Author Topic: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions  (Read 86356 times)

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KYOTA

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #30 on: Jan 28, 2007, 10:38:09 AM »
Big Mike, IIRC, White Trash said that he uses 2 shots (shot glass full) of BBs 

You could start of with that, and go from there :thumbs:

yep,  shot glasses or something similar so you can get kind of an equal amount in each

KYOTA

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #31 on: Jan 28, 2007, 10:42:06 AM »
I used steel shot in mine but when I get new tires I am going with the plastic shot. great info in the links Mike, sticky so we dont loose it?

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #32 on: Jan 28, 2007, 02:23:21 PM »
I got some great info from rockrawlin via PM, here it is:

Tech Article on using Air Soft Pellets:
http://www.4x4trailhunters.com/article.php?id=18

Table for weight needed:
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/BigTirechart.htm

Looks like I am going to hit Big-5 today and pick up 44 ounces (1.25kg) of Air Soft Pellets (11 oz per tire / 312 grams).

I am not sure if I will get time to break up the beads today, but I hope to do it soon-

BigMike

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BigMike [OP]

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #33 on: Feb 05, 2007, 08:25:30 AM »
How was Bald?

I just ordered 5,000 count of 0.25gram 6mm Airsoft BBs on eBay shipped for less than $20.

I was at Big-5 yesterday, and all they had were packages of 1,000 0.2g for $9. :o

Using my above estimation, I need 1260-BBs per tire. But since I got a bag of 5,000, I'll only be using 1,250 (0.25g) BBs per tire.

I'll keep this updated
BigMike
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #34 on: Feb 05, 2007, 05:58:01 PM »
i work in a tire shop. so i hear about all kinds of ways to try to balance tires. in my expierece i have never met anyone (in person) that has had good luck with balancing pass or light truck tires with equal or bbs. it works great in larger semi truck tires that wont balance out but i know personally people who had horrible problems putting equal in their non commercial vehicles tires. one friends jeep had 37 inch toyo mud terrains and he couldnt drive over 40 it was so bad. but i understand why you dont want to do it over and over again. my  :twocents: hope it works though.
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BigMike [OP]

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #35 on: Feb 09, 2007, 11:16:39 AM »
:circle:

This just in :thumbs:

I got 5,000 dense 0.25 gram 6mm airsoft bbs from eBay shipped for just under $20.

The yellow BBs I use in my old airsoft gun are also 6mm, but are only 0.12g each.

Also my yellow BBs have seams and small plastic tips, where as the Matrix BBs really are perfectly round and are seamless. All I care about this is that there is less material that might flake off.

As you can see, 4 dense BBs = 10 less dense BBs. :thumbs:

I will be putting 1,000 0.25g BBs per tire. Stay tuned

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #36 on: Feb 09, 2007, 11:28:33 AM »
why do u have a scale like that u sellin stuff on the side :bandit:
j/k let me know how it works

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #37 on: Feb 09, 2007, 12:37:37 PM »
I am gonna use pool balls in my new tires.
If you still have control you aren't going fast enough

BigMike [OP]

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #38 on: Feb 09, 2007, 08:13:02 PM »
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #39 on: Feb 09, 2007, 08:51:45 PM »
I am gonna use pool balls in my new tires.
  :funny: If you use bowling balls you'll use fewer balls all together! saves time in set up too.  :rofl2:

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #40 on: Feb 09, 2007, 11:23:01 PM »
  :funny: If you use bowling balls you'll use fewer balls all together! saves time in set up too.  :rofl2:

With moves like that you could drive the Staun beadlock right out of the market  :yupyup:
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o


I sure hope you didn't think I was serious.































































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BigMike [OP]

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #41 on: Feb 10, 2007, 09:31:20 AM »
GUYS, AS MY PREVIOUS POST INDICATED, THIS MODIFICATION IS FREAKING AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!

From now on I am going to COMPLETELY SWEAR by using Internal Balancing BBs.


Step 1: Use this Table to determine how much weight is needed: http://www.innovativebalancing.com/BigTirechart.htm

Step 2: Purchase at least 0.25g dense Precision Airsoft BBs. I paid $10 for 5,000.


(Steps 3 - 9 were done 1-tire-at-a-time.)
Step 3: Deflate Tire on the vehicle by removing the valve core. Keeping the tire positioned so that the Valve Stem is near the top will be good so you don't accidentally blow out any BBs on Step 8.


Step 4: Put Hi-Lift jack (or similar) against something solid and against the tire bead.


Step 5: Break the Tire bead.


Step 6: Measure out and divide the BBs for the number of tires you are doing. I measured 312g (1,250 BBs) per tire.


Step 7: Pour the BBs into the tire. We made a funnel out of bubble wrap (the closest paper-like object to us).


Step 8: Reseat the Bead. Here's how we did it: With the valve core yet removed, pull the tire as much as you can back onto the bead, and use a high pressure air nozzle directly into the valve stem. With the valve core removed and the blow gun directly in the valve stem, it is rather easy with a large volume of air entering the tire.

Step 9: Inflate tire to desired Pressure.

Step 10: Repeat Steps 3 - 9 on each tire.
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2007, 10:14:20 AM by BigMike »
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #42 on: Feb 10, 2007, 09:55:32 AM »
The Aftermath

WOW. After the initial test run, I walked into the shop completely speechless.

My Situation
My tires have taken up to 13 ounces each to balance on our balancer. I love to air down as much as possible (below 5 psi w/no beadlocks). After each run however, my tires get worse and worse on the highway on the return drive home. I believe that the rim is turning inside the tire? or at least the fact that these tires are new and are hence breaking in and loosing their balance that way. Also, I've been forced to use friend's LAME Powertanks, and the C02 looses like 15 psi from the mountains to the valley, and since my tires were initially balanced at 25 psi, even if you run them at 20 psi, its a nightmare.
So it seems that with each passing day my truck gets worse and worse. Right at 35 MPH I get a quick death wobble that goes away at 40 MPH. Also items on my passenger seat are bouncing, even while cruising on the freeway. When I slow down to a red light, I can feel the truck wanting to "buck". When I brake and unload the rear suspension, it almost feels like the rear tires are trying to jump off of the road.

The Result
Keep in mind that at this time, I have ONLY done JUST the Front Tires. I will do the Rears Tonight. When I first drove the truck, I noticed that by about 10 MPH _EVERYTHING_ instantly smoothened out. At 35 MPH there is only a very very slight feeling in the steering wheel. I no longer have to power through it or hold on to the wheel. The Death Wobble is COMPLETELY GONE. I still have the rear end bucking sensation, but now I can exactly identify it as coming from the rear! Before everything was just bouncing all over, but now I can clearly feel that only the rear tires feel out of round when I slow for an intersection.

I found myself over running the Crosswalk line while slowing down for red lights. Imagine trying to roll an Egg across your kitchen counter. Now compare that to rolling a pool-table ball. Big Difference. Likewise, Power is conservered, the Truck coasts much longer while maintaining the same speed.

It feel like my tires have 100 PSI and I am driving on Glass.

When I slow down, when I am *almost* to a complete stop, all of a sudden you hear *chc chc chc chc keen keen keen* as the BBs fall from the tire, bounce on the wheel, and fall to the bottom. It is really fun to listen to!

Also, on the freeway, in order to cruise at 70 MPH in 5th gear, according to my boost gauge, I would be right at "0", 0-vacuum and 0-boost. Now I can cruise 70 MPH at -2-vacuum. SERIOUSLY. And what's even better is that my Air/Fuel Gauge reports that the computer is no longer having to go into Open Loop mode to cruise at 70, it runs Closed Loop, which means wwaayy better Fuel Savings.

I guarantee this will have a positive impact on my fuel mileage, yet alone the tire life, tread wear/pattern, wheel bearings, etc.

Any down side?
Maybe only the fact that the BBs make sound when you stop, but I happen to like it!

I will get the rear tires finished tonight and report back next week

If you are even *thinking* about doing this, don't hesitate, JUST DO IT!!

BigMike
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2007, 10:06:14 AM by BigMike »
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #43 on: Feb 10, 2007, 09:58:27 AM »
   i wonder if they wear the inide of the tire at all.  i think ill get some!!!

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #44 on: Feb 10, 2007, 10:08:37 AM »
If that is any case, then using the Airsoft BBs is better because they are lighter than Steel Shots and therfore a much larger quanity is needed. So the amount of wear per area would be spread out over a much larger area inside the tire, and it will wear at a much slower rate.
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #45 on: Feb 10, 2007, 10:56:02 AM »
its nice isn't it. i am glad that it is workin as well for you as it did for me

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #46 on: Feb 10, 2007, 01:38:01 PM »
those are some pretty strong claims mike!! intriguing idear.......did you remove the old balancing weights from the wheel??
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #47 on: Feb 10, 2007, 02:56:31 PM »
those are some pretty strong claims mike!! intriguing idear.......did you remove the old balancing weights from the wheel??

I thought about doing that, but thought I would first put the BBs in and see what happens.

Now that it's working so well, I kinda don't want to touch it. :nerv:

Perhaps I will mark where the weights are, remove them, and then report back :thumbs: But they are glued on so I'll probably leave it alone :gap:
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2007, 03:05:34 PM by BigMike »
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #48 on: Feb 10, 2007, 09:13:57 PM »
I thought about doing that, but thought I would first put the BBs in and see what happens.

Now that it's working so well, I kinda don't want to touch it. :nerv:

Perhaps I will mark where the weights are, remove them, and then report back :thumbs: But they are glued on so I'll probably leave it alone :gap:
It sounds as if the wheel weights you left on your wheel from the original balance job would take out most the bumps and the BB's just fine tune it from there.  If the BB's work all bythemselves then that would be an advantage of not having wheel weights to lose on the trail. :thumbs: Excellent job! Hope to hear what long term affects there may be ( internal tire wear and such...). Please report..... :eyebrow:

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #49 on: Feb 10, 2007, 11:47:15 PM »
Let's see. ASBOUT TIME.........TOLD YA SO.  :hahaha:  Glad you had a chance to get it done Mike. I tried it a few years and I haven't had a set of trail tires conventionally balanced since.  :thumbs:
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #50 on: Feb 27, 2007, 02:36:42 PM »
bringing this back up...

I just ordered a 5000/pack of these same pellets. I run the same exact Pitbull tires, but on a 15x10 beadlock wheel. I was curious if you ever pulled the wheel weights off?

Have you added the pellets to the rear yet?

What are your thoughts now that you've had some time to put miles on the tires since putting the pellets in?
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #51 on: Feb 27, 2007, 11:40:39 PM »
No, I have not pulled the previously installed wheel weights yet.

Yes, I have installed them in all four tires, which stopped the rear from "bucking" during negative acceleration.

Thoughts: I have been driving my truck more and more these days, and I have noticed the following mannerisms of internal beadlocking:

1) The Resetting Factor. Once I am up to speed and life is peachy, if I hit a pot hole or try to jump the railroad tracks near my house, the tires will become momentarily unbalanced. Then as if the tires turned into marshmellows, everything smoothens back out within seconds.

2) The Goose-It-And-Loose-It Factor. If I accelerate hard from a red light, I sometimes get pretty bad wobble at seemingly random speeds. The wobble quickly fades out however, as the BBs finally balance out the tire. Of course this must depend on how much acceleration you can achieve from a dead stop.

3) The Where-Did-It-Go Factor. My previous wobble occurred worst around 35-40 mph. If I accelerate slowly ensuring proper BB placement, and then let up right at 35-ish mph, then the wobble will slowly appear for a couple of seconds and then slowly disappear. It is really bizarre. One minute its smooth, then I can feel it in the wheel, and then it smoothens back out.

These BBs are really cool :thumbs:
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #52 on: Mar 01, 2007, 07:30:49 PM »
No, I have not pulled the previously installed wheel weights yet.

If you feel like they're still located correctly you might not want to.  A local shop a while back reported better results using both static and dynamic weights on big ugly tires than one or the other independently.  I have about a pound of steel shot in each of my 36s, and I've found it about equal to the results I got out of a good shop balancing or a double the recommended quantity of Counteract balancing.  BBs are definitely better imho than paying rebalancing fees umpteen times a season, but I'll be using a combination of methods when I replace these as I haven't found anything to be the ticket yet.
« Last Edit: Mar 01, 2007, 11:02:53 PM by WileEToyote »
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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #53 on: Mar 01, 2007, 08:01:48 PM »
Mike, you need to fix your picture links for your instructions.
I'll be using this for my 36(37) IROK's :thumbs:

Do you think any tire shop would put these in when mounting them?

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #54 on: Mar 01, 2007, 08:50:14 PM »
Mike, you need to fix your picture links for your instructions.
I'll be using this for my 36(37) IROK's :thumbs:

Do you think any tire shop would put these in when mounting them?


Dont worry MINI my tire guys will do it fer ya'   :biggthumpup:

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #55 on: Mar 02, 2007, 12:07:15 AM »
I just read through this and I must say I was confused at first and would have never thought of such a thing.  very cool!  The concept of free mass automatically knowing where to go, to counterbalance seemed so unnatural at first.  :thumbs:

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Z0RACK25

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #56 on: Mar 03, 2007, 11:08:56 PM »
I haven't done this yet or know anyone who has, but I do plan on doing this.

Take the tires and put them on the balance machine.  It'll spit out how much weight it needs.  Put that amount of weight in BB's into your tire.

I worked at Discount Tire and I've never heard of anyone putting BB's or sand in their tire. I'm not exactly sure how this is supposed to help balance your tire.

From what I know, you put wieghts to counter heavy spots in the tire/rim. Often times we would spin the tire on the rim in hopes of matching the heavy spot in the tire with a light spot on the rim.

With BB's or sand, wouldn't it simply stop moving at the point where centrifugal force would keep it in place on that point of the tire? It would seem to me that depending on when the force was reached it would end up in a heavy spot, light spot randomly.

I think it would make your balance better or worse ramdonly. And there's nothing worse than a bad vibe going down the freeway. Then having to stop and get going again to balance it out.

Also, while crawling wouldn't you not be moving fast enough to even see any advantage from the BB's/sand cause it would just be sitting at the bottom of the tire?
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over another, Fight...

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Angels on the sideline again
Wondering when this tug of war will end.

Rockcrawlintoy

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #57 on: Mar 03, 2007, 11:13:55 PM »
while crawling u dont need a tire to be balanced. check out equals website it explains it there

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alwayzbroken

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #58 on: Mar 03, 2007, 11:33:40 PM »
I worked at Discount Tire and I've never heard of anyone putting BB's or sand in their tire. I'm not exactly sure how this is supposed to help balance your tire.

From what I know, you put wieghts to counter heavy spots in the tire/rim. Often times we would spin the tire on the rim in hopes of matching the heavy spot in the tire with a light spot on the rim.

With BB's or sand, wouldn't it simply stop moving at the point where centrifugal force would keep it in place on that point of the tire? It would seem to me that depending on when the force was reached it would end up in a heavy spot, light spot randomly.

I think it would make your balance better or worse ramdonly. And there's nothing worse than a bad vibe going down the freeway. Then having to stop and get going again to balance it out.

Also, while crawling wouldn't you not be moving fast enough to even see any advantage from the BB's/sand cause it would just be sitting at the bottom of the tire?

Discount Tire must only hire experts in the tire field. That being said, all the people that buy balancing sand, and the companies that produce it must all be on crack. Can you please share your theory on how all those people and engineers got confused into believing that balancing sand actually works? It isn't every day that the truth comes out and a proven product gets disproved by a 9$ per hour tire discount tire tech.  ::)

Why the heck would you need a balanced tire while crawling?
If you still have control you aren't going fast enough

Z0RACK25

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Re: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions
« Reply #59 on: Mar 04, 2007, 12:17:11 AM »
Discount Tire must only hire experts in the tire field. That being said, all the people that buy balancing sand, and the companies that produce it must all be on crack. Can you please share your theory on how all those people and engineers got confused into believing that balancing sand actually works? It isn't every day that the truth comes out and a proven product gets disproved by a 9$ per hour tire discount tire tech.  ::)


Why the heck would you need a balanced tire while crawling?

Hey thanks jackass.

I was asking a question and posing why I thought this theory was inaccurate.

If you want to talk about wasted money, ask the oil/gas additive industry. Millions to billions of dollars being spent on products that do nothing, to next to nothing for your car. So just because someone is selling it and people are buying it doesn't mean that it's actually doing anything beneficial.

Now, if you go back and read my post you'll see that I actually put some logic into understanding how this works. I added my backround on the subject just for the hell of it. Now while working there for a year and a half, and selling plenty of mudders, Iroks and all kinds of tires I never heard of this nor did I ever see it.

Now, unless you want to add something helpful to the subject, like answering my questions as to why it works when I can see why it wouldn't work, move along.
Fight over the clouds, over wind, over sky
Fight over life, over blood, over prayer,
overhead and light
Fight over love, over sun,
over another, Fight...

Angels on the sideline again.
Been soon long with patience and reason.
Angels on the sideline again
Wondering when this tug of war will end.

 
 
 
 
 

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