Author Topic: "BB" Tire Balancing Questions (Read 109897 times)

BigMike · « **on:** Jan 22, 2007, 11:52:13 AM »

Hey guys

I know and understand the idea of using internal tire balancers such as what I am describing below.

I have heard of WHITE_TRASH and KYOTA using some bb's in their tires to balance them.

I also know about the sand you can buy at any tire shop.

I don't like the idea about the sand because I often air down and up on the trails of course, unlike the daily driver tire shop customer who never airs down. I stop whereever I stop, and if my valve stem is at the bottom when I air down, the sand is likely to blow out..

So here is my question: I asked KYOTA about this once and he just told me to put a small hand full of bbs in each tire. But I would like to know exactly how much to add. Has anyone done this before? Did you make measurements?

How many grams of bbs are needed for a 37x13.5-15 tire?

Also I remember reading something about using silver shot bbs instead of copper ones because the copper ones wear off and plug up the valve stem.

BigMike · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 11:57:02 AM »

I am pretty much ready to start exprementing with this..

I'll just start with like 100 grams or something, I have no idea, and then drive it around. Add some more, drive it around, etc. Then I'll report back with how many grams I added.

KYOTA: Can I just pull the valve core and push each bb in, or should I just break the beed? Do that at least fit in the valve stem?

Thanks

All_Set · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 12:06:54 PM »

I haven't done this yet or know anyone who has, but I do plan on doing this.

Take the tires and put them on the balance machine. It'll spit out how much weight it needs. Put that amount of weight in BB's into your tire.

BigMike · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 01:17:41 PM »

Quote from: All_Set on Jan 22, 2007, 12:06:54 PM

Take the tires and put them on the balance machine. It'll spit out how much weight it needs. Put that amount of weight in BB's into your tire.

Ok, that is something I have not thought about, but remember that if you adjust the distance away from the mounting surface to where the weights are to be applied (ie. the lip of the rim), the amount required obviously changes due to an increased or decreased leverage acting against the out of balanced portion of the tire.

So I could just assume that the distance from the center of the wheel mount surface is about the centerline of the tire, but as the tire rotates, are the BBs not able to move to possibly a certain side of the tire where the weights are needed?

If so, then turning the tire on the machine will not identify how far this distance from the wheel mount is. Therefore I won't be able to set the machine up, and hence it won't be able to identify the correct amount of weight needed.

BigMike

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 02:46:51 PM »

Big Mike, IIRC, White Trash said that he uses 2 shots (shot glass full) of BBs

You could start of with that, and go from there

BigMike · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 03:09:35 PM »

Cool, I'll figure out what 1 shot full weighs, record it, and put in just the 1 shot. Then if it still is out of balance, then I will slowly add more weights and report back.

I remember KYOTA telling me that he bought a box of shells and then used like 2 shells per tire or something. He broke open each shell and used the BBs in side.

What kind of BBs should I buy? I've never been to a gun store (except for Big-5 hahaha) so I really don't even know what to ask for.

Do I ask for "BB gun ammo" or something?

Thanks!

Shamb · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 03:35:33 PM »

I'd suppose that it really depends on how far off balance the tire is, every tire differs... so to give an exact amount wouldn't work for everyone's application.

I've also heard of this method but never tried it, sounds like you'll be doing some experimenting BigMike! Post up your results

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 03:59:51 PM »

you can get BBs anywhere, Walmart, Big 5, etc.

Walmart has shotgun shells too, if you want to go that route.

trevinotrek · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 07:23:58 PM »

hey big mike my last set of 35's had one tire that they said couldn't be balanced so they rotated thetire on the rim and just because Had some golf ball with me "heard about this on another board "put 6 inside made hell of a funny noise when stopping but dame near got it dead on balanced.

Rockcrawlintoy · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 07:31:27 PM »

i have airsoft BBs with my iroks. i have about 2500 in each tire and they are smooth as glass

DRew

BigMike · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 07:48:55 PM »

What? Are you talking about the 5mm or 6mm plastic BBs ?? w o w

Seriously?

Rockcrawlintoy · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:02:29 PM »

6mm ones. its only about 10 oz of them in each tire

Drew

BigMike · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:04:59 PM »

And that was enough for 40" tires? wow. That sounds better to me than using metal counterparts. Must be quieter and easier on the wheel and tire......

Rockcrawlintoy · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:28:40 PM »

u can hear them a little when u stop. it baffled me for a while lol but overall it is smooth as glass. are your pitbulls out of balance? i remember them being smooth from the trailhead to south lake.

Drew

BigMike · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:42:33 PM »

Yup, I thought that was you!

Well I think my rims may have turned inside the tires because they got pretty bad after my Dusy/Ershim run. Either that or since they are new tires, they were just breaking in and this must be normal on larger tires (?) I wouldn't know as this is my first set of new truck tires I've ever owned.

Also, I've yet to finish my onboard air system so I've been bumming off of stupid (in my opinion) powertanks. Since I balanced the tires at 25psi, if you run 15psi on the road, they are way out of balance. Air pressure makes a night and day difference.....

.....so with the stupid C02 air in my tires, I loose like 10 pounds of pressure dropping from 6k to 300 feet elevation. So as I make my way down the mountain, my tires progressively get worse and worse.

Enter the Internal Balancers. BBs would be PERFECT for what I am describing. That is why I am going to give it a try.

BigMike · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:46:14 PM »

I would like to run the Pitbulls at 20 or maybe even 15 on the streets, but the gas bill sucks as a daily driver.. I know that I am wearing out the centers at 25psi..... Well if I could play with the air pressure without having to rebalance the tires each time, then I might experiment a bit then.

Another reason to give it a try.

Rockcrawlintoy · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:49:01 PM »

i like my co2 tank, but i only use it for my arb. i need to get my OBA hooked up so i can fill tires, but i will still use CO2 for my arb. anyway the BBs will work well ill post a link to about how much weight u wanna use from the innova website.

Drew

Rockcrawlintoy · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:51:07 PM »

Quote from: BigMike on Jan 22, 2007, 10:46:14 PM

I would like to run the Pitbulls at 20 or maybe even 15 on the streets, but the gas bill sucks as a daily driver.. I know that I am wearing out the centers at 25psi..... Well if I could play with the air pressure without having to rebalance the tires each time, then I might experiment a bit then.

Another reason to give it a try.

i hear ya on that. my iroks were doin that but i have them on 8inch rims. when i get done with my rear axle swap ill go with some 10s. luckly i have 2 sets of tires so i run my MTRs for dd use and the 40s for wheelin. also the BBs will change for every psi and speed u go.

DRew

freds40 · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 10:55:43 PM »

Hey Mikey, I've run BBs on a few sets of tires and they work great. With my 35s and 36s, I ran 8 oz per tire. I used the copperhead BBs from Big 5. I've heard of the copper cladding coming off and messing with the schrader valve but I never had the problem. With my FAT 38s, I was running 12 oz IIRC. None in the 42s yet but I'll probably throw some in eventually. Daily driving them I had no problems. I could run 75 down the road on my boggers and SXs and had no excess feedback from the tires. 4WPW charges something like $20 a tire to mount and balance. I am usually able to do all 4 of mine for $10-$20.

BigMike · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 11:08:06 PM »

Quote from: Rockcrawlintoy on Jan 22, 2007, 10:51:07 PM

also the BBs will change for every psi and speed u go.

Well there goes my whole premise.... $I\'m Down$

Quote from: freds40 on Jan 22, 2007, 10:55:43 PM

Hey Mikey, I've run BBs on a few sets of tires and they work great. With my 35s and 36s, I ran 8 oz per tire. I used the copperhead BBs from Big 5. I've heard of the copper cladding coming off and messing with the schrader valve but I never had the problem. With my FAT 38s, I was running 12 oz IIRC. None in the 42s yet but I'll probably throw some in eventually. Daily driving them I had no problems. I could run 75 down the road on my boggers and SXs and had no excess feedback from the tires. 4WPW charges something like $20 a tire to mount and balance. I am usually able to do all 4 of mine for $10-$20.

I know who I'll be calling up very soon

kneedownnate · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 22, 2007, 11:15:37 PM »

Quote from: freds40 on Jan 22, 2007, 10:55:43 PM

Hey Mikey, I've run BBs on a few sets of tires and they work great. With my 35s and 36s, I ran 8 oz per tire. I used the copperhead BBs from Big 5. I've heard of the copper cladding coming off and messing with the schrader valve but I never had the problem.

Seems like lead bb's would solve that problem, but I wonder how long it'd take them to get deformed and start getting stuck together? Mike, any gun store will have reloading supplies, and you'd be far better off buying a bag or tin of shot than buying shells, taking them apart and dumping out the shot! You may even see if one of the guys behind the counter knows beans about the different types of shot, mostly the density/weight, etc.

Volcom · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 23, 2007, 08:16:10 AM »

I just used the airsoft plastic BB's in my tires. I bought one 10,000 container of them. One OZ is equal to 28.35 grams. So, 10oz's is equal to 283.5 grams. I ended up with 280 grams per tire / .12 grams per BB which equals roughly 2333 BB's per tire. I haven't gotten a chance to drive on them yet but they should work good!

BigMike · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 23, 2007, 10:16:02 AM »

Quote from: Volcom on Jan 23, 2007, 08:16:10 AM

I haven't gotten a chance to drive on them yet but they should work good!

This seems to be the whole point so I am eager to hear of your results.

At first the airsoft seemed like a good idea, alas for some reason, because they are light. But that of course means that we'll need many more of them to equal the same as metal BBs.

I have to think if the plastic will have less an impact on the rim and tire.
I speculate that they will be noisey, but its hard to compare the noise of 10,000 plastic parts to only like 1000 metal.

Rockcrawlintoy · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 23, 2007, 10:29:40 AM »

its not noisy when u slow down is when u can hear it.

here is a link on pirate. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516446

DRew

BigMike · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 23, 2007, 10:45:30 AM »

Quote from: Rockcrawlintoy on Jan 23, 2007, 10:29:40 AM

its not noisy when u slow down is when u can hear it.

Well yeah, thanks to centrifugal forces

Thanks for the link, I will check it out-

RAZOR · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 23, 2007, 11:13:14 AM »

Damn, this should be easy for me to try workin at a tire shop. I will let you know what happens and i have an idea that could pretty much get your balancing down to zero. I will let you know how it works and post up.

Hayes

BigMike · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 23, 2007, 01:09:38 PM »

Thanks guys. I was going to try it out tonight, but plans changed and I won't be able to do this until this weekend.

Hayes, if you have time during this week, then I'm interested in your results.

BigMike

bigman · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 23, 2007, 06:50:19 PM »

when i did semi tires i think we put 6 to 8 oz of that sand but im not sure. but for a 37 id go 4 to 6 oz

8D3TOY · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 27, 2007, 07:14:31 PM »

Here's what I know, we ran Equal (the sand) in most of our road truck tires mainly just in the steering tires it worked well for that. In our dump trucks that would see alot of dirt and get more nails/slow leaks the equal would work it's way into the bead probably from the tire flexing more causing slow leaks PITA. Our tire guy tried BB's,lead shot and a course ground lead and I think walnut shells (ground up) the lead shot worked best but eventually clumped up,the BB's seemed to have the same result but brutalized the inside of the rim leaving small flakes of aluminum or paint from the steel rims that eventually clogged the shrader. The walnut shells & lead sand were a mess. This was a while ago and these trucks ran tons of miles it was an effort by Dad to get longer wear out of the tires but in the end he just ran Equal in the steering tires. Balance was not critical on the huge truck tires but on a smaller scale I think it would be eaiser to get results should be interesting.

BigMike · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 28, 2007, 09:45:26 AM »

I got some great info from rockrawlin via PM, here it is:

Tech Article on using Air Soft Pellets:
http://www.4x4trailhunters.com/article.php?id=18

Table for weight needed:
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/BigTirechart.htm

Looks like I am going to hit Big-5 today and pick up 44 ounces (1.25kg) of Air Soft Pellets (11 oz per tire / 312 grams).

I am not sure if I will get time to break up the beads today, but I hope to do it soon-

BigMike

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