Author Topic: Another "Why won't my truck start? Why!?!" thread... (Read 4007 times)

BAMF · « **on:** Aug 31, 2009, 05:19:35 PM »

Well, here goes another long winded post from someone who knows just enough about his engine to get him in trouble.

Despite the nagging voice in the back of my head that said, "your truck runs fine, don't mess with it over a little oil leak," I tore down the ol' 22RE the other day, to take care of said nasty oil leak between the head and timing chain cover. I got the whole thing put back together but now it won't start. It cranks over just fine but it doesn't even sound like its trying to fire.

Everything is at TDC, pistons, valves, distributor, the whole sha-bang. It has spark (shocked the hell out of myself proving that, much to the amusement of the wife

) and the fuel rail is getting fuel or at least I think it is. I cracked the banjo fittings at the end and they pour gas out. Trouble is, I can crank it over all I want but when I pull the spark plugs they are dry and the cylinder/pistons are dry.

Are my fuel injectors not injecting and if so why? I've checked all my hoses, vacuum lines, electrical connections, fuses, muffler bearings, ect. I just suck at trouble shooting engines. Should I just sell the truck, buy a Jeep, and drive off a cliff? Anyone?

86rustbucket · « **Reply #1 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 05:26:35 PM »

maybe you crimped the harness when you pulled the head, now the injector has no signal

84pickup · « **Reply #2 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 05:34:56 PM »

are you sure you have the distributor installed the right way? if you're off even just a tooth then you can't start it. did you make absolutely sure that you didn't somehow get the crank and cam off from each other? you might check your cap and rotor as well. i was helping a friend of mine work on his ford 300 inline 6 and we actually forgot to put the rotor back on the distributor before we put the cap back on. not saying thats what you did but its a funny story

Joey88RUNR · « **Reply #3 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 05:36:01 PM »

Yea I agree, my vote is the distributer is not installed correctly

brainlessfool · « **Reply #4 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:03:11 PM »

Quote from: Joeyotaman on Aug 31, 2009, 05:36:01 PM

Yea I agree, my vote is the distributer is not installed correctly

goood place to start. you could try putting some fuel right into it. pull a vac. line off a runner and shot some good carb. cleaner into it. see if it sounds like it wants to fire. may tell ya if it's fuel that way. plus it's ez!

BAMF · « **Reply #5 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:03:27 PM »

I'm 99% sure it's not the distributor or timing. I only took the engine down to the block to replace the timing chain cover gaskets and the head gasket. The crankshaft and pistons were never moved nor was the camshaft ever rotated. I marked everything right down to where the teeth meshed together from the distributor to the timing gear at the end of the camshaft. I visually inspected the #1 piston as it was TDC and checked the lobes on the camshaft. The intake just closed for #1 and the exhaust is next in line to open.

At TDC:
#1 is all valves closed
#2 is exhaust open
#3 is intake open
#4 is all closed with the intake next in line to open.
TDC right?

The distributor is right at firing #1 and yes, the rotor is on

an embarrassing mistake I have made before.

My first assumption when I first tried to start it up was that the distributor was off one tooth so I tried advancing/retarding it one tooth. No dice. I'm fairly certain it is not timing or ignition but that my fuel injectors are not injecting. Anyway to test this? As for pinching the harness, I've been very careful with. Nothing is kinked, pinched, or stretched. I clearly labeled the injectors and harness when I disassembled it. I also replaced the fuel injector grommets, seats, and O rings. The injectors themselves are fairly new (3 1/2 years with only 2000 miles on them) which are LCE flow matched injectors.

Say, was i supposed ever hook up the battery at any point?

BAMF · « **Reply #6 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:05:17 PM »

J/K on the battery. Which vacuum line should I pull? I've been thinking of just spraying some carb cleaner down the intake in front of the MAS. Yes? No?

emsvitil · « **Reply #7 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:17:35 PM »

Did you reconnect all the wires?

(I've forgotten, airflow, tps, and ignition.......)

brainlessfool · « **Reply #8 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:23:49 PM »

I would not spray down the MAS, just pull the air log and shot it past the thort. plate.then crank. your only looking for a hit or two. just enuff to tell you it's fuel.

BAMF · « **Reply #9 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:37:59 PM »

Air log? I really don't know what is what when it comes to the vacuum lines.

As for the electrical, they're all connected as far as I can tell. I've gone over everything electrical, MAS, TPS, ignition, O2 sensor, injectors, cold start, sensors, alternator, thingy under the intake, ect. Same goes for all the hoses and vacuum lines.

brainlessfool · « **Reply #10 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:43:19 PM »

Air log may not be the right name, the big tube that runs from the MAS to the throt. plate.

BAMF · « **Reply #11 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:47:00 PM »

Ah, well I can do that. Doing that now. Will return in a minute.

BAMF · « **Reply #12 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:52:51 PM »

Alrighty then. Carb cleaner down the ol' hatch fires her right up.

Now what? So its not timing, it's fuel. Is it the injectors or is it just not getting fuel. Like I said, I cracked the banjo fittings and it dripped gas. They were dry when I reassembled everything so I just assumed I was getting fuel. Is there a better way to test this out?

BAMF · « **Reply #13 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:58:36 PM »

Or could it be that the injectors are not getting a signal? Which means it is electrical. Would this throw a code?

emsvitil · « **Reply #14 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 06:59:11 PM »

Put a jumper wire in the fuel pump test connector and see if it works.

(T connector (not round) near round test connector on inner fender, front drivers side)

brainlessfool · « **Reply #15 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 07:03:43 PM »

put a test light on the injectors. find the hot side. when it's cranked it should blink. if not, bad ground. it grounds thought the puter. no power, find why.

kneedownnate · « **Reply #16 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 07:18:37 PM »

Were any of the connectors difficult to stick back together? Is it possible you pushed a wire out the other side of a connector, causing there to be an open circuit?

BAMF · « **Reply #17 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 07:38:19 PM »

Quote from: emsvitil on Aug 31, 2009, 06:59:11 PM

Put a jumper wire in the fuel pump test connector and see if it works.

(T connector (not round) near round test connector on inner fender, front drivers side)

Sweet, I learn something new about my truck everyday. Well, at least on the days when I'm not drinking. I jumped the two terminals (Fp and +B). The fuel pump kicks on like a champ and I've got pressure on the pressure regulator line. According to the FSM I should now connect a SST to the cold start injector line and see what my pressure reads but alas, I don't have a SST. So, I've got pressure. Now what?

Quote from: kneedownnate on Aug 31, 2009, 07:18:37 PM

Were any of the connectors difficult to stick back together? Is it possible you pushed a wire out the other side of a connector, causing there to be an open circuit?

None of the connectors were difficult to stick back together. I'm assuming you're talking about the electrical connectors for the fuel injectors, right?

I'm going to give brainlessfool's suggestion a shot but I'm not sure what kind of test light to use. Is this the famed "Noid test kit" that one can get from LCE? Is this something I can do without pulling the upper portion of the intake off?

BAMF · « **Reply #18 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 07:42:31 PM »

FYI, I'm handing out "Turtle Points" like candy to anyone who replies with something helpful, all under the misguided belief that everyone works for valueless internet points which have no redemption value even in the most depressed of economies.

brainlessfool · « **Reply #19 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 07:43:35 PM »

reg. every day test light. puch it down along the wire into the back side of the inj. connitor. ( granted not the best thing to do to them, butt hey ya gots ta know!) one wire will have power with the key on, other won't.
probe the hot wire, crank, do it blink? no power? time for some

?

Quote from: BAMF on Aug 31, 2009, 07:42:31 PM

FYI, I'm handing out "Turtle Points" like candy to anyone who replies with something helpful, all under the misguided belief that everyone works for valueless internet points which have no redemption value even in the most depressed of economies.

RIGHTY YOU ARE!

( I come cheap)

BAMF · « **Reply #20 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 07:56:07 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but instead of jabbing away at my delicate wiring harness and connectors with sharp pointy things, would this also work if I was able to disconnect a injector clip and and probe the actual connector?

And apparently Turtle Points must have some sort of intrinsic value since the mysterious ways of the Great Internet wont allow me to hand out more than 1 an hour to you. You'll have to settle for a chicken running away from Santa Clause. Sorry Brainlessfool.

brainlessfool · « **Reply #21 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 08:01:44 PM »

Quote from: BAMF on Aug 31, 2009, 07:56:07 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but instead of jabbing away at my delicate wiring harness and connectors with sharp pointy things, would this also work if I was able to disconnect a injector clip and and probe the actual connector?

no it won't. what makes the light blink is... the injector has power all the time i.e. light is on with key on.
now when the injtor "fires" it gets grounded by mr. puter, so light goes out i.e. blinks. so it will not work unhooked, sorry. butt if your careful you don't have to damage your wires, much.

and your right. turtle point are so valued here that you can only give out one an hour to the same person.

oh well $I\'m Down$

butt Santa chicken is way cool

86rustbucket · « **Reply #22 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 10:14:47 PM »

Quote from: BAMF on Aug 31, 2009, 07:42:31 PM

FYI, I'm handing out "Turtle Points" like candy to anyone who replies with something helpful, all under the misguided belief that everyone works for valueless internet points which have no redemption value even in the most depressed of economies.

sweet deal, do you have gas in the tank? just kidding

BAMF · « **Reply #23 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 10:27:41 PM »

Quote from: 86rustbucket on Aug 31, 2009, 10:14:47 PM

sweet deal, do you have gas in the tank? just kidding

Gas? Tank? I need a gas tank?

A valid point but I checked it too. Here is your turtle point. And a chicken for making me laugh.

kneedownnate · « **Reply #24 on:** Aug 31, 2009, 11:03:40 PM »

You may have to put heat shrink over the majority of the shaft on the test light to keep it from arching, but you may be able to sneak it into the back of the connector and probe the prong inside rather than exposing wire outside where it may later develop issues. Ideally you could rent or borrow a fuel injector quick probe, stab it on each injector and it'll blink each time the injector opens.

BAMF · « **Reply #25 on:** Sep 01, 2009, 01:12:01 PM »

So, there I was, sitting on the crapper

thinking about setting my truck on fire and collecting the insurance money when I get a brilliant idea

. So I says to myself, "What about the MAS? I know it tends to be sensitive and here I am, tearing apart this engine, cleaning stuff up with harsh chemicals, spraying things around the garage, cooking meth, ect. Maybe I somehow destroyed the MAS while the whole AFM was sitting on the bench." So I go out to the garage, I've got a spare laying around, and I swap out the whole unit. I go to crank over the old girl and she fires right up. Sweet!

Now, before I toss the old AFM unit and send it off to the scrap heap, I want to test it out again to make sure it indeed does not work. I swapped them out again and crank the truck over expecting nothing. Fires right up. WTF?

One minute it's just cranking over and the injectors are not getting signal (assumed) and the next minute it's running fine. The only thing that changed, between it not cranking over and running fine, is when I swapped over the AFM units I tightened all the elbow connectors on the air tube cross over. Previously they were all just loose enough to twist together but not permanently tightened down. Could it be that by having small gaps between all the joints it was pulling enough air through the gaps and not allowing the flap in the AFM from opening?

This would prevent a signal being sent to the ECU and then to the injectors, right?

At least thats my theory and I'm sticking to it. Either that or when I wasn't looking a flock of

chickens

ran through my garage and one of them was a 22RE genius that couldn't help tinkering with my junk.

Anyhow, thanks to everyone who offered up suggestions and help. Free turtle points to the lot of you.

wakkjobb · « **Reply #26 on:** Sep 01, 2009, 05:43:57 PM »

Maybe it was a loose/dirty connection at the AFM/MAF/VAM/whatever you call it; glad you got it figured out enough to run.

>>Dan

Ruari · « **Reply #27 on:** Sep 02, 2009, 01:36:31 PM »

Same problem on my friends truck after I rebuilt his engine. Then all of the sudden it started working fine. A month later it quit again. Turned out to be a bad ground at the ECU.

BAMF · « **Reply #28 on:** Sep 02, 2009, 02:47:08 PM »

Hmmm... I think now would be a good time to check the ground on my ECU.

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