Author Topic: Rear Axle / Driveline Noise (Read 6145 times)

georgia 4Runner · « **on:** Feb 26, 2009, 06:48:24 PM »

I have a 86 4Runner with 6 inch of suspension lift. About 500 miles ago, I installed a front drive shaft lengthend for the rear (i.e. CV style) with the the cardon joint at the transfer case output. I also rotated my pumpkin to aim at the transfer case output shaft. Otherwise, I have not changed anyhting else in the rearend. I now have a loud noise that is getting worse and is best described as an jet engine sound from tha rear of the vehicle. The noise changes pitch if I let off the gas, but stays at the same level. I have a spare old stlye rear drive shaft that I will swap out and see if it is the culprit. My rear wheel bearings are good. Does anyone esle have any suggestions? I am afraid I will need to drop the pumpkin and check the ring/pinion. Thanks in advance.

4RunnerChevy · « **Reply #1 on:** Feb 26, 2009, 07:07:43 PM »

When you rotated the pumpikin, did your overfill the diff ? If you didn't, you may have starved the pinion bearing of oil. Just a thought.

toyomr285 · « **Reply #2 on:** Feb 26, 2009, 07:08:43 PM »

Maybe the drive shaft that you put in??

georgia 4Runner · « **Reply #3 on:** Feb 28, 2009, 11:20:06 AM »

Thanks.

I beleive I had enough fluid. I placed the rear of the 4runner up in the air about 3' higher then the front and topped it off. Let me know if I should have placed more.

I plan to remove the rear driveshaft and do a road test running off the front to see if the noise goes away. Thus isolating my problem. If this doesn't work, I will put a spare, but original style drivesahft back in a road test it.
Thanks again for the help.

4RunnerChevy · « **Reply #4 on:** Feb 28, 2009, 12:38:54 PM »

I put the spare on first and try it. Driving without the rear driveshaft won't eliminate a rear differential problem. With no load, you will be on the coast side of the gear.

georgia 4Runner · « **Reply #5 on:** Feb 28, 2009, 02:55:35 PM »

Good point. The sound went away with the rear driveshaft out. Unfortunatly, I had forgottetn the new CV style had a different bolt pattern (smaller I think) than the standard rear drive shaft configuration where it attaches to the TC. I will have to build up another rear drive shaft (which I need to do anyway for a trail spare). Then I will install it and see.

I rechecked my angles and the center of the rear pumpkin flange points to within 1 inch of the center of the TC flange (1 inch low in fact.) Is that enouhg out to make a difference? The rear drive shaft I had was tight, U-joits seemed good and had grease.

Finally, I am getting a little over 3 inches of total driveshaft travel with 1 inch insertion when expanded. Is an inch enough when expanded? The reason I ask is that the driveshaft I have has only 1.3 inches of comprssion and 2 inches of expansion. I think I need to shorten it ito get the expansion and compreasion the same.

Thanks again for all your help.

georgia 4Runner · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 01, 2009, 07:27:24 AM »

While the driveshaft was out, I checked the feel of the rear differential by turning the pinion and it felt rachety or like there was a sand papery feel. I checked my front diff and it was fairly smooth. Hence, I took out the pumpkin. The backlash was off (0.0015) and there is a slight repetitive indention or divot on the coast side of the teeth. I tried to get a wear pattern, but was difficult.

With a Detroit locker, is this rachety feeling correct? Or have I caught the R/P prior to self distructing? Any reason for the divot on the coast side?

Thanks again.

4RunnerChevy · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 01, 2009, 07:42:06 AM »

Take a pic of the 3rd and the divot. I don't believe the locker should feel that way. Pull the pinion, and check the bearings, cause you gotta pull it apart anyway. 0.0015 is not that far off.

georgia 4Runner · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 01, 2009, 02:27:10 PM »

I can not get my pic small enough to attach. I will try tomorrow. Basically, the divot runs from the top innner side of the tooth down at a 45 degree angle to almost the root. It is on all the teeth. Thanks again.

THK Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 01, 2009, 02:31:11 PM »

host it on www.imageshack.us or upload it on www.photobucket and get the "direct code"

or send it to my email (toyrunner.3wm@hotmail.com) and ill host it for ya.

georgia 4Runner · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 02, 2009, 07:04:39 PM »

Thanks. I sent the photo to you via the email address. I also showed the third member to a buddy today and he said something is amiss with the pinion bearings. They do not rotate freely. He said almost like I had overtightened the bearings. However, when I set this up 5 years ago I know it was right so I am confused. I have the ring and carrier off and was stopped by not having the right puller for the front pinion bearing to remove and look at it as well as the rear pinion bearing. Even without the pressure from the companion flange nut, the bearings do not feel optimum.

The ring has the gouges, but they can't be more than 0.001 -0.002 deep. Do you think this would be OK to continue using to save money? I mainly use it off road - the consummate trailer queen. I was only shaking out the driveline issues and putting mileage on the motor as I had just swapped over to EFI and had headwork, replaced rings type engine rebuild.

Thanks again for the help.

4RunnerChevy · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 02, 2009, 07:08:16 PM »

Just curious, is it a crush sleeve setup ?

georgia 4Runner · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 02, 2009, 07:13:46 PM »

Yes. Is that an issue?

4RunnerChevy · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 02, 2009, 07:52:32 PM »

Crush sleeves have been know to fail. Get the right puller and let us know. Have you had any impact the the flange, or driveshaft ? Sometimes that may impact the crush sleeve or bearings.

THK Matt · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 02, 2009, 09:15:21 PM »

Here is your picture as promised

georgia 4Runner · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 03, 2009, 07:33:30 PM »

I have all the parts apart now. The front pinion bearing race has pitting and some of the rollers have a few very small gouges. It feels rough when you spin it so that is definitely at least part of the problem. The inner pinion bearing race has some pits but much less and still feels good. The crush sleeve appears to me to be normal, but I am going to show a buddy tomorrow as I have definitely hit the companion flange and lower pumpkin before. Once so bad I had to replace the dust shield. This is one of the reasons I wanted to rotate the pinion up. May have been my undoing though. Are the pits in th epinion bearing race caused by lack of lubrication or did I have trash floating around or maybe a bad setup to begin with? The carrier bearings bearing seemed fine to me though.

Should I go to a solid spacer in lieu of crush sleeve when I put it back together?
Thanks again.

THK Matt · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 03, 2009, 09:36:09 PM »

definately switch to a solid spacer...

4RunnerChevy · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 05:50:44 AM »

Quote from: ThatHOKid on Mar 03, 2009, 09:36:09 PM

definately switch to a solid spacer...

x2

I would also replace both pinion bearings. Solid spacers can be harder to set up, so be patient.

georgia 4Runner · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 08:48:11 AM »

Thanks again. I found out one other interesting issue. The back pinion bearing was not flush to the pinion base. Not sure how this happened or if I did it when I removed he front pinion bearing. The crush sleeve looked normal to me. I plan to replace both pinion bearings as you suggested with a spacer instead of the crush sleeve. Any thoughts on where to get the spacers?.

THK Matt · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 11:38:45 AM »

MC sells them.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/differential/parts/solid-pinion-spacer-kit

4RunnerChevy · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 05:39:50 PM »

Quote from: ThatHOKid on Mar 04, 2009, 11:38:45 AM

MC sells them.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/differential/parts/solid-pinion-spacer-kit

x2 MC. Get a some shims too just in case you need them.

THK Matt · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 06:38:32 PM »

Quote from: 4runnerchevy on Mar 04, 2009, 05:39:50 PM

x2 MC. Get a some shims too just in case you need them.

they come with shim packs.

pumkin toy · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 06:46:34 PM »

Quote from: ThatHOKid on Mar 04, 2009, 06:38:32 PM

they come with shim packs.

it might be a good idea to get another pack. i have setup alot of toyota gears with solid spacer and sometimes they take quite a few shims to get the pinion bearing preload correct

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