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No chill pill needed.. Im not fired up.. But I respond in that way, because many people actually think that way.
Black Diamond.. we need to stick to false teachings of the mormon church right now.. not the ones of the SDA denomination
I just went back and read this.. I cant believe I missed this statement.. "...but can't provide a compelling argument from the Bible". You have to be kidding me... someone do a search.. we have already talked about this.. sheesh... Just because you dont like it doesnt mean the evidence isnt there... wow.
I have been gone for a few days so I have some catching up to do... Look at Hebrews Chapter 7 - Its confirms Christ as the only high priest after the order of Melchezidek... specially verse 24: it says he has an unchangeable priesthood.. look up the word unchangeable in the greek.. it actually means untransferable, and inviolate.. meaning no one else can have it.. if you want me to explain this more let me know..
Baptism for the dead is just plain nutty... there is no scripture reference for this, and the one that mormons think works, is totally taken out of context... want me to expound on this too... sheesh!!!!!!!
Greek definition??Last i checked the bible was written in Latin, but was originally written in ancient Hebrew and also a hybrid Egyptian/Hebrew writing
Ironically, I would say the same thing (just because you think it is doesn't make it true and the majority is often wrong ) which is why we don't discuss it anymore, it's pointless at this point. I'll say it one more time...The Catholic church claims the change from Saturday to Sunday as their own and they did it prior to any other denomination being formed. Most of the organized denominations branched off over time because they disagreed with one or more of the Catholic beliefs, but nobody seemed to disagree with the change of the Sabbath. It was taken for granted. The early members of the SDA church were actually all Sunday believers from various denominations that joined together to study the Bible.The reason I brought the subject up again is because the Mormons keep Sunday in a similar way to Adventist's which indicated a belief in the 4th Commandment. I don't think the "do no work" part of the Commandment is found anywhere else?
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)Even Jesus Christ Himself was baptized--- (Matthew 3:13–17). 13-Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.14-But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?15-And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.16-And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:17-And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? (1 Corinthians 15:29)The dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God - So did Jairus's daughter, the widow's son, Lazarus. (John 5:25) 1 Peter 4:6 For to this end was the gospel preached - Ever since it was given to Adam. To them that are now dead - In their several generations. That they might be judged - That though they were judged. In the flesh according to the manner of men - With rash, unrighteous judgment. They might live according to the will and word of God, in the Spirit; the soul renewed after his image.
It is apparent that if God rewards everyone according to the deeds done in the body, the term heaven as intended for man's eternal home must include more kingdoms than one. In speaking of man in his resurrected state, Paul tells of glories like the sun, the moon, and the stars (1 Cor. 15:39-41). He also speaks of the "third heaven" (2 Cor. 12:2). Jesus spoke of "many mansions" or kingdoms (John 14:2). Latter day revelation confirms the teaching of the Bible on these matters and verifies that there are three general categories or glories to which the members of the human family will be assigned in the judgement following their resurection from the grave. These are known as Celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdoms of which the sun, moon, and stars are spoken of as being typical. (D&C 76; 88: 20-32; 131:1-4). In addition to the degrees of glory, there is a place of no glory, called perdition, reserved for those who commit the unpardonable sin.
The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. yet you believe in multiple gods and that you will one day be one.. you believe that god was once as you are now.. a man.. you believe jesus had multiple wives, is the brother of lucifer, is a god, but not god in the flesh... I could go on and on... you use the same terminology as christians yet carrying different definitions that are not christian in any way!2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. yet you believe this atonement was in the garden and not on the cross...4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. You believe this is a formula for salvation when it is not according to the bible.5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. I believe that God calls people, but making the laying on of hands a requirement is not essential, especially with a priesthood you cant possibly posses.6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. Where are your pastors... why are your deacons 12 year old boys when its contrary to the bible? Where is the apostolic power that existed in the early church? Why is there a prophet when the bible says its been done away with?7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. You believe it to be the word of God until someone says something you dont agree with then it was translated incorrectly. yet you cant show where it has been incorrectly translated... and you fail to mention that the book of mormon has over 4000 changes, and not just because of punctuation and spelling!9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. You believe that you are the new Israel, which is called replacement theology which is false, and there is no evidence or scripture reference of the new jerusalem being here in america... as much as we like to think america is all that.. its not the focus of this world.11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. Then seek after truth!Joseph Smith
BeccaLoo24 – i can toss grown men.... so dont doubt me
First item: all scripture you reference has to do with baptism... I think baptism is a form of obedience.. not required for salvation.. its a result of salvation. We can go more into this if you want, but lets stick to Baptism of the dead...
Any specific reason you think it is not required? Why would the son of God walk that great distance to be baptized by John the Baptist? Why would he make sure it was a descendant of Aaron?
Thats weird, because none of my explanations had anything to do with the catholic church?
... like blackdiamond mentioned.. the thief on the cross.. how could he be in heaven with Jesus that day if he didn't have a chance to get baptized...
1. Our sky is the 1st heaven... you can find several references of this if you just look... 2. The space past our sky that we see is the 2nd heaven.... 3. The area beyond our space/ solar system which no man can see is the 3rd heaven...
This definately qualifies as off topic, but it's also interesting.I don't remember if you're a member of any particular denomination so you may not know for sure either, but I would be willing to bet that none of the mainstream Christian churches that have published beliefs deal with Sunday being the day of worship. This is because the Lord's Day was taken for granted during the reformation when various groups were splitting from the Catholic church. The result is that people are defending Sunday as the day of worship because it is what they have always believed. Very few have every questioned the belief and learned about the actual histroy. The Roman Catholic changed the day and has stated that fact in more than one place. The belief was "borrowed" during the reformation. I wouldn't expect you to support your belief by referencing Catholic doctrine, but it is still where the belief originated and not from someone searching scripture and realizing that Sunday was the day.Now I have to read your comments on the Mormon beliefs, you're "killing me" with the shotgun replies.
Be careful quoting me since I am a false teacher in your view. More importantly, please quote me correctly (I'm being a little picky here I realize). I very specifically left out any reference to WHEN the thief would be in heaven with Jesus because I knew it would open another can of worms. After His resurrection on Sunday, Jesus, himself, said that he had not yet ascended to His Father. This means that he had not been to heaven and therefore could not have been in heaven with the thief on Friday. Also, it wasn't uncommon for people that were crucified to remain alive for a period of time IF they were removed from the cross. This is why their legs were broken, they didn't want them to be able to run away before they died. There is a fair chance that the thief wouldn't have died on Friday unless someone killed him and the Bible only records his legs being broken (I think my memory is correct on this but I don't have the ability right now to verify). Ironically, the three were removed from the cross just prior to the Sabbath, or sundown, and technically, Jesus' reference to "today" would have required the thief to die on Friday before sundown as that marks the beginning of another day (from evening until morning is the first day). The translation is ok, but the punctuation, that is not part of the original language, is not correct in my belief.
I'll agree with this.I'll also refrain from providing my belief on the City of Jerusalem and who Israel refers to.
Very quickly here... I hope you arent implying that Israel is no longer referring to the jews and that somehow the SDA are the new Israel... because any type of replacement theology is false theology.
I give you props Chim, you are strong in what you believe in. And will go to all lengths to prove any other wrong. So what if i was a Jew and only studied the laws of Moses and the old testament, would i go to hell because I am still waiting for a messiah? My point is anyone can counter act what all others say to make it in line with what they believe. Like you stated above, some versus say get baptized others dont, so you could make an argument either way. It becomes a pissing match pretty much
No one knows all that happened between Friday and sunday. So I dont like to assume... but it almost sounds like you are calling Jesus a liar? They didn't break their legs so they couldn't run off! Thats the first time I have ever heard that... The reason they broke their legs was to make sure they died because those on the cross would push themselves up in order to get a breath... if they couldn't push themselves up because of broken legs then they would suffocate fairly quickly.. and they had to make sure they were going to be dead before the sabbath... they didn't break the legs of Jesus because he was already dead... the just pierced him to confirm the death.I dont call you a false teacher until you start throwing out the private doctrines of the SDA faith which are unbiblical.
The basic translation would be, "I say to you today that you will be with me in paradise."It has been commonly written, "I say to you, today that you will be with me in paradise," but "I say to you today, that you will be with me in paradise," is also a correct way to place the comma. Did you miss the part where Jesus said that he had NOT gone to His Father? He said that he had not gone to heaven until the disciples watched him go.
In addition to the degrees of glory, there is a place of no glory, called perdition, reserved for those who commit the unpardonable sin.