Author Topic: Bad knuckle angle? on SAS (Read 3993 times)

Payne · « **on:** Nov 17, 2006, 05:57:50 PM »

Hey everyone, Noob to the site. I have an 86 4runner and am just finishing an SAS. I used a SAS kit and 4" springs and am concerned about the angle of the knuckle and pinion. The pinion is only 1.5 degrees up from being parallel with the vehicle. I was going to put 8 degree shims in to help but found that the tie rod of the high steer then touches the springs? Am I the only one that has come across this? I have seen nothing on it as far as what spec. would be on axle angle. Thanks.

Hottrod81 · « **Reply #1 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 05:59:37 PM »

Do you have any pics of the vehicle. I had a similar problem with mine and put some 3 degree shims in it and cleared the problem up.

Payne · « **Reply #2 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 06:04:01 PM »

No pics. Dont have a camera. I purchased 8 degree shims but they wouldn't fit due to the tie rod. I was thinking of removing the lower most spring out of the spring pack to gain back a 1/4 inch and then try again with the 8 degree shim or possibly going to 6?

Hottrod81 · « **Reply #3 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 06:08:46 PM »

I wouldn't do that much. You are going to have some castor issues and the truck won't drive correctly. To correct that problem, you will have to cut and turn the knuckles to get it to drive correctly.

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #4 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 06:14:54 PM »

Pictures would help, but you need to be more concerned about the caster angle than pinion angle.

You don't want the pinion too high unless you plan on cutting the nuckel balls loose and turning them back to get the proper caster.

Are you using a CV shaft in the front or just a standard shaft?

If you used a SAS kit you should not have a problem.

Who's kit and springs did you use?

Payne · « **Reply #5 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 06:18:43 PM »

Its Allpros kit, 4" springs, and highsteer and an 83 axle

Payne · « **Reply #6 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 06:19:49 PM »

O and a CV driveshaft will be used

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #7 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 06:24:40 PM »

Unless you did something differant you should have no problem with angle.

Usually you want the pinion pointing at the shaft when using a CV, BUT not so much of a problem on the front.

How bad would the angles be if you used a regular shaft?

insane04 · « **Reply #8 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 06:37:08 PM »

i have done 6 SAS this year an i had probs with one and the customer supplied shackles and i put factory lenght shackles back on cured the problem. a 1.5 in over sized shackle will change about 6 degrees in pinion angle

hope this helps

Payne · « **Reply #9 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 06:42:15 PM »

That was one of my options, to redrill the new shackel. And possibly use a smaller shim at the same time.

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #10 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 07:03:53 PM »

Where did you put your shackel bushing? In the frame or under the frame? And how long is the shackel?

fullthrottle · « **Reply #11 on:** Nov 17, 2006, 07:49:22 PM »

you can rotate you stering box to move the tie rod. but 8 degree shims will afect the caster quiet a bit. maybe rotate the stering box, and use some 6 degree or 3 degree shims. and befor you get the knuckles cut and turnded go for a Dual Transfercase that will make you frount drive shaft 8.5'' longer that will help with drive line angle.

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #12 on:** Nov 18, 2006, 06:39:42 AM »

Quote from: fullthrottle on Nov 17, 2006, 07:49:22 PM

you can rotate you stering box to move the tie rod. but 8 degree shims will afect the caster quiet a bit. maybe rotate the stering box, and use some 6 degree or 3 degree shims. and befor you get the knuckles cut and turnded go for a Dual Transfercase that will make you frount drive shaft 8.5'' longer that will help with drive line angle.

Rotating the steering box will do no good. The tie rod will not be efected, only the drag link.

Definatly go duals before cutting up the front diff.

I can't believe there is that much of a problem with the angle.

Usuly you don't have to rotate unless you have like 12" or more of lift.

Hottrod81 · « **Reply #13 on:** Nov 18, 2006, 12:07:30 PM »

I had a problem with my front u-joing binding on mine, that's why I installed a 3 degree shim.

Payne · « **Reply #14 on:** Nov 18, 2006, 05:30:57 PM »

More numbers from this morning,BTW:frame bushings are "in" the frame per installation instructions.
Caster-12*
Pinion-.3* down
Made some 4" shackles today and that brought up everything about 2*,will try some 4+6* degree shims tomorrow!

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #15 on:** Nov 19, 2006, 09:39:47 AM »

Have you tried contacting All Pro about this?

It would seem to me if you bought everything from them and did everything by the book there should be no problem.

There has got to be something wrong and they should help you out.

We will try our best to help you figure it out, but without being able to see things makes it very difficult.

Almost sounds like the springs may be the problem, but again without seeing it is hard to say.

snowplow · « **Reply #16 on:** Nov 20, 2006, 09:41:39 PM »

Weird- Me too kinda. I have 93 pickup, 5" all pro springs front and rear.
1. ( they said get 5" so I could run 35's) but I have brand new 37" MTR on it and Its perfect with no rubbing but even with a V8 in front it still sits low in the back. What I am getting at is I think I have a 6" front spring. Which leads me to wonder if you got the wrong springs
2. I also can not get a driveline on the front because I need 8* of shimage. After trying what you did, (double checked shackle position, all pro kit shackles, removed lower leaf, nothing worked) I was faced with 3 choices... Have crappy pinion angle and break ujoints, degree the axle housing, or buy a high pinion. I chose the high pinion because it will raise my driveline about 3 1/2 inches, and its tougher in a front end application, and it has an e-Locker, and its rad-but really expensive. I imagine that a degred housing wouldnt be that cheap either though, and a pain if you have extensive trussing and stuff.
Good Luck- snowplow

dcg9381 · « **Reply #17 on:** Nov 20, 2006, 09:51:18 PM »

The right way to solve this is to cut and rotate the axle. It's a PITA.
With shims, you'll get proper pinion angle, but bad castor and maybe death wobble.
With proper castor, you'll get bad pinion angle, possible binding, and driveline vibration in 4wd at speed.

High pinion helps. Jess and high angle can build some great driveshafts, even with crappy angles... Adding a crawler box helps the pinion angle issue also.

insane04 · « **Reply #18 on:** Nov 21, 2006, 03:12:24 PM »

the point is you shouldnt have to fix persay the problem. with 5" SAS you shouldnt have this issue. there is a stupid reason you are having this problem

A---too long shackle
B---wrong springs
C---incorrect position (front hanger or frame tubes)
D---incorrect installition (spring in backwards they should be marked front or rear)

i would lean towards the too long shackle first try putting a factory one on and the take a measurement.

CALL ALLPRO they should help if you bought it from them!!!!

Payne · « **Reply #19 on:** Nov 21, 2006, 07:40:12 PM »

Heres the deal.This is my sons rig,he(24 yrs old/married/2 kids) started this post because were both stumped.Ive been around fabbing(used to have my own shop)for over 30yrs,just never had to deal with a Toyota,"Im a Jeep guy!(http://hometown.aol.com/__121b_hq51gQJZjgiSZ8iQH1SXqtosuiyVtSd6)" Everything is installed per both All-pro and Marlins spec.We made new 4" shackles for the front and some 5' shackles for the rear.It balanced out the lift but the front drive angles suck.If I would have known about "needing" a high pinion I would have purchased one.Were in 3k$ now(also bought 4.88's and a rear-Detroit/front-Lockrite) and and its just starting to be driveable.
Static:transfer case up 4*
Driveshaft down 22*
pinion up 5*
Drooped:transfer up 4*
Driveshaft down 24*
pinion up 3*
Still need to get driveshafts made!

Payne [OP]

Payne [OP]

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