Author Topic: 22 RE Engine, Rapid Clicking Sound From Front of Engine  (Read 4649 times)

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JD

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22 RE Engine, Rapid Clicking Sound From Front of Engine
« on: Aug 24, 2009, 08:51:36 AM »
Title pretty much says it all. I have 200k miles on a 22 RE engine. It runs great, but I'm really getting annoyed at this rapid clicking sound, which is most noticeable at start-up, and usually goes away after a minute or so. I disconnected my fan belt to eliminate the alternator and water pump, so I know it's not either of them. I adjusted my valves and adjusted the valve cover to make sure it's not too tight, so I know it's not either of those.

The sound appears to be coming from the timing chain area, but that's just a guess. When I was adjusting the valves I looked at the timing chain and it was very tight, with maybe an eighth of an inch of deflection. I could see the guide on one side and it appeared intact, however I could only see a guide on one side of the chain, are there guides on both sides of the chain?

Anyway, I'm hoping it's something fairly simple, but the fact that the sound goes away after the engine runs a bit leads me to believe it's possibly some internal engine part that's needs to get coated with oil before it quiets down, but this is just another guess. Any ideas?

chim

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My first guess would be chain guides as well... do you know the history of the engine?

JD [OP]

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Yeah, it's had the cylinder head replaced twice, the second time by the Toyota dealer. What specifically did you want to know?

Also are there guides on both sides of the chain or is there just one chain guide on the one side? Because if it's just one, that appeared to be intact. Plus, the chain was so tight, I don't see how it could have damaged the guide. And the guide was already replaced once by the Toyota dealer at 100k (I'm at 200k now).

chim

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There are two guides, one on each side..  I was just wondering if you had an history of the chain being done.. maybe the guides were not torqued to spec?? I dunno.. maybe it has something to do with water pump as well..

basser530

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I had a ring seperate into pieces and wore a hole through edge of the piston. Everytime a piece of the ring would find its way out of the hole it would get smashed between the head and the piston. It made a loud slapping/clicking sound that came from the front of the engine. The sound would go away after the piece of the ring got nicely flattened out. The truck ran like this for about 6 months before I found out what it was. The engine was still running when I took it in to get it rebuilt. 22re's rock!!

JD [OP]

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I found a picture of what the guides are supposed to look like:



IIRC, when I looked in there, I only saw the guide on the left side, and didn't see one on the right side. So this could be my problem.

JD [OP]

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OK, so here is what I've got:



I don't see any guide at all on the driver's side. I looked to see if I could maybe see pieces of the old guide in the oil down below, but didn't see anything.

Chain seems pretty sloppy as I turn the engine but it tightens up fairly tight at TDC. I guess the chain slapping around is what's making all that noise. I'm forced to drive it for tomorrow at least.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
« Last Edit: Aug 25, 2009, 12:53:21 PM by JD »

Rocksurfer

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The best suggestion would be to repair it before it wears a hole in the cover somewhere. Then you will either start pouring oil out or even worse water in the oil.
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BAMF

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The best suggestion would be to repair it before it wears a hole in the cover somewhere. Then you will either start pouring oil out or even worse water in the oil.
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bako88

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I would say it must be the chain hitting.  I know some 22RE's make it to 400 - 500K.  I had to replace mine at 185K.  It had already had head work prior to my purchase of it.  It had been overheated.  Seems to me that most short life 22RE's may be from overheating.  Who knows about what happened to that chain guide though.  Maybe improper install...

JD [OP]

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FWIW, the Toyota dealer installed the guide when he replaced the cylinder head about 100-120K miles ago. I'm not sure if he replaced the chain and sprockets though.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm gonna borrow a vehicle for tomorrow and hopefully get the thing replaced on Thursday.


emsvitil

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The stock guides were POS plastic...........(breakage is common)

You'll find the oil pan full of plastic pieces

The ticking is the broken guide.    Replace chain with a set that contains steel guides.   Or get the LC dual row timing chain conversion (pricey)

Ed
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31x10.50R15

JD [OP]

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Does Marlin carry these steel guides? What about NAPA or a Toyota dealer?

I would think that if a steel-backed guide broke, you'd have a lot worse damage from metal getting crunched around than just harmless plastic getting chewed up.

basser530

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You should try www.putneyscustommachine.com he builds bad Ace Toyota engines. He can get you OEM timeing chain kits, cheap kits, steel kits, and custom duel row timeing chain kits. He's a great person to deal with.  :biggthumpup:
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2009, 07:44:29 AM by basser530 »

emsvitil

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Does Marlin carry these steel guides? What about NAPA or a Toyota dealer?

I would think that if a steel-backed guide broke, you'd have a lot worse damage from metal getting crunched around than just harmless plastic getting chewed up.

the steel guides DON'T break...........


Try engnbldr on ebay.
Ed
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22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

drayday55

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buy engenbuilders timming guids and new timming components, i got the lc engineering kit and they are same parts only more $

84pickup

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doaracingengines.com sells a really good kit or just the guides themselves for 80 bucks. and the guides are guaranteed for life against breakage.
lets not and say we did.

JD [OP]

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Well, here's the damage:



The passenger side chain guide and tensioner were fine. However the lower sprocket was missing a couple of teeth, and the driver's side chain guide (the one shown) was broken and chewed up. There were some fairly deep grooves on the inside of the timing chain cover and on the passenger side chain guide.

I need to use the truck on Friday, so I can't wait around to order custom parts, unfortunately. I bought a kit locally for $30 with new (plastic) chain guides, tensioner, chain and sprockets. I also replaced the hoses and water pump, but have yet to reassemble the whole mess. The new chain and guides are on, but that's about it. The rest has gotta wait until tomorrow.

I tried to take off the oil pan, and removed the crossmember, but it still won't come out. I read something about the steering linkage needing to be removed? I don't think there is too much plastic from the old guide in there (maybe a square inch or so, and hopefully ground up pretty good) so I'm not gonna worry about that.  

emsvitil

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What year?

86+ (IFS) you need to take out the 2 rear bolts of the differential and let it drop (pivots on front mount) to get the pan out.
Ed
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86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

JD [OP]

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It's a '91. I'm not convinced it's even necessary to clean out the pan, but since I went this far, plus bought a new gasket, I might as well finish the job. I don't know how well just bolting it back on is gonna work,with the old gasket. Think it'll leak?

drayday55

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i have a metal guide i can fed x ya if you tell me tonight ill take it to work and send it

emsvitil

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It's a '91. I'm not convinced it's even necessary to clean out the pan, but since I went this far, plus bought a new gasket, I might as well finish the job. I don't know how well just bolting it back on is gonna work,with the old gasket. Think it'll leak?

What gasket is old?

Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Plekto

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changing ALL of the parts in a timing setup to metal is a huge improvement.  Take the plastic crap back and get the metal ones.   We're talking a few dollars here.

Richmondo

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I just went through this on my dad's 86 and I would definitely recommend dropping the pan and cleaning out the plastic. If the plastic has been ground up then you run the risk of clogging the screen on the pick up tube.
It was just crazy to see this deer leap all suicidal style off this embankment right in front of us.

JD [OP]

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i have a metal guide i can fed x ya if you tell me tonight ill take it to work and send it


I wish this wasn't my daily driver, otherwise I would have taken you up on your extremely generous offer. Unfortunately I have to use the truck tomorrow, so I held my nose and threw the plastic guides in.

If I get another 100k miles on these plastic ones, that's probably good enough. That's about 10 years of driving for me, and who knows, maybe 10 years from now, cars will be outlawed and people will be flying personal helicopters to work (though I seriously doubt it).

It took most of today to get the engine put back together. I think I wound up with an extra bolt or two. Also, when I started the truck up, the timing was off so much that I was sure I'd put the chain on wrong and crunched something. But after breaking off the distributor cap (which had two rusted screws) and setting the distributor to fire on the number one cylinder at top dead center, it runs fine. Bought a new cap and rotor tonight

I also replaced my belts and hoses and water pump, so I'm hoping for smooth sailing for a couple years maybe. I may have to deal with the oil pan though, because I detached it and then just bolted it back on without any new sealer. So that may be my next project.  

wakkjobb

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Good work; glad it got fixed before it was "too late"... sorry to hear about the oil pan though; that's not 100% fun to deal with.
Quick thread-jack here: Will the 20R's double row timing set fit on single row engines? I don't see why not but I haven't been around Toyota engines much (yet).

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emsvitil

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Good work; glad it got fixed before it was "too late"... sorry to hear about the oil pan though; that's not 100% fun to deal with.
Quick thread-jack here: Will the 20R's double row timing set fit on single row engines? I don't see why not but I haven't been around Toyota engines much (yet).

 :beerchug:
>>Dan


Depends on the year of the 22r

Earlier 22r's just changed to a single row chain.    Later 22r's (shorter block), changed the timing cover and most importantly there's 2 less links in the chain, so those won't take the 2-row chain.

I think 84 (maybe a mid-year change) was when they went to the short block.

You can figure it out because the change over also changed the timing cover, water pump, and oil pump........
Ed
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22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

drayday55

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i think lc takes the 20r timming chain gudes and cuts them down to fit into the newer style

dt

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I hope your personal helicopter doesn't have plastic guides

JD [OP]

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 :D

I''m gonna wake up one of these nights in a cold sweat hearing the sound of my three day old plastic guides snapping and the chain slapping around inside the timing chain cover again like it was. I cannot believe someone designed those things to be so freakin' flimsy. What were they thinking?

I wonder if there's anything you can do to prevent this from happening? Such as allowing a few extra seconds of warm-up time so that enough oil pressure builds up to load up the tensioner properly? Or maybe just not driving at all, that would probably work.

The thing is, at this point I might as well wait for them to just snap, so going in there again to put metal ones on is not gonna save me any work. But I sure would sleep better at night.

 
 
 
 
 

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