Topic: Mormons.....

[KDXSR5]

Got another question.

What do Mormons believe happens after death? Is it different from the you are judged and sent to Heaven or Hell? I remember hearing something about different levels of Heaven, but I don't remember if it was about Mormons or not.

[blackdiamond]

Got another question.

What do Mormons believe happens after death? Is it different from the you are judged and sent to Heaven or Hell? I remember hearing something about different levels of Heaven, but I don't remember if it was about Mormons or not.

I believe that everyone goes to heaven, but there are multiple levels of heaven.  I've heard that not all Mormons are eligible for tier 1 heaven?  This is one of the beliefs that cannot be support in any form with the Bible, I don't think they even try.

[Toymin8r]

A good Mormon story...

My boss, like a lot of my management is a Mormon.  I also have a clueless moron (word chosen to add confusion) coworker that made an absolute fool himself talking about Mormons in front of the boss.  Keep in mind that the moron sat in a cube for several years where his view was of the Mormon's cube and somehow missed, over a multiple year timeframe, that he was Mormon.  On day I get caught with my section lead, the Mormon boss and the moron in a "water cooler" conversation where the moron goes off on Mormons and even gets to some belief about a great giant lizard (I have no idea where this came from).  Needless to say it was entertaining to listen to but also uncomfortable since everyone in the conversation but the moron new the boss was Mormon.  I figured that I should have some fun afterwords so I put a note on morons computer that simply that that the boss was LDS.  Another coworker that just overheard the conversation heard the moron apologizing the next day saying that God had told him that the boss was Mormon.

Couldn't you have used someother word like idiot or dimwhit instead of moron?   I was stumbleing all over the place trying to decifer mormon and moron. 

[COToy91 [OP]]

Got another question.

What do Mormons believe happens after death? Is it different from the you are judged and sent to Heaven or Hell? I remember hearing something about different levels of Heaven, but I don't remember if it was about Mormons or not.

Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected. After we are resurrected, we will stand before the Lord to be judged according to our desires and actions. Each of us will accordingly receive an eternal dwelling place in a specific kingdom of glory. The Lord taught this principle when He said, "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2).
 There are three kingdoms of glory: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. The glory we inherit will depend on the depth of our conversion, expressed by our obedience to the Lord's commandments. It will depend on the manner in which we have "received the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:51; see also D&C 76:74, 79, 101).

Celestial Kingdom

The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose.

The celestial kingdom is the place prepared for those who have "received the testimony of Jesus" and been "made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood" (D&C 76:51, 69). To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins. For a detailed explanation of those who will inherit celestial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:50–70; 76:92–96.

In January 1836 the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation that expanded his understanding of the requirements to inherit celestial glory. The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the celestial kingdom. He marveled when he saw his older brother Alvin there, even though Alvin had died before receiving the ordinance of baptism. (See D&C 137:1–6.) Then the voice of the Lord came to the Prophet Joseph:

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; "Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

"For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts" (D&C 137:7–9).

Commenting on this revelation, the Prophet Joseph said, "I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven" (D&C 137:10).

From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

Terrestrial Kingdom

Those who inherit terrestrial glory will "receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun" (D&C 76:77–78). Generally speaking, individuals in the terrestrial kingdom will be honorable people "who were blinded by the craftiness of men" (D&C 76:75). This group will include members of the Church who were "not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:79). It will also include those who rejected the opportunity to receive the gospel in mortality but who later received it in the postmortal spirit world (see D&C 76:73–74). To learn more about those who will inherit terrestrial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants D&C 76:71–80, 91, 97.

Telestial Kingdom

Telestial glory will be reserved for individuals who "received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:82). These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed from spirit prison, which is sometimes called hell (see D&C 76:84, D&C 76:106). A detailed explanation of those who will inherit telestial glory is found in Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–90, 98–106, 109–112.

Perdition

Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called "the sons of perdition" and will have to "abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory" (D&C 76:32; 88:24). This will be the state of "those who know [God's] power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy [God's] power" (D&C 76:31; see also D&C 76:30, 32–49).

[COToy91 [OP]]

Got another question.

What do Mormons believe happens after death? Is it different from the you are judged and sent to Heaven or Hell? I remember hearing something about different levels of Heaven, but I don't remember if it was about Mormons or not.

Premortal Life

Before we were born on the earth, we lived in the presence of our Heavenly Father as one of His spirit children. In this premortal existence, we attended a council with Heavenly Father's other spirit children. At that council, Heavenly Father presented His great plan of happiness (see Abraham 3:22–26).

In harmony with the plan of happiness, the premortal Jesus Christ, the Firstborn Son of the Father in the spirit, covenanted to be the Savior (see Moses 4:2; Abraham 3:27). Those who followed Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ were permitted to come to the earth to experience mortality and progress toward eternal life. Lucifer, another spirit son of God, rebelled against the plan and "sought to destroy the agency of man" (Moses 4:3). He became Satan, and he and his followers were cast out of heaven and denied the privileges of receiving a physical body and experiencing mortality (see Moses 4:4; Abraham 3:27–28).

Throughout our premortal lives, we developed our identity and increased our spiritual capabilities. Blessed with the gift of agency, we made important decisions, such as the decision to follow Heavenly Father's plan. These decisions affected our life then and now. We grew in intelligence and learned to love the truth, and we prepared to come to the earth, where we could continue to progress.

Mortal Life

We are now experiencing mortal life. Our spirits are united with our bodies, giving us opportunities to grow and develop in ways that were not possible in premortal life. This part of our existence is a time of learning in which we can prove ourselves, choose to come unto Christ, and prepare to be worthy of eternal life. It is also a time when we can help others find the truth and gain a testimony of the plan of salvation.

Life after Death

When we die, our spirits will enter the spirit world and await the resurrection. At the time of the resurrection, our spirit and body will reunite, and we will be judged and received into a kingdom of glory. The glory we inherit will depend on the depth of our conversion and our obedience to the Lord's commandments (see Kingdoms of Glory). It will depend on the manner in which we have "received the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:51; see also D&C 76:74, 79, 101).

Blessings through Knowledge of the Plan

A testimony of the plan of salvation can give us hope and purpose as we wrestle with the challenges of life. We can find reassurance in the knowledge that we are children of God and that we lived in His presence before being born on the earth. We can find meaning in our present life, knowing that our actions during mortality influence our eternal destiny. With this knowledge, we can base important decisions on eternal truths rather than on the changing circumstances of life. We can continually improve our relationships with family members, rejoicing in the promise that our families can be eternal. We can find joy in our testimonies of the Atonement and the Lord's commandments, ordinances, covenants, and doctrines, knowing that "he who doeth the works of righteousness shall receive his reward, even peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come" (D&C 59:23).

[red]

bd

  somebody's taking it too literally    I vaguely remember that episode..

:devil: always literal! i hear about that episode all the time, cracks me up.

[SLIVER]

Great thread, and good questions. My family and myself are Mormon as well. With that being said, There are those members of my church that act as if they are better than other people solely because they are mormon. Nothing pisses me off more, and I believe that this behavior is very wrong. It is these type of people who give the Mormon religion a bad name. I know many people of different religions who are awesome people and who are as faithfull or even more faithfull to there religion than I am to mine. So the take home message is that if a Mormon rubs you the wrong way, don't discount all Mormons. You probablly just had a run in with one of these types.

Infernal, you need to realize that the missionaries that stood on your lawn were most likely from a different part of the country/world than where they were called on their mission. They may have not realized that in Cali or where ever you are from, it is disrespectful to stand on somebody elses grass.
You should have asked them to provide some service to you and mow your lawn. Ha Ha

))--SLIVER-->

[Rocksurfer]

I can see Infernal now chasing them down the street with his rake yelling, "You kids stay off my grass!"

[COToy91 [OP]]

Great thread, and good questions. My family and myself are Mormon as well. With that being said, There are those members of my church that act as if they are better than other people solely because they are mormon. Nothing pisses me off more, and I believe that this behavior is very wrong. It is these type of people who give the Mormon religion a bad name. I know many people of different religions who are awesome people and who are as faithfull or even more faithfull to there religion than I am to mine. So the take home message is that if a Mormon rubs you the wrong way, don't discount all Mormons. You probablly just had a run in with one of these types.

Infernal, you need to realize that the missionaries that stood on your lawn were most likely from a different part of the country/world than where they were called on their mission. They may have not realized that in Cali or where ever you are from, it is disrespectful to stand on somebody elses grass.
You should have asked them to provide some service to you and mow your lawn. Ha Ha

))--SLIVER-->

I agree fully and they would have if he asked lol

[ToYocRawleR]

I grew up mormon, most of my family is mormon and all i can say is you're either dedicated or you're not.  I try not to be hypocritical so i kinda steered away from church.  It can be a good thing though, some of the most successful people i have met are mormon, along with some of the most caring and helpful.  Its like this with any religion, ethnicity, anything.

[blackdiamond]

There are two posts below that explain the Mormon beliefs in the spirit world and our final rewards, but every reference used to support them is something other than the Bible.  Christians may disagree on the interpretation of scripture, but the Bible is the only basis for any Christian discussion.  Mormons claim to be Christian, but when the missionaries have come to my door they have never had a Bible in hand.  It's all about the Book of Mormon and I would argue that this would make you J. Smithites or B. Youngites.  I believe that the reason many people consider Mormonism a cult, and seperate from Christianity, is a direct result of the fact that the general public has, in general, never had a Mormon ever show them anything from the Bible.

Supporting your beliefs from the Bible is important because the Bible is the basis for Christianity.  Anyone that puts another book above the Bible is suspect, as a Christian, in my mind.  I believe many Christians can show you where the Bible doesn't support, or even contradicts, the Mormon teachings.  The Bible teaches that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow so it is required that the Book of Mormon agree with the Bible.

 

An example is that Mormons provide the Book of Mormon to hotels and the JWs are generally responsible if a Bible is found.

[COToy91 [OP]]

There are two posts below that explain the Mormon beliefs in the spirit world and our final rewards, but every reference used to support them is something other than the Bible.  Christians may disagree on the interpretation of scripture, but the Bible is the only basis for any Christian discussion.  Mormons claim to be Christian, but when the missionaries have come to my door they have never had a Bible in hand.  It's all about the Book of Mormon and I would argue that this would make you J. Smithites or B. Youngites.  I believe that the reason many people consider Mormonism a cult, and seperate from Christianity, is a direct result of the fact that the general public has, in general, never had a Mormon ever show them anything from the Bible.

Supporting your beliefs from the Bible is important because the Bible is the basis for Christianity.  Anyone that puts another book above the Bible is suspect, as a Christian, in my mind.  I believe many Christians can show you where the Bible doesn't support, or even contradicts, the Mormon teachings.  The Bible teaches that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow so it is required that the Book of Mormon agree with the Bible.

 

An example is that Mormons provide the Book of Mormon to hotels and the JWs are generally responsible if a Bible is found.

Abraham 3:22–26;Moses 4:3; Moses 4:4; Abraham 3:27–28; John 14:2

^all from the bible and all having to do with what i posted about the different kingdoms and a pre mortal life. The BOM is another testament of Jesus Christ and stories from one of the twelve tribes of Israel that was scattered here just prior to Jerusalem being destroyed around 600 BC, by the Babylonians. It also speaks about after the resurrection of Christ and his visit to America.

The main difference between us and other churches is that we believe that the priesthood, the keys of authority and a living revelatory prophet exist through the LDS church today. Hence why we have sections like Doctrine and Covenants which are more modern revelation.

In reality the bible is two books old and new; laws of Moses, teachings of Jesus. Most Christians would follow the laws of Jesus and his more modern revelation of the ten commandments and other teachings. Stoning a women for committing adultery was absurd to him, hence he who is without sin casteth the first stone...

The BOM to me along with the Pearl of Great Price are more books in the teaching of God through Prophets of old just like the bible. They do not contradict the bible but instead they supplement and give more modern context to some things written thousands of years ago.

I grew up as a Catholic and spent that whole time studying the Bible, I can pull stuff from it all day. I can even show you parallels between it and the Book of Mormon.

Supporting your beliefs from the Bible is important because the Bible is the basis for Christianity.  Anyone that puts another book above the Bible is suspect, as a Christian, in my mind.  I believe many Christians can show you where the Bible doesn't support, or even contradicts, the Mormon teachings.  The Bible teaches that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow so it is required that the Book of Mormon agree with the Bible.

We do not put the BOM over the Bible, most people just dont have a BOM main reason why we give them out. There are also missionary KJV Bibles that if you ask any missionary they can get one for you. Jews will argue that Jesus was the messiah, protestants and Catholics  will argue that his is the savior, Mormons would argue that he is the savior and the church of god has been restored today, atheists would argue the existence of anything.

The point is everyone will argue what they believe until they are blue in the face. I started this thread not to argue whats is right vs what is wrong. I did it purely to clear up what false things are thought about us and to inform of what our actual beliefs are.

You PM was very interesting btw

[blackdiamond]

Abraham 3:22–26;Moses 4:3; Moses 4:4; Abraham 3:27–28; John 14:2

^all from the bible and all having to do with what i posted about the different kingdoms and a pre mortal life.

Between Genesis and Revelation I know where John is, but Abraham and Moses must be in a non-standard version of the Bible?  I don't think I've ever seen them included in any version that is commonly used.

 

With your Catholic background you should have a very different perspective on religion that most. 

[iNfErNaL]

Infernal, you need to realize that the missionaries that stood on your lawn were most likely from a different part of the country/world than where they were called on their mission. They may have not realized that in Cali or where ever you are from, it is disrespectful to stand on somebody elses grass.
You should have asked them to provide some service to you and mow your lawn. Ha Ha

))--SLIVER-->

    , well it really wasn't a big deal , I just found it a bit rude . Does that make me believe ALL Mormons are that way ?  Absolutely not , as I mentioned earlier , I have a few Aunts,Uncles and alot of Cousins who are Mormon . I have respect for all religion , I myself am Catholic . What I don't like (as previously mentioned) is when people try to push religion down others' throats . I believe going door to door is wrong , again ,that's just my opinion and anytime someone has came to my door to talk about religion , I kindly tell them I don't have the time , 99% of the time thay have been really nice and just left .
'

[COToy91 [OP]]

Between Genesis and Revelation I know where John is, but Abraham and Moses must be in a non-standard version of the Bible?  I don't think I've ever seen them included in any version that is commonly used.

 

With your Catholic background you should have a very different perspective on religion that most. 

My apologies, John is in Most King James Versions Bibles
    * Matthew
    * Mark
    * Luke
    * John
    * Acts
    * Romans
    * 1 Corinthians
    * 2 Corinthians
    * Galatians

   

    * Ephesians
    * Philippians
    * Colossians
    * 1 Thessalonians
    * 2 Thessalonians
    * 1 Timothy
    * 2 Timothy
    * Titus
    * Philemon

   

    * Hebrews
    * James
    * 1 Peter
    * 2 Peter
    * 1 John
    * 2 John
    * 3 John
    * Jude
    * Revelation


Yeah I realized that Catholicism was a joke

[iNfErNaL]

I can see Infernal now chasing them down the street with his rake yelling, "You kids stay off my grass!"

   

[BLACKDOG]

Personally, I consider myself a non denominational Christian.  I don't really attach myself to any particular "christian" group, I've gone to non denominational, baptist, and southern baptist churches my entire life.  I've had good friends who were mormon, jehovah's witness, atheist, agnostic, catholic, and bahai (sp).  Personally, I don't care what you believe, as long as you don't try to shove it down my throat.  I've had discussions with both mormon and JW missionaries that tried to convince me that if I'm not mormon or JW, I'm going to hell. 

In my experience with the missionaries, they are pushy, overbearing, and inconsiderate of both my property and my time.  Just a few months ago I had  JW missionary come talk to me when I was on a ladder painting my house, and he felt it was his place to lean on my ford, leaving a nice gouge from his belt or something when I finally told him to get off my property (I'm painting, and was very polite with him when I told him several times I wasn't interested, was already a christian, and that I was sorry but I really needed to get this done.)  I've had mormon missionaries criticize the cleanliness of my garage (in the middle of a project), the condition of my yard  (busy working on the house, dead when when I bought the place), and the amount of beer bottles and cans I had in my recycling bins (just got back from a wheeling trip (easily half weren't even beer myself or my buddys drank, but cans and bottles I'd picked up). 

I'm met a few that were cool, but for the most part I'd rather have streetwalkers for Obama come to my door than missionaries, at least they leave me alone after I've told them I already voted for the other guy  

On that note, I've got no problem with most mormons and JW, its the ones like mentioned above that I don't like, and unfortunately, I think that is how they come across to a lot of people.  I think Christians and all offshoots should work together politically, because even though beliefs may be different, core values remain the same among many faiths.  Unfortunately, there's to much hypocrisy on all sides about interacting with other people to do that, although I can always hope.


I do have a question, for any of the mormons on here that have done or are going to do a mission.  Do you receive any training on approaching people and interacting with them, like using sidewalks and driveways, not cutting across grass, not riding bikes on sidewalks, etc.?  Or does the church mainly teach you on the religious type stuff?  Just curious because I know a lot of door to door salespeople and paid political streetwalkers oftentimes receive extensive ettiquette training prior to being released to the streets.

[COToy91 [OP]]

 

I do have a question, for any of the mormons on here that have done or are going to do a mission.  Do you receive any training on approaching people and interacting with them, like using sidewalks and driveways, not cutting across grass, not riding bikes on sidewalks, etc.?  Or does the church mainly teach you on the religious type stuff?  Just curious because I know a lot of door to door salespeople and paid political streetwalkers oftentimes receive extensive ettiquette training prior to being released to the streets.

Lots of training http://www.mtc.byu.edu/themtc.htm

They are taught more than just how to be a missionary, from how to act in a foreign country to watching you companion back the mission car out of a spot to reduce accidents and insurance rates lol

[iNfErNaL]

  I don't know what this means but it is funny . If it is offensive , I will gladly remove it  , I found it on Google searching pictures of Eazy-E believe it or not .

[COToy91 [OP]]

  I don't know what this means but it is funny . If it is offensive , I will gladly remove it  , I found it on Google searching pictures of Eazy-E believe it or not .

I cant not tell you how hard i laughed at that

[chim]

havent we already hashed out the mormon thing? Last time this happened I posted a bunch of stuff, and the mormons ran off and never came back..

[BLACKDOG]

havent we already hashed out the mormon thing? Last time this happened I posted a bunch of stuff, and the mormons ran off and never came back..

New Mormons, new topic  

That was definitely interesting reading.  Wasn't that like a year ago, 2 years ago that you posted it?

[chim]

COToy91... you talk about your priesthood, but crazy thing is that the Bible actually says you dont have it.. how would you reconcile that?

[chim]

New Mormons, new topic  

That was definitely interestin greading.  Wasn't that like a year ago, 2 years ago that you posted it?

That was a while ago.. I mean its cool it was brought up again.. its always a fun topic!

[COToy91 [OP]]

COToy91... you talk about your priesthood, but crazy thing is that the Bible actually says you dont have it.. how would you reconcile that?

Um okay, well i doubt i am running off. I have been on this site for a while. The intention of this thread is not to pull the you are wrong or right arguments out. I started this to set things straight on what I and other Mormons believe.

On another note though, where in the scriptures does it say that, I would love to read up on it.

If you are here to bash though, it is not appreciated and from the looks of your sig you already have a bias. I will gladly talk to you and have no issues. No bashing though, just like it says in the first post

[BLACKDOG]

Um okay, well i doubt i am running off. I have been on this site for a while. The intention of this thread is not to pull the you are wrong or right arguments out. I started this to set things straight on what I and other Mormons believe.

Ah, but thats where the whole religion debate gets interesting.  In fact, thats what makes it fun if you (not specifically you, but in general people) can hang.  Chim was once a Mormon, and is no longer one, but a Christian.  he is very knowledgable in both Mormon and typical Christian doctrine, typical Christian doctrine being using the Bible only. 


That statement wasn't to bring up whether Mormons are truly Christian or not, just to give you a little back ground.

[Rocksurfer]

Well I was born in a Roman Catholic home, and was baptized as such. I later in my young life believed that we would not be thrown into this world without a flow of information/direction from God on current issues. If not we would all still be wearing sheets and sandals for clothes. So I searched (didn't have to look hard) and found that there is a religion that believed they did still communicate with God but only through one person (the profit) of that church. So with the guidance of my brother who went to BYU I learned about the religion that he got into while there. So in 1977 I was baptized in Orem, UT by him and due to being in the Army was unable to continue practicing. Now later in life I feel that almost all organized religion is all about the money. Give us your money no matter what, no matter how much hardship it may cause you. So since money is considered the root of all evil to me that make organized religions evil, do you get where I'm going here?

Probably not so I'll explain. Since I don't have a lot of money I don't have evil within me and most churches are loaded, who is truly the evil one? I treat everyone the same without regard to any beliefs or lifestyles and most churches will tell you that if you are not in theirs you won't go to heaven or some stupid thing like that. I also have in my life gone to different religion's churches with friends that attend them and have some insight on them from discussing them with friends. From Coptic, to Muslim, to Judaism and others I have been around people that have different beliefs, even Harri Krishna and Scientology and some people believe some strange stuff within their religion. What it boils down to for me is I am very secure in my standing with God, Budda, or whoever it turns out to be in that I've lead a good life and yes made some mistakes but if God is all forgiving I'm safe since he'll forgive my mistakes.

[Hammerhead]

You believe He spoke to the prophets of old.  We believe He still does...

And not JUST to PROPHETS.

My point is this.  Any and every man can have his own direction and guidance from our Heavenly Father.  Beginning with the General Epistle of James chapter 1 verse 5 it says:
"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

[COToy91 [OP]]

 Just so chim doesnt have to repeat himself again......

We definitly wrestle against darkness and powers that we cannot see. I was Mormon for 10 years and a temple attending Mormon for for  3 of those. We did a lot of things that are contrary to the Bible, and it wasnt till a friend who was Christian started asking about my faith that I really started to study Mormon doctrine.. sure I knew the basics.. I knew what they wanted me to know. BUt there was just too many errors.. too many contradictions.. Over the course of a year I realized that Mormonism was false and left the church. Thats when my wife decided to leave me. Without a priesthood leader to call her forth from the grave she wouldnt reach Godhood.. and obviously i was an apostate now. I still struggle with the fact that my ex wife is re-married and my two kids have a stepdad now.. but God gives me the grace to continue..  I could never go back to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints knowing what I know now. Now im a bible believing Christian who goes to a non-denominational church (Calvary Chapel) and have a relationship with Christ that I never had before. I dont hate mormons..  I dont like their doctrine..  I have spoken to many missionaries and have debated the theology many times, and one thing is for sure.. Christianity will hold!

As far as testing a prophet there are two simple tests that the Bible outlines.. One in Deut: 13 and the other in chapter 18. Basically if one prophecy doesnt come true then there is no light in the person and they are a false prophet.. To be a SDA is to follow the teachings of E.G.W. and its just the same as to be a Mormon you follow the teachings or Joseph Smith.. or even Brigham Young who came later... The onle "scripture" i have read cover to cover is the Bible.. But dont discount the internet for info just because its the internet. Many scholarly people have made it their lifes work to inform people..  we just need to check the references and make sure its right.. like the bible says, test all things!As a mormon reading lots of their material I never found any contradictions either..  until the Lord gave me sight from spiritual blindness and showed me the errors...  but please dont get me wrong.. im not saying you are spiritually blind..  One thing i know for sure is that only God knows our hearts. I am 28 myself and am by no means a Bible scholar! But i do know that Christianity and the Bible are the only truth that will hold up. Religion can be a bad thing.. its tends to take our hearts away from whats important which is a personal relationship with Christ and focus it on religious wastes of effort and focus.

As far as true prophets going into a trance, I have never heard that..  not in the Bible, and not in real life..  If thats the case then Mormons are really in trouble.. falling into a trance actually would make me worry where the source of their power came from....

how would God have know if we truly had loved him if there wasnt evil and sin in this world? This topic has been debated over and over. If there was no sin, and no option to choose good over evil how would God know we love him,....  If it was all perfect it would be like a forced love...  You cant force someone to love you..  I cant force my kids to love me.. All I can do is love them and hopefully they love me back. I want my kids to love me because they choose to love me..  not just because I want them to. There has to be free will and choice..  without evil and sin there wouldnt be much of a choice.

[COToy91 [OP]]

more reference to all of chim's arguements...

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=14968.0
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=47553.msg597206;highlight=mormon#msg597206
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=27355.msg386995;highlight=mormon#msg386995
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=23464.0;highlight=mormons

If you are going to be here to put down what i believe and input why you think the LDS church is crap please take it else where to another thread. Start a why mormons should not believe what they do thread.

Thank you,
Ryan K.