Topic: dual case question

[Greiner]

i have a forward shift w56 transmission and a top shift transfer case that i will use for the rear case. i want to buy a bolt in crawl box. if i chose the forward shift crawl box will it bolt right up to the w56 i have or do i need to find a forward shift t case and use the shift rails out of that?

[toyotaraskmt]

the crawl box has to match your transmission. that means if you have a top shift tranny, then you have to use a top shift crawl box. if you have a forward shift tranny, then you have to use a forward shift crawl box. if you're building the crawl box yourself - just find a forward shift transfer case, buy the marlin dual case adapter, and follow the instructions on how to put it together.

[Greiner [OP]]

  that makes sense thanks for clearing that up for me

[Greiner [OP]]

i got another question? i dont have enough money  for a crawl box right now i have a top shift transfer case and a forward shift tranny will the top shift transfer case work with the forward shift transmission? or do i have to turn the transfer case into a forward shift case? 

[2manytoys]

Yes it will if you have separate trans and T-case shifter covers. You will have to cover the hole in the trans where the T-case shifter would have been and just use the top shift setup. Do you have room in front of the seat for the shifter?

If you have the later model W56 with the one piece shifter cover I'm not sure what your options are.

[2manytoys]

Not sure if you have to trim shift rail either?

[Greiner [OP]]

i have a w56-a transmission but the reverse went out. so i picked up a w56-d transmission. i was going to use the w56-a transfer case (top shift) with the w56-d transmission (forward shift). i know i need to use a block off plate but could i put the blockoff on the transmission? and use the transfer case as a top shift? just bolt it up?

and what do you mean when you ask "Do you have room in front of the seat for the shifter?"

[2manytoys]

I mean will your shifter hit the seat (if you have a bench) if you use a top shift instead of the forward shift that you had. The top shift shifter will be about 4" behind where the forward shift lever was.

I went from a top shift to a forward shift and had to cut the hole in the floor bigger because the floor was over the new shifter location. Then I had to make a new shifter cover and boot setup to cover up the bigger hole in the floor.

I "think" you might have to trim off part of the T-case shift rail where it sticks out the front too. Maybe someone else here can chime in on that.

[minicrawlin]

if your tranny is a top shift, the front t-case has to match it and be a top shift, if your trannys a forward shift the t-case has to be a forward shift. The rear case (sectioned out for only the crawl gears, making it the "crawl box") has to be a top shift either way, regardless of your tranny. You can either mod the shift rails yourself or buy a "top shift conversion kit" from marlin or others if your needing to convert your crawl box to a top shift.

If you have bucket seats you can easily make it work, bench seat might take a little more moddin i suppose.

my     

[Greiner [OP]]

okay that make more sense. so it sounds like i will have to get a forward shift crawl box or transfer case to put behind my transmission(because my tranny is forward shift). but as for cutting into the floor i have a 4runner so that wont matter that much.  thanks for all the info 

[minicrawlin]

it goes like this dude, 1st= Forward shift Transmission then 2nd= Your regular (in your case) Forward shift Transfer case then 3rd = Your "doubler adapter" (sold by marlin and such) then 4th= Your "crawl box" (which is always a top shift Transfer case with only the low range gear section removed and installed, sometimes people will put the 4.7:1 gear set into this section and create what is called a "dual ultimate" giving you the lowest transfer case gear selections compared to stock 2.28:1)

Rock on man                      and keep wheeling!! hope i was a help. if not do a quick search up in top left, massive amounts of info on this!  Start a build thread, looks like you got a sweet ride holmes!     

[2manytoys]

minicrawlin,  He mentioned also that he can't afford the crawlbox yet and can he use the top shift T-case with his forward shift trans for now.

I don't see why not. I just went out in the garage and looked at one I have. It looks like it would bolt right up.  Should would work as long as he has the top shift shifter and he covered the hole in the trans where the forward shift T-case shifter would have mounted.

I'm going to try to add a pic. Top one is W56B top shift. Bottom one is forward shift R151F. I was going to try to use one of each shift rails and both shifters to make a twin stick.

I understand what you are saying about the crawlbox but for now, I THINK he can use his top shift T-case. Unless I'm missing something.

[Greiner [OP]]

okay ima lil confused   i was looking at the gear ratio chart that is on the tech section of marlin (http://www.marlincrawler.com/tech/transmission/transmission-gear-ratio-chart ) and it says that both transmissions are the same length? at first i thought that you could use the top shift t-case right behind the forward shift tranny but now im not sure? so if anyone could clear that up for me that would be great

as for the dual case set up it sounds like i have to have a forward shift crawl box and a top shift t-case period...

but IF YOU CAN use a top shift t-case with a forward shift tranny then why wouldn't you be able to use the forward shift tranny with a top shift crawl box and t-case?

does it mess up the location of the shifters? like if i try to use the top shift t-case with the forward shift tranny untill i save enough for the crawl box will it move the shifter back so i have to cut into the floor?  

[minicrawlin]

maybe i cant relay this info as good as i thought. Look up the dual adapter install directions on the tech page (same page you got that transmission tech from) and that should get it cleared up.  you can only put one t-case without that adapter. without the adapter you can not run dual t-case's. the adapter is what allows you to use the "crawl box" that goes right behind it, which is a t-case broke down into the low range section.

if your transmission is a forward shift you must use a forward shift t-case. it has to do with how the shift rails engage. as for the crawl box it has to be a top shift as that is how the dual adapters are designed to go with them.

hope that helps, check out the dual install directions in that tech page man!

[2manytoys]

Greiner,  What is making this confusing is we are talking about two different setups at the same time. I'm going to stick with your second question about using the top shift case with the froward shift trans. SINGLE CASE SETUP

Look at the pic. The two transmissions ARE the same length. They both bolt right in to my truck. The ONLY difference I had to contend with was the shifter locations. The T-cases are the same EXCEPT for the shifter linkage and location.

Look at the pic again to see where your shifters will be if you use a forward shift trans and top shift case. They will be farther apart and you will have to make a cover plate for hole that isn't being used anymore.

So to make it simple, If your T-case is like the one in the upper trans in the pic, complete with shifter, just bolt it up, plug the other hole and go.

[2manytoys]

The cover you have to fabricate will go over the hole you see here with the blue bushing. There is no linkage sticking in here if you are using a top shift T-case.

SO, you will have to run your top shift shifter where the cover plate is here on the T-case. You can see how far apart the shifters will be and how it fit in the stock hole in the floor of my 88 pickup.

I got more pics if you need them showing the linkage and inside of case.

[toyotaraskmt]

so i was incorrect about what i said at the beginning of this thread. a top shift tranny has to have a top shift transfer case behind it. a forward shift tranny can have a forward shift OR a top shift transfer case behind it. what 2manytoys has said in his last couple post is correct if you are wanting to run what you currently have (a forward shift tranny with a top shift transfer case). just cap the transfer case shifter spot on the tranny and bolt up the top shift transfer case that you have. you wont have to do anything to the shift rails at all. and like what 2manytoys said, you may have to make some mods to your floorboards to accomodate the shifter locations (mainly the tranny shifter as the transfer case shifter shouldnt have changed locations). this is what you're looking at for running a single transfer case with what you have.

now if you wanna run duals, you have some options. first, i wanna clear up some confusion about what minicrawlin is defining as "crawl box" and "transfer case" (no disrespect). in a dual case setup, the line up goes like this: tranny - crawl box - dual case adapter - transfer case. the "crawl box" is just the reduction gears of a transfer case (in other words you would be tearing down a transfer case per the dual case instructions and only using one shift rail). the "transfer case" is a whole case consisting of reduction gears and gears giving you the option to transfer power to the front axle via another shift rail. in a dual case setup, the transfer case has to be top shift due to the fact that the dual case adapter does not accomodate the forward shift rails. as for the crawl box, in your situation it can be either forward shift or top shift and will still bolt up to your forward shift tranny. modifications to the floorboards are always required when setting up duals.

based on what i've read, i think you should just bolt up your transfer case to the new tranny that you got. shouldnt be too much modifying to your floor board. when you decide to go duals, get another top shift transfer case to make your crawl box. this way you will only have to cut one whole for the extra shifter. it will also allow more clearance for the shifters when shifting. here is a picture of what i have setup in my truck. its a W56A (top shift) with top shift cases. if you go duals, your shifters will be spaced very similar to this except for the fact that your tranny shift will be up a little higher.

[minicrawlin]

there it is man! BAM! your right sorry, no disrespect taken!! confusing people over here! Didn't bring my "A" to this thread ha ha. propably shouldn't answer when i dont know lol now i'm just gonna back up real slowly outta this thread like this , , ,           ha ha ha

[Greiner [OP]]

damn that answers everything perfect!  that gives me alot more options. minicrawlin you better be sorry  just kidin thanks for tryin to help out

[minicrawlin]

sorry man! most all my info is right bud, i'm just an idiot at explanations apparently!       but, for smaking me i must hit you back! BAM! ha ha     

[Greiner [OP]]

nice