the timing correct when the terminals are jumped, and not? 
When you rechecked the timing, did you verify the #1 cyl. was at top dead center and not 180* out?
Have you gotten any codes?   
Is the engine overheating when running?
Were all of the rags accounted for w/the engine buttoned up?
Did the engine run at all when you bought it?
Have you checked to make sure the cold start injector is working?

One of the thoughts I had about the hard starting was possibly an intake leak somewhere.  Not hard to miss, depending on how the tear down/rebuild process went.  You might have a few vacuum lines hooked up wrong, no at all, cracked etc.

[tommyboy [OP]]

This thing is killing me! I've been trying to jump the diag box but it's not happening. It fires up ok, idle is still off when it's cold. Once the juices get flowing and it's nice and hot, it's hard to fire it back up. Have any of you guys ever had a problem with air in your fuel system, vapor locking it?

[stackz]

This thing is killing me! I've been trying to jump the diag box but it's not happening. It fires up ok, idle is still off when it's cold. Once the juices get flowing and it's nice and hot, it's hard to fire it back up. Have any of you guys ever had a problem with air in your fuel system, vapor locking it?

when you say hard to fire back up, does it turn over slowly or at the regular speed and just not actually cranking up?  vapor lock will not allow the engine to turn over at all.  highly doubt thats your problem.

you happen to get that code yet?  that'll at least get us pointed in a good direction.

until then.  pull your plugs out and set them down on a white piece of paper (remember which is which) and snap a pic of the electrode end and post it up for us to see.  I'm wondering if you're running on all cylinders.  also, an easy way to check spark since you've got a timing light I assume....if its inductive (the kind where you get signal by clamping around an ignition wire), just crank up the truck and check each wire itself to see if your getting spark across all of them.

another thing it "could" be but I doubt it but who knows...you might have a cracked vacuum line or one that isnt hooked up.  spray some brake parts cleaner or wd40, etc around in the engine bay (not when super hot or it could flash on the exhaust manifold lol) and see if the engine revs up.  if it does, you've got a vacuum leak somewhere in that area.

so far we know you've got compression and correct timing (though, I'm wondering about that since you keep talking about how you cant get the dash to flash when you jump e1/te1).  must be something like a vacuum leak, bad sensor, etc.

one thing I know from my turbo 2.3 fords is that these trucks have the same vane air meter setup on them which was before mass air flow meters.  on 2.3t fords...they'll go haywire when the metering spring that reads from the vane door movement goes bad.  that could be your issue as well but I have no idea how much your meter would cost to even check that as the issue...that and we dont know your code you're throwing yet.

[tommyboy [OP]]

Ok so I've replaced my TPS so far and finally got the DLC1 to cough up codes! 42 and 51 are what I got. Can someone shed some light on this for me?

[Snowtoy]

I think 42 is for a speed sensor, speed sensor circuit, possibly TPS or AFM.  IIRC, there are two speed sensors, one behind the speedometer, and one at the transmission.  The one in the speedometer went bad in my '90, causing the ecu to think the truck was idling, even when cruising along at 75.

Code 51 is possibly TPS, A/C switch, A/C amplifier, neutral start.  Where did you get the the new TPS from, was the original one bad?

If you have a Toyota dealer nearby, swing by the service department(if they are friendly) and ask to talk to a tech, they could likely give you an idea of what the code is most commonly linked to, rather  than testing each one listed.

You can download a pdf file of the what the codes could be here 3vze Codes , main site here Ebooksquad.com.  The download is free.

[tommyboy [OP]]

I'm gonna hit the dealer! Thanks, never thought of that!

[Snowtoy]

I usually get good help from the parts counter first, the service counter can be a hit and a miss, especially if they don't know you, or recognize your rig.

In the '93 Factory service manual above there is a troubleshooting section under the engine section, w/a break down of all the codes and their likely causes.  You might take a look at that before heading in, maybe print it out and circle the codes.  The more info you take in the better your chances are at getting a tech to help.