Author Topic: Lift kit/IFS axle question, front locker question too (Read 7275 times)

rrick · « **on:** Aug 20, 2006, 11:05:10 PM »

I have a '91 4WD pickup that was built with some serious quality... like 8 years ago. I didn't spend too much time with the owner so I hope someone can explain this thing. I was told the lift kit is the old Downey IFS/Rancho 3.5". It has red A-arms and a welded on shock post and some weird slip yolk IFS axles with only one CV boot. It's great I'm sure, but what concerns me is the front locker detroit ez-locker. On pavement, with the hubs locked and in 2WD, the front shimmies and dances with lots of clicks at about 3-20mph going straight, haven't gotten faster, it gets worse, but stops clicking on a turn. Off road I don't notice anything, until of course the 4WD is engaged. Can I drive this thing with hubs engaged 2WD for like a mile trail to pavement to trail with all the clicks or is something going to become destroyed? Is the noise comming partly from the axles? I read somewhere you shouldn't highway drive these single-CVboot axles. If anyone has this kit I have other questions too! Thanks

4WD high is kind of useless in this state (right?), is there any modification to shift directly from 2WD high to 4WD low?

toynorcal · « **Reply #1 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 10:21:45 AM »

Quote from: rrick on Aug 20, 2006, 11:05:10 PM

what concerns me is the front locker detroit ez-locker. On pavement, with the hubs locked and in 2WD, the front shimmies and dances with lots of clicks at about 3-20mph going straight, haven't gotten faster, it gets worse, but stops clicking on a turn. Off road I don't notice anything, until of course the 4WD is engaged. Can I drive this thing with hubs engaged 2WD for like a mile trail to pavement to trail with all the clicks or is something going to become destroyed? Is the noise comming partly from the axles?

The locker you have is a wratcheting type locker. This type of locker will allow one tire to travel farther than the other (in a turn) when its not under power. The clicks you hear are from that wratcheting action.
The "shimmies" I can only imagine are caused when the locker eguages/catches (because you have the hubs locked) which makes your front tire want to pull to a straighter line at speeds. Not generally a problem unless your on an icy road or going fast.

With your hubs enguaged your locker will make the truck behave as though you are running in 4hi except that the action of the locker is less predictable. Yes at higher speeds you can hurt things running that way, moslty in corners when the locker will want to catch.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #2 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 10:36:36 AM »

best advice, DONT drive on pavement with the hubs locked with any kind of locker

rrick · « **Reply #3 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 11:31:22 AM »

All is normal then. Even driving straight, the slight variations in left and right tire rotations is enough to ratchet and catch it. Not a problem, until i get on ice, right? I will just have to find out what happens. Hey, if it lands in a ditch, two lockers and mud tires should pull me out to try again.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #4 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 11:36:37 AM »

Quote from: rrick on Aug 21, 2006, 11:31:22 AM

All is normal then. Even driving straight, the slight variations in left and right tire rotations is enough to ratchet and catch it. Not a problem, until i get on ice, right? I will just have to find out what happens. Hey, if it lands in a ditch, two lockers and mud tires should pull me out to try again.

yea as long as you dont hit that ditch too hard

toynorcal · « **Reply #5 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 02:36:47 PM »

Quote from: rrick on Aug 21, 2006, 11:31:22 AM

All is normal then. Even driving straight, the slight variations in left and right tire rotations is enough to ratchet and catch it. Not a problem, until i get on ice, right? I will just have to find out what happens. Hey, if it lands in a ditch, two lockers and mud tires should pull me out to try again.

Well, its your rig dude, but your next post may be something like "I drained my diff. and it's metal soup".

rrick · « **Reply #6 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 02:50:25 PM »

I understand the noise is normal, but not good. I really dont think i would have come up with differential soup, though

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #7 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 03:19:28 PM »

I don't think that locker should be ratcheting going straight, just under the small steering corrections. That is not normal. THe only time it should ratchet is when you said it was being quiet, on the corners. On a dry solid road, you shouldn't even know you have a locker upfront, even with the hubs locked, except when you are turning.

I'd sya you've got issues with the locker, and mabye alignment

DTB · « **Reply #8 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 03:25:08 PM »

different pressures in the tires could cause the locker to engage/dis-engage abnormally too, right?

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #9 on:** Aug 21, 2006, 03:35:15 PM »

Quote from: DirToyBoy on Aug 21, 2006, 03:25:08 PM

different pressures in the tires could cause the locker to engage/dis-engage abnormally too, right?

mabye, mabye not. I've had my right front down to 10, and my driver's side normal after I ran over a nail, locker didn't do anything

rrick · « **Reply #10 on:** Aug 22, 2006, 10:18:25 AM »

I lifted each A-arm to spin one wheel at a time. With both hubs engaged and one wheel on the ground, the lifted wheel spins with the ratchet sound. If I spin it, stop it, respin it, it catches and does the quick lock/unlock. When in 4WD and back tires on the ground too, but other wheel hub free, the rotating front wheel is wont spin, so the locker works. Hope you could follow that? I guess I'll just keep it off road.

BLACKDOG · « **Reply #11 on:** Aug 22, 2006, 01:15:07 PM »

Quote from: rrick on Aug 22, 2006, 10:18:25 AM

I lifted each A-arm to spin one wheel at a time. With both hubs engaged and one wheel on the ground, the lifted wheel spins with the ratchet sound. If I spin it, stop it, respin it, it catches and does the quick lock/unlock. When in 4WD and back tires on the ground too, but other wheel hub free, the rotating front wheel is wont spin, so the locker works. Hope you could follow that? I guess I'll just keep it off road.

I'd pull that front diff cover off, just to check it out

it ain't hard, and you'll be able to see what is going on

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #12 on:** Aug 22, 2006, 04:23:37 PM »

Class welcome to ratcheting locker 101: jack up your front end, lock both hubs, grab one wheel, slowly start spinning wheel. At this point both should be spinning in the same direction, now if only one spins and you hear a ratcheting sound you have a problem, if both tires are now spinning have a buddy grab the side you are not on. If it starts to ratchet you have a badass locker, if your friend goes flying and the wheel continues to spin your locker is engaged but not working properly...... now go help your friend up.

....and one more thing if you can't get the front to spin at all, put the fricking thing in neutral.

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #13 on:** Aug 22, 2006, 04:29:46 PM »

Yeah those red a-arms are the Downey/Rancho's if you crank too much torsion bar into them they tend to break the arm right on the outside edge of the torsion bar mount on the arm.

rrick · « **Reply #14 on:** Aug 24, 2006, 12:40:48 PM »

Thanks, I tried that. Looks good. I Hi-Lift jacked the front bumper and spun one side and the other axle spun. I say axle because the locker couldn't spin the 33" tire and only ratcheted.

Rocksurfer · « **Reply #15 on:** Aug 24, 2006, 12:46:59 PM »

Hmm spring may be worn, should be able to slowly turn the wheel and have the other side turn also. Though the ez-type locker are not known for their holding power.

toynorcal · « **Reply #16 on:** Aug 24, 2006, 02:19:21 PM »

Quote from: rrick on Aug 24, 2006, 12:40:48 PM

Thanks, I tried that. Looks good. I Hi-Lift jacked the front bumper and spun one side and the other axle spun. I say axle because the locker couldn't spin the 33" tire and only ratcheted.

That doesn't sound right to me. I may be misunderstanding you here. But are you saying that you spun (for example) the driver side tire and saw the passenger side axle turning... and while the passenger side axle turned the tire did not? While your hubs were locked?

If so you have a different problem all together. If your axle turns and your hubs are locked, your tire should spin.Was the wratcheting sound comming from the center of your IFS or closer to the tire? I think a stripped shaft or CV could explain what you described.

rrick · « **Reply #17 on:** Aug 24, 2006, 02:27:20 PM »

Opposite hub had to be unlocked to demonstrate both axles spin. With the opposite axle locked to the tire, the locker slipped and could not spin the tire. This case, seeing as how the hubs can remain unlocked forever until in dirt, I'll just leave it as is.

toynorcal · « **Reply #18 on:** Aug 24, 2006, 02:28:59 PM »

OK, makes more sense now.

Ewong · « **Reply #19 on:** Aug 24, 2006, 06:42:02 PM »

Boy - That sure is an OLD SKOOL IFS lift.

It was considered to be the best in "bolt on" IFS back in the day.
No more however.

The upper A arms were the Rancho A arms from the Rancho kit.
You may or may not have the "rare" and valued "Heavy Duty" Torsion bar sockets.
The Rancho Kit had a bracket that reloacated the upper A arm piviot point "back".

The axle shafts were a comprimise - they used a "U" joint on the inner side and the OEM CV on the outer.
This was an attempt to get more angularity out of the "joint".

While considered "neat" at the time - the kit was loaded with comprimises.

Then WCOR came up with the REAL solution - longer A arms and T100 axles
(well the first ones were custom Porsche 930 CVs and shafts).

Now the several manufs are making serious "almost" bolt on kits for IFS (go fast vs SAS for go slow)
Total Choas
EBS Fabrication
Camburg (I think)

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