Author Topic: 1979 Toyota 4WD Pickup alternator/regulator/wiring issues  (Read 29554 times)

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MaximRecoil

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1979 Toyota 4WD Pickup alternator/regulator/wiring issues
« on: Apr 19, 2009, 01:27:28 PM »
A mechanic replaced the alternator and regulator in my truck, and within a few weeks I was having issues. The voltage is way too high (about 16.5 volts) which makes the battery overcharge/bubble/leak. If I disconnect the regulator, the engine's idle speed increases and the voltage drops to a little over 12 volts.

I was told by the mechanic that the alternator's 3-pronged plug is LEF rather than the more common FEN. The regulator he used was an Autozone VR756, which corresponds to the Toyota part numbers 27700-38110 and 27700-38113. This is for the 55 amp alternator (I don't know if my alternator is 55 amp or not, but apparently the mechanic thought so) and has a 5-blade connector. I have ordered a new Nippondenso regulator which corresponds to the same Toyota part numbers that the VR756 does; but I'm concerned about the wiring; and I am also concerned about not knowing for sure exactly which alternator I have, and exactly which regulator I need.

Here are some pictures showing the questionable wiring and other things:







Can anyone offer some advice and/or pictures of a correct setup? All of the variables here make this a very frustrating problem; i.e., there are regulators with 5-blade or 6-blade connectors (and they will both physically plug into the same mating connector); there are regulators intended for 40-amp and 55-amp alternators; then there are of course 40-amp and 55-amp alternators; and there are LEF and FEN plug configurations. On top of that; I don't even know if it is all wired correctly (see above pictures).

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thats the biggest butcher job i have ever seen.

you need to go by the BBB in your area and turn his ass in :shake:


79 trucks had a 40 amp alternator and the regulator had a green plug

cant remember if it was 5 or 6 wires but DAMN
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PLEASE post the name /business of this self proclaimed mechanic so no one else ever goes to him for anything

AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

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:willynilly:    even drunk i would not do that to some one I do not like :shudder:
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MaximRecoil [OP]

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thats the biggest butcher job i have ever seen.

you need to go by the BBB in your area and turn his ass in :shake:


79 trucks had a 40 amp alternator and the regulator had a green plug

cant remember if it was 5 or 6 wires but DAMN

On every autoparts place and site, and even at two Toyota dealerships, when I've checked for a regulator, there is the option for a regulator that goes with a 40 amp alternator and a regulator that goes with a 55 amp alternator; for 1979. There is also the 5 and 6 blade option for 1979, but I'm not sure if that is two extra options or not. I'm thinking that maybe the 55-amp version has 5 blades and the 40-amp version has 6 blades on the plug.

Quote
PLEASE post the name /business of this self proclaimed mechanic so no one else ever goes to him for anything
I think he was trying to make do with the previous owner's hack job. I'd just bought the truck knowing that the alternator needed replacing, which he did, and replaced the regulator too. It was a few weeks before the voltage started getting too high.

I'd really like to know how to make this correct. Does anyone know what specifically is wrong (if anything) with the wiring between the regulator and alternator (besides it being an ugly hack job)?

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"a few weeks till it went bad" 

i would say the autozone regulator  died, they can and do go bad

ive had one go bad in 2 months and current one for 3 years

you can maybe find a un-chopped harness somewhere and replace the mess with it

fwiw  my 79 has the 40 amp, green plug on alt and reg
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MaximRecoil [OP]

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"a few weeks till it went bad" 

i would say the autozone regulator  died, they can and do go bad

I'm hoping that that's all that's wrong. Like I said, I have a new Nippondenso regulator which corresponds with the same Toyota part number that the Autozone regulator did, coming in the mail.

Quote
fwiw  my 79 has the 40 amp, green plug on alt and reg

That's what I'd like to do, but it seems that this alternator is uncommon (it took the mechanic a couple of days to get one, because all the parts stores had the "FEN" alternator in stock, but the "LEF" alternator, which he said I needed, was special order); and I don't know how to identify the correct alternator and harness like say, in a junkyard; and I especially don't know what to ask for on the phone when calling a junkyard.
« Last Edit: Apr 19, 2009, 06:13:01 PM by MaximRecoil »

MaximRecoil [OP]

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Okay, the new regulator has fixed the high-voltage problem, at least for now (13.6 volts at the battery, which is excellent), but there is another problem. The truck won't shut off with the key when the regulator is hooked up (it doesn't "diesel"; it just continues to run normally as though you hadn't touched the key at all). The old regulator that was over-volting did the same thing. If I disconnect the regulator, the engine turns off with the key every time.

The engine is very stripped down (all of the original emissions equipment is gone, and a Weber 32/36 carburetor is in place of the stock Aisin carburetor). This was done long before I got the truck. I've heard there was something unique about how these trucks turn off; something like a fuel-shutoff solenoid or something? If that's the case, I'm sure mine doesn't have that. However, if that is the case/problem, I'm not sure how that relates to the key working to turn off the truck with no regulator attached, but not working to turn off the truck when there is a regulator attached.

Edit: Scratch that. When I started it this morning the voltage was back up to 17 volts. I suppose the wiring is probably wrong; or something is wrong somewhere, and it is ruining regulators. I don't know what to do about it. I doubt that even the Toyota dealership would be able to fix it (I don't think those wiring harnesses are available new).
« Last Edit: Apr 21, 2009, 09:13:14 AM by MaximRecoil »

Yotaman80

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It sound like the regulator is messed up. If i were you id get an un rigged harness and start over.  BTW my 80 pickup has a six prong connector and a 40 amp alternator. I know the 55 amps were avabile but ive never personally seen one. Ive got a 80 FSM so if you need any more info on wiring or any diagrams let me know.

To help answer the problem about the regulator hooked up or not and the truck keeps running has nothing to do with the fuel shutoff solenoid. Its for california models when you let off the gas when at speeds it prevents more fuel from entering the carb and stops overheating and afterburing in the exhaust.

The reg hooked up or not when you try to shut it down is creating a short to power and back feeding the system with power keeping it running.
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MaximRecoil [OP]

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It sound like the regulator is messed up. If i were you id get an un rigged harness and start over.  BTW my 80 pickup has a six prong connector and a 40 amp alternator. I know the 55 amps were avabile but ive never personally seen one. Ive got a 80 FSM so if you need any more info on wiring or any diagrams let me know.

A scan of the wiring diagram for both the 55 amp and the 40 amp alternator would be great, if it is not too much trouble. Do you think it is the same wiring for the 1980 as for the 1979?

Quote
To help answer the problem about the regulator hooked up or not and the truck keeps running has nothing to do with the fuel shutoff solenoid. Its for california models when you let off the gas when at speeds it prevents more fuel from entering the carb and stops overheating and afterburing in the exhaust.

Ah, okay. Thanks for the information.

Quote
The reg hooked up or not when you try to shut it down is creating a short to power and back feeding the system with power keeping it running.

Interesting. Where do you suppose the short is located? When I first got the truck back from the mechanic with the Autozone VR756 regulator, the truck shut off with the key most of the time, but occasionally it would not. The problem got progressively worse as the voltage was getting higher and higher, to the point that it would never shut off with the key with the regulator hooked up. So maybe it was an intermittent short at first which somehow became permanent?

The problem followed to the Nippondenso regulator that I installed recently. Even for the day it was doing the correct 13.6 volts, the truck would not shut off with the key; so that seems to indicate that the short is somewhere in the wiring, rather than in the regulator? If that's the case; I don't see how the short is only present when the regulator is hooked up though. I suppose the short could be in the regulator, and it was created instantly (or within a minute or two) in the Nippondenso regulator; but took longer to create in the Autozone regulator.

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i have an 82 pickup, the alternator worked fine for about 2 and a half years after i had bought the truck. eventually something short circuited because of shitty old wiring. i tried for over a month to find out what the problem was, and after i had tested every part of the stupid charging system, i was so tired of it that i scrapped ALL of it and converted over to a ford alternator.

if your motor is already stripped down, this is a great conversion. the alternator i got is a Ford 3G 130 amp from a lincoln continental. 20$ at the junk yard, and it even had a new regulator on it.  it has one wire that goes to the positive battery terminal, a ground wire, and 2 other wires that just loop off the alternator to a different spot on it. so you only have to hook up 2 wires, and make a bracket.
i highly reccomend doing this if you are tired of fighting the shitty old toyota charging technology. external regulators are gay
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Yotaman80

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Ill try to get scans of those wiring diagrams up soon. Im remodeling the house so stuff got moved around but im sure i know were the scaner at.

I think that the short is in the wiring mess that goes between the regulator and the harness. try to fix that up then see what happens.
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That's a great mod there, 82 hilux   :thumbs: ... I was going to suggest raping a junk yard truck and splicing in what has been hacked, wiring takes patience and shrink tubing   :eyebrow:  . My girl has a 79, I'll try to get some pics of the regulator set-up; I replaced it/alternator a while back. It was ten tons of fun driving it back home (about 30 miles) with a dead alternator... on a snowy night  :shake_head: . Luckily her dad let us use his F250 as a 'chase vehicle'; when the lights went out I'd pull over and jumper cable-charge the battery for a few minutes, then drive on. Repeat as needed.

Fun times... good luck!!!  :beerchug:
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82 HiLux

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thanks. you just go to the junk yard and find the biggest lincoln car you can, or ford thunderbird. as long as its a 90 something and has lots of fancy features in the car (electric windows and locks, digital dash, A/C) it will have the 3G alternator. 130 amps. $21.  2 fawkin wires to hook up!

i cant see why anybody would rather have a toyota alternator when the conversion is SO SIMPLE, but thats just my opinion.  ive had really bad luck with my truck and shitty toyota alternators. i even broke one in half from wheeling too hard. i absolutely H A T E the :stopit: first gen external regulator charging system. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

its very rewarding to rip all that external regular B S out. i highly reccomend it!!
« Last Edit: Apr 27, 2009, 10:42:34 AM by 82 HiLux »
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82 HiLux

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if it helps, i have a printout from WWW.ALLDATA.COM of the whole first gen toyota wiring harness. i can scan it onto the computer and post it up. its pretty dang helpful
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MaximRecoil [OP]

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thanks. you just go to the junk yard and find the biggest lincoln car you can, or ford thunderbird. as long as its a 90 something and has lots of fancy features in the car (electric windows and locks, digital dash, A/C) it will have the 3G alternator. 130 amps. $21.  2 flopin wires to hook up!

i cant see why anybody would rather have a toyota alternator when the conversion is SO SIMPLE, but thats just my opinion.  ive had really bad luck with my truck and :pokinit:ty toyota alternators. i even broke one in half from wheeling too hard. i absolutely H A T E the :stopit: first gen external regulator charging system. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

its very rewarding to rip all that external regular B S out. i highly reccomend it!!

It sounds like a great idea, except fabricating a bracket is beyond me, and also, with a 20R, I'm already light on horsepower, and I'd be worried about the extra burden of a 130 amp alternator on the engine, as opposed to a 40 or 55 amp alternator. Also, some of the wiring in the harness that runs between the alternator and the external regulator heads off into the rest of the wiring harness. How would you deal with that?
Quote
if it helps, i have a printout from WWW.ALLDATA.COM of the whole first gen toyota wiring harness. i can scan it onto the computer and post it up. its pretty dang helpful
That would be great, thanks.

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ok I am gona try to throw something in here  I had this very same problem  and it kept me running in circles then finaly MARLIN and I spoke on the phone over this.

1st what type of plug do you have on the back of the alti. ?

2nd what type of regulator plug do you have ON THE TRUCK HARNESS SIDE ?

I have gone into great depth on a thred on this site  ALL 4WD alti. that were produced from 1979-1983

what we have learned so far has now been able to come into light as we will all see in this msg.

I recently spoke with Marlin and Jon82toy on the phone about my 1st gen truck not charging well I found out that I have the wrong alti. on there I had the GREEN ALTERNATOR that you will see in this picture here.



this is the plug style for the GREEN ALTERNATOR




These alternators are used on trucks with the years of 1979-to 1983 4x2's these alternators only put out 40 amps

HOWEVER the other alternator that Toyota used in the 1st. Gen trucks had a BLACK ALTERNATOR as seen in this picture here.




This is the plug style for the BLACK ALTERNATOR


These alternators are used on trucks with the years of 1981 to 1983 4x4's these alternators put out 55 amps
BOTH OF THESE ALTERNATORS USE A EXTERNAL REGULATOR THAT GOES WITH THERE COLOR CODED PLUG ON THE BACK OF THE ALTERNATOR

However the both look the same from the front and sides other than the green or black stripe and the plug they are very diffrent and should not be used in any other year trucks that they were made for or else they will not do the job they were intended to do. I have not installed the relay in the harness that has the "open circut" that is keeping the alternator, charge light, and external voltage regulator from working correctly due to the fact that I had to order this from Toyota and it has not come in at this time I will have a part number on this as soon as It comes available to me.


if you need more information pllease feel free to read my thred
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=50416.msg638431#msg638431
IF YOUR LOOKING OUT THE FRONT OF YOUR 4X4 AND YOU CANT SEE THEN JUST TURN ON YOUR WIPERS. BUT THEN THINGS GET ALL MESSED UP LIKE IN LIFE.

WHEN YOU GET TO THE END OF YOUR ROPE JUST THINK THAT ALONG TIME AGO  YOU WERE THE FASTEST LITTLE SWIMMER TO THE EGG

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http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=48342.0




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KYOTA

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yep green alts are 4x2 40amp black are 55amp 4x4

I had an electrical problem this weekend at the hammers, threw money at an alt after an incorrect diagnosis. an easy way to check an if alternator is charging is to contact the back of the alt with a piece of metal (screwdriver etc) if the alt is charging it will create a magnetic field. Mine was not (nor was the new one I replaced it with) and Marlin and I tracked it down to a simple blown fusible link. fusible links are very hard to tell if they're blown because they look like a standard insulated wire even when blown. it was a real head scratcher but THE MAN handled it. Thanks again Marlin  :greengrin:

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i think marlin is the god of toyotas
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On my 79 In got fed up with the stock alt. and regulator and swapped to a gm. Super easy and brighter lights

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Here's what I have in the 79; hope it helps you.






Q? about the 130 amp Ford alternator... how will the old stock wires hold up; risk of fire/melting wires?

Dan
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if I could I would jump on the next plane,bus or train and help ya but if I rode the short bus in school then I KNOW you can figure it out we are here 24/7
 :turtle: :turtle: :turtle:
IF YOUR LOOKING OUT THE FRONT OF YOUR 4X4 AND YOU CANT SEE THEN JUST TURN ON YOUR WIPERS. BUT THEN THINGS GET ALL MESSED UP LIKE IN LIFE.

WHEN YOU GET TO THE END OF YOUR ROPE JUST THINK THAT ALONG TIME AGO  YOU WERE THE FASTEST LITTLE SWIMMER TO THE EGG

08:55:22 PM BeccaLoo24 i like to screw things

$99 scratch and dent drill press has drilled more holes than Ron Jeremy.


http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=48342.0




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jimbo74

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my alternator has a dedicated power wire, that runs straight from the alternator directly to the battery..... it is an 8 gauge wire..... wasnt there in 84, but i added it because my alternator was a higher amp unit from an 85

it is a seperate wire than what is from the harness... came stock on the 2wd 85's
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1980 swap Under Construction

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i was in a mud hole last week and my CHG light came on, turned out my ALT had died
the next day i put in a bran new one all good,.... then like 3 hours later my CHG light came back on, WTF i called the auto parts
store and they said, mabe a bad new ALT so i went out side started my truck up, voltage was 18.5 i went got a new regulator and
then no more problems 

1980 22r swap
hope this mabe helps good luck

wakkjobb

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Same thing happened to me, that regulator was OEM and the alternator was a 'new' re-man. Guess something had to give... I'll be checking the yards for a Ford alternator this weekend; will post pics/write-up if anyone's interested?

79/swapped 85 22R

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most parts houses have marginal alternators for toyota's,

why a ford ???   fwiw  i run my stock 40amp with regulator on the fender and on the pass side of the engine i run a 60 amp celica, its never on till i turn it on

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I believe I have the same setup you do, the cold weather/higher output setup.  I also went through something similar and kept toasting voltage regulators till I fixed the wiring from the alt to regulator.  It should be easy enough to do yourself, or you could keep an eye out for the sub harness on here and ebay.  If you don't fully fix the wiring issue you'll continue to go through alts and regs.
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MaximRecoil [OP]

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Thanks to everyone for the help, and thanks to Maxwe001 for the offer to help over the phone. I took it to a 4WD specialist shop in town that has a good reputation. They put in the more common FEN 40 amp alternator (green band around it; the old one had a black band); made a harness, and used an OEM Toyota regulator with a 6 blade connector (one that I'd bought from the Toyota dealership and tried earlier but it didn't do anything with the 55 amp alternator and existing wiring). This seems to have fixed the problem, at least for now. The voltage is at about 13.9 VDC at the battery when the truck is running, and the truck turns off with the key every time. They had a 1979 Toyota wiring diagram which they used to accomplish this, and they gave me a copy as well. 



I don't think there is a charge light relay in there though, so I don't know what to think about that. Should I be concerned?

1980 swap Under Construction

  • Offline Rock Crawl'n
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when you turn your key to the on position the chg light and oil light should come on ,
if not you will have to fix this cause if all the sudden your regulator goes out for some reason you will never  know
hits... when my regulator went out my light wasent working eather and boom my batt was soooooo hot and bubbles were hissing from it

pritty funny now

hope you fix it the right way

Dr.Maxwe001

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 :thumbs: glad you got that pregnant dog to work
 :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap2: :clap: :clap2: :clap:
IF YOUR LOOKING OUT THE FRONT OF YOUR 4X4 AND YOU CANT SEE THEN JUST TURN ON YOUR WIPERS. BUT THEN THINGS GET ALL MESSED UP LIKE IN LIFE.

WHEN YOU GET TO THE END OF YOUR ROPE JUST THINK THAT ALONG TIME AGO  YOU WERE THE FASTEST LITTLE SWIMMER TO THE EGG

08:55:22 PM BeccaLoo24 i like to screw things

$99 scratch and dent drill press has drilled more holes than Ron Jeremy.


http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=48342.0




[img]http://bo

 
 
 
 
 

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