Author Topic: Reverse Shackles  (Read 3441 times)

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drybone

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Reverse Shackles
« on: Nov 23, 2002, 03:08:28 AM »
On the front leafsprings Toyota ran open shackles up front and fixed in the rear on the Land Cruisers.  But the pickups and runners have fixed up front and open in rear.

For all you Cruisers out there, do you feel you have better articulation than trucks?  

Just wanted to know what the big difference between these setup's was for?  I know people opt to reverse the cruisers (for steering and braking I guess!)  But which produces better articultion and a smoother ride. :beer: :beer: :up:
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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BigMike

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #1 on: Nov 23, 2002, 05:33:58 AM »
With rear shackles, you can achieve axle movement at a 135 degree angle, where as front shackles will get movement in at a 45 degree angle upwards.

Just thinking about it, I can imagine that a rear shackle setup will allow for a smoother ride while traveling forward, whereas the front shackle design would seem smoother in reverse, and I can imagine that both would have the same amount of flex..

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« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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drybone [OP]

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #2 on: Nov 23, 2002, 11:50:20 AM »
It seems like it would be more flexy and smooth to reverse the shackles, especially if you run Downey cantilever's up front,  makes for some huge amount's of articulation and I can easily move the front axle forward 1" to 2".  All this without having to run longer springs or trying to figure out how to weld the rear (front rear) perches.  

I do feel that the steering might fight this setup a little more and brakes might be a issue,  Cruisers and Jeepsters, how is your setup's do you like the open shackle up front fixed in the rear on the front leaf springs.
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #3 on: Nov 23, 2002, 07:39:49 PM »
But how could it be more flexy and smooth if its uptravel is in a forward motion? This is against the momentum of the truck itself.
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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rEdnECkwHeE1eR

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #4 on: Nov 25, 2002, 04:57:53 AM »
One thing is if on a cruzer if you hit a rock with the shackle it can fold back and mabe break the springs so the trucks have better approch angle.
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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wheeloverhondas

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #5 on: Nov 25, 2002, 05:25:31 AM »
if u run them in the front it gives you better driveline angles. just dont make them to long
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #6 on: Nov 25, 2002, 06:17:34 AM »
If you do it right the driveline angles are the same
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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drybone [OP]

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #7 on: Nov 25, 2002, 08:44:09 AM »
I agree about it's up travel in the forward motion being a hindrance.  I could also leave the front fixed spring hanger in place  and weld on a rear hanger and run cantilevers in the rear (of the front spring) this would be identical to the rear springs (including the leaf springs as well)

back to the point, would this be more flexy than the cruiser set up? or is there to many things that could make this setup not worth it, ie. steering, brakes whatever else might rear its head.

I'm not gung-ho on super long springs or 5" lifted springs either.  I would like a 3.5" lift out of my springs and I think the rear length is ideal for front and rear. You boys haven't tried cantilevers have you?  I have to say that they are awesome (I have downey's in the rear)  Articulation is massive and all the bumps in the road are smoothed out.  I would like to run this setup up front as well.  Need to know standard truck setup or cruiser setup, either way time and money will be the same.
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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cruzila

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #8 on: Nov 25, 2002, 10:28:45 AM »
Quote
One thing is if on a cruzer if you hit a rock with the shackle it can fold back and mabe break the springs so the trucks have better approch angle.


i hit a rock with shackle in front and broke the spring :o
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #9 on: Nov 25, 2002, 01:40:31 PM »
Hey guys I think we are overlooking the more obvious issues and concerns.

If you put the shackles on the front, how is the vehicle going to track straight? It would drift all over the road because shackles in the front can move laterally or sideways from side to side causing the truck to "steer" with the springs!

And CruzrDave told me a good thing, If the shackles are in the front, if you are going to pull up a large rock and the springs compress, since the compress in a forward direction as discussed above, then this will effectively force or push the tires into the rock itself creating more force on the rock resulting in increased traction.

But the steering thing scares me a bit. If you look at the stock Hilux setup, the springs are hard mounted to the frame in the front, so this keeps the front of the springs rigid with the frame. If you put the shackles in the front, I bet that at a stop, you could push the front of the truck by hand side to side and just watch the shackles flex and move the springs perpendicular to the frame! Going down the road might cause some excessive "walking" and would probably feel quite loose if you were to do some slaloming.

Regards,
BigMike
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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drybone [OP]

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #10 on: Nov 27, 2002, 04:09:15 AM »
:sob: :cry:

Yeah that's what I thought.  The boys at Downey told me the same thing.  Oh well!!

Anyway back to another point, Alright I'll keep the fixed point up front and I want to run canitlevers in the rear (front spring)  I would like to run Downey's rear 3" springs up front.  But what I'm concerned with is alignment of the axle.  The center of the springs would move the axle rearward (that would be bad). So to at least keep the axle where it is or to move it forward an 1" or 2" should I move the fixed point forward (build a subframe and reweld the hanger forward) or not.

any thoughts would be helpful ;D :greengrin: :up: :beer:
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:11 PM by -1 »
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BigMike

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #11 on: Nov 27, 2002, 09:29:04 AM »
Listen, you need to fabricate a custom shackle system with a double sheer heimjoint as an eyelet. Sounds confusing but I've got just the perfect pictures to show you and you will see excatly what I am talking about.

When I get home I will post some pics'
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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BigMike

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #12 on: Nov 27, 2002, 11:43:45 AM »
Dang I cant find the pictures here. I have some copies at the shop though, so I will try to get it up tomorrow.
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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drybone [OP]

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #13 on: Nov 30, 2002, 01:36:00 AM »
Where is those pics Bigmike??
  Did you have a good Turkey Day?
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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drybone [OP]

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Re: Reverse Shackles
« Reply #14 on: Jan 18, 2003, 02:09:56 PM »
:beer: :beer:

Heh Big Mike,  thought I'd  bring back this topic on the front shackle system.  you had mentioned some double heim high-zoot system for the front suspension, I was wondering if you had some pics??

Be grateful if you did, thanks a bunch. :up: :up:
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1056988800 »
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