A bold statement by ford

[Brenjen]

I've never had a problem out of any ford I ever owned or that my family ever owned, I (we) have had problems out of a Dodge van years ago & I've had a couple go 'rounds with a chevy silverado & a GMC Jimmy & Sierra. All auto manufacturers will spit out a lemon on occasion, Toyota included.

I'm not saying any are better than any other's but some makes do seem to have better quality control over seeing the production line.

[fordh8r]

Being a mechanic, I've said in the past,"They're all junk, they all break. if there was a perfect vehicle everybody would own one and I wouldn't be able to make a killing...er...rather a living at working on them".   

[kneedownnate]

I think you messed that one up...

 

[abnormaltoy]

Other than a 'vette or a Mustang I don't think there's an American car I would own (rent or steal). As far as trucks go...I wouldn't even borrow a new Toyota, I've always liked Ford full sized trucks. The problems with the 6.0 PSD engines were pretty much limited to those caused by tuners...right off the showroom floor all the Ford trucks I've ever owned or driven at work will last until the 2nd coming. Only time will tell how the 6.4's will hold up.

[Duffil]

Other than a 'vette or a Mustang I don't think there's an American car I would own (rent or steal). As far as trucks go...I wouldn't even borrow a new Toyota, I've always liked Ford full sized trucks. The problems with the 6.0 PSD engines were pretty much limited to those caused by tuners...right off the showroom floor all the Ford trucks I've ever owned or driven at work will last until the 2nd coming. Only time will tell how the 6.4's will hold up.

don't forget that LED taillights will blow the computers

[abnormaltoy]

  I guess that'll go on my list then.

[Huhwhye]

as much as i love ford, i wont buy anything newer except for a p71 or a stang.....

the new psds with the 6.0 suck... i would get a 7.3 psd

My neighbor has a F350 6.0 PSD and he gets 12mpg unloaded?  I think that is sub par compared to the Cummins or Duramax.

On Ford... I don't care how good they think their new cars are.  Domestic loyalists have been saying for years and years that the big 3 were as good as Toyota.  But it never works out that way.

[Huhwhye]

Other than a 'vette or a Mustang I don't think there's an American car I would own (rent or steal). As far as trucks go...I wouldn't even borrow a new Toyota, I've always liked Ford full sized trucks. The problems with the 6.0 PSD engines were pretty much limited to those caused by tuners...right off the showroom floor all the Ford trucks I've ever owned or driven at work will last until the 2nd coming. Only time will tell how the 6.4's will hold up.

Most people I know have stock vehicles and don't care to mod their tow vehicles.  The 6.0's still had issues and know of 2 that were lemon lawed.  One broke a crankshaft in the first months of ownership, they gave him a new higher trim level truck to keep him happy, and that one broke too.  My neighbor's F350 is on its 3rd turbo.

And I've driven a few F150's and that mod motor is the biggest pile of crap V8 ever made.  They make no power and no torque and get horrible mpg's.  It's laughable really.

[94MtnYote]

  uh oh some of the new powerstrokes have two turbos.

[abnormaltoy]

  uh oh some of the new powerstrokes have two turbos.

All the new ones do.

Most people I know have stock vehicles and don't care to mod their tow vehicles.  The 6.0's still had issues and know of 2 that were lemon lawed.  One broke a crankshaft in the first months of ownership, they gave him a new higher trim level truck to keep him happy, and that one broke too.  My neighbor's F350 is on its 3rd turbo.

And I've driven a few F150's and that mod motor is the biggest pile of crap V8 ever made.  They make no power and no torque and get horrible mpg's.  It's laughable really.

There are PSDs everywhere down here (Arizona Cadillacs) I know people with older 7.3 engines and newer 6.0, the only real problem one had was injectors on an early 6.0 engine. I don't know about your friend that broke two of them...but I will say the odds are remarkably slim that he got two crappy trucks, he should look at his driving style.
It's the never ending quarrel...Ford, GMC or Dodge (I don't even count Chevy trucks). I would take any of the first three...but, I'd like to take a Ford and put a Cummins in it...that would chap some peoples asses.

[te51levin]

Not sure exactly which 'quality' they are using...  maybe 'Initial Quality', which means...  I dunno, maybe fewest complaints while still on the showroom floor?  I doubt Ford is ahead of anyone after a few years of ownership.

Quality is subjective.  If your standards are low and you aren't the type of person to complain about squeaks or rattles or leaks or other failures, you're not going to report problems.  If you are a typical new Toyota buyer, you expect perfection, and will make sure Toyota knows you are PISSED because the glovebox door can be wiggled against the bumpstops when it is fully closed, and it just looks like it might spill open at any time!

These days stock for stock 98% of the vehicles sold are reliable and last just as long as the next one. 

Working in the parts department of a dealership gives me a unique perspective (read: strong disagreement) on that idea.  We also sell used cars, and a lot of the work our shop does is reconditioning used vehicles to get them ready for the lot.  I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference in the amount of work required to get a typical domestic-brand car up to snuff, relative to any Toyota, Honda, etc.  It's hilarious when the service writers get into it with the used car managers. 

Scenario One: The writers tell the UC manager that a vehicle needs X-hundred dollars' worth of work before it is safe and presentable.  The UC managers scream bloody murder because they want that car on the lot as cheaply as possible.  Writer and manager fight it out.  Writer says something like, "Dude - It's a Ford.  It ain't a Toyota.  It's gonna need work!", or "What did you expect?  It's a Durango with 60,000 miles!", or "Do you REALLY think a four year old Silverado isn't going to need a ton of repairs?"

Scenario Two: Relatively late model vehicle (Ford/GM/Dodge/VW) comes in on trade, and is in need of so much attention that the service writers advise the sales dept. to wholesale the car.  Instead, they sell it to some kid who is dazzled by shiny paint.  Kid brings vehicle back within a week because it doesn't go down the road straight, won't stop, leaks fluids, burns oil, has a CEL that won't go away, won't shift into overdrive, etc.  Sales department is genuinely baffled that this "late model" vehicle is not a paragon of reliability and lights into the service writer for not fixing it when it was through the shop for its one-hour economy-grade "inspection". (Engine: check. Wheels: check. Brake pedal: check.)

There are variations on these two themes at least once a week at our store.  The simple fact is that Ford/GM/Dodge are traditionally and typically built cheap to sell cheap, and sooner or later, that cheapness catches up to them.  It has to.

i have always liked ford... this isnt really a debate... it all comes down to loyalty....

Whether you meant to or not, you hit the nail right on the head.  Some buyers, and probably most truck buyers, are brand loyal because they don't like change, or because Daddy always drove Fords, or for some other inbred reason that has nothing to do with logic or common sense.  Ford people seem to be the absolute worst about this.  They are so hard-headed you could split firewood off their skulls and they wouldn't even turn around.  As long as there are uneducated, unthinking drones in this country - and there are an awful lot of them - there will be plenty of Ford trucks sold every year.  That's whut mah Daddy always drove and I ain't a-gonna question the gummint or the Bible or nothing mah Daddy done.   And that's why I'ma always be a Ford truck man like that Toby Keith.

[Huhwhye]

Ford with a Cummins idea seems popular.  I have a friend who is putting a 12v Cummins in a Older Chevy 1ton crew cab.  He likes the simplicity of the old 12v.

But I'm curious why you don't like Chevys but like GMC's?

[Huhwhye]

That's whut mah Daddy always drove and I ain't a-gonna question the gummint or the Bible or nothing mah Daddy done.   And that's why I'ma always be a Ford truck man like that Toby Keith.

Your whole post rocks, but too long to quote the whole thing.  I love it!!!

[abnormaltoy]

Ford with a Cummins idea seems popular.  I have a friend who is putting a 12v Cummins in a Older Chevy 1ton crew cab.  He likes the simplicity of the old 12v.

But I'm curious why you don't like Chevys but like GMC's?

The trucks are as ugly a vehicle as I've ever seen...simple as that. The only thing I like about the Gmc is the engine.

[Huhwhye]

The trucks are as ugly a vehicle as I've ever seen...simple as that. The only thing I like about the Gmc is the engine.

I think they are all ugly and I haven't been able to say anything looked good in a long time.  I think it is so bad and everything is so ugly that I don't even care what anything looks like anymore.  Let me see the specs...

[abnormaltoy]

I think they are all ugly and I haven't been able to say anything looked good in a long time.  I think it is so bad and everything is so ugly that I don't even care what anything looks like anymore.  Let me see the specs...

I like the Ford styling. The specs are all similar, until you get to the F450.

[Huhwhye]

I like the Ford stying. The specs are all similar, until you get to the F450.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder I guess.  I can't say a single truck in the US market looks good.  Not a single one of any make.  But I've gotten use to it and don't really care anymore.

Specs maybe the same in most aspects.  But seems to me the GM's and Dodge's use less fuel.

My friend's boss just bought a new Duramax 4x4 Dually Crew Cab.  It got 20mpg on a road trip going uphill the whole way from Orange County to Ft. Irwin.  My friend was in the cab as it was a work trip.  Then you have my neighbor across the street that gets 12mpg in a F350 4x4  Crew Cab.  And that is on flat ground.  I didn't ask him what he gets when he loads his Lance.  Probably sucks worse.

[BLACKDOG]

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder I guess.  I can't say a single truck in the US market looks good.  Not a single one of any make.  But I've gotten use to it and don't really care anymore.

Specs maybe the same in most aspects.  But seems to me the GM's and Dodge's use less fuel.

My friend's boss just bought a new Duramax 4x4 Dually Crew Cab.  It got 20mpg on a road trip going uphill the whole way from Orange County to Ft. Irwin.  My friend was in the cab as it was a work trip.  Then you have my neighbor across the street that gets 12mpg in a F350 4x4  Crew Cab.  And that is on flat ground.  I didn't ask him what he gets when he loads his Lance.  Probably sucks worse.

Depending on how I drive, I can get anywhere between 15 and 20 mpg, unloaded, going from Reno to Sacramento, with a 7.3 F250 with a 6spd.  Setting my cruise at 65 gets me right 20 or so   Granted, I rarely drive it at 65, usually run it at 73, and that usually gets me about 17   

I figure on flat ground I could easily get into the 20s going 65, just haven't done it enough to really guage.

[kneedownnate]

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder I guess.  I can't say a single truck in the US market looks good.  Not a single one of any make.  But I've gotten use to it and don't really care anymore.

I have to say, I think the toyota is actually one of the ugliest full sizes on the market right now, but I'd still rather have it than anything else.  I like hot girls, but I'd much rather date one who's only mildly attractive but has some substance and quality.

[Huhwhye]

Depending on how I drive, I can get anywhere between 15 and 20 mpg, unloaded, going from Reno to Sacramento, with a 7.3 F250 with a 6spd.  Setting my cruise at 65 gets me right 20 or so   Granted, I rarely drive it at 65, usually run it at 73, and that usually gets me about 17   
I figure on flat ground I could easily get into the 20s going 65, just haven't done it enough to really guage.

I was talking about the 6.0 and not the 7.3

And lets not forget the poor MPG outta F150's with 4.6 and 5.4's.  And their power sucks too by comparison.

I rented 2 trucks last year back to back.  At first Enterprise gave me an F150 Extracab 4.6 and I got 16mpg no matter how easy I took it.  I was driving next to my buddies '04 Taco 4x4 3.4 Automatic and he was faster than me and he had a Honda XR650R in his bed and I was unloaded.

I made Enterprise give me a different truck and they gave me a Chevy EC w/ a 4.8.  What a difference in power and MPG.  .2 Liters is nothing really and I consider both motors to be the an even comparison, but the 4.8 felt a ton better.  I actually ran both 0-60 and I got 10.8 in the F150 and 8.8 in the Silverado.  2 seconds is a lot for just .2 liters, and even if you figure a margin of error, that's a big margin.  And I got 19-20 mpg outta the Chevy in mixed driving.  I took the Chevy to Arizona and it got 21mpg cruising at cozy 90mph.  It was geared so high it was at 2000-2100rpm at 90mph IIRC. Incredible the difference between the 2 trucks.  I spent a week and a 1000 miles on each truck.  Both were 07's IIRC.

In my not so humble opinion that Ford Mod motor has been junk since day one.  They need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new design rather than trying to improve on junk by adding valves and other B.S.  It just doesn't perform well.

[Huhwhye]

I have to say, I think the toyota is actually one of the ugliest full sizes on the market right now, but I'd still rather have it than anything else.  I like hot girls, but I'd much rather date one who's only mildly attractive but has some substance and quality.

I agree its ugly, but I think the current Tundra is just as Fugly as the old one.  I though the old one always looked weird with those tiny little wheel wells and the Rav4 frontend.

[Cheesemaker]

You can order a Ford with a Cat motor.  A buddy has one!  You got to really push for it.  Because they don't want you to have a reliable motor! 

[abnormaltoy]

You can order a Ford with a Cat motor.  A buddy has one!  You got to really push for it.  Because they don't want you to have a reliable motor! 

?
In the F450/350? I know you can get a Cat in the F650.

Which engine is it?

[Cheesemaker]

I can't remember, but it's in a F350 crewcab.  I'll try to find his e-mail and try to get some specs on it.  Maybe I'll try to get the code for it.  Yeah, everybody automatically assumes it in a F450/650, or a commercial series!

[te51levin]

Not sure exactly which 'quality' they are using...  maybe 'Initial Quality', which means...  I dunno, maybe fewest complaints while still on the showroom floor?  I doubt Ford is ahead of anyone after a few years of ownership.

I finally saw the commercial and paused the DVR to read the disclaimer.  That fine print is so small I almost couldn't read it on our 27" TV.  It appears to read, "Based on cumulative survey data of 2007 model year Ford and competitive owners at 3 months of service in three surveys conducted 9/06 - 5/07."

So, congratulations to Ford for proving that, uh...well, what did they prove?  That their vehicles will satisfy the minimum standards of some survey respondents, who were dumb enough to buy Fords in the first place, for three whole months.  Pat yourselves on the back, Ford, you've really redefined quality!

The sad part is not that they're making the claim, but that the viewing public at large may be stupid enough to believe it.  I've had it with this place.  I'm giving up.  Stocker, keep an eye out for cheap proppity up in the hills, will you?  It's time to build an old cornbinder, get a mess of copper tubing and Mason jars, a dobro, some chainsaws, lots of seeds, a dozen chickens and some goats, arm myself to the teeth and wait out the apocalypse.  When the dust settles, this forum may be operating on smoke signals.

Mumble grumble, etc.

[Duffil]

It's time to build an old cornbinder, get a mess of copper tubing and Mason jars, a dobro,

Mumble grumble, etc.

so your makin Shine!!! count me in for a room in your shack!

[te51levin]

Why no, nothing of the sort.  It's motor fuel!  Pure, sweet Kentucky motor fuel. 

[Stocker]

Haha, well the cheap hill proppity is sadly a thing of the past...  but the chainsaws and mason jars are covered, and the goats & chickens won't be hard to get.  Hmmmm, yer startin' to sound like a genuwine Pitchforkerite.   

[te51levin]

Might need to head that way.  I hear Weitchpec is lovely this time of year if you can stand the crowds...

[94MtnYote]

 It goes somethin like:
I got a shotgun, a rifle and a four wheel drive, and a country boy can survive, yeah he yeah yeah he