Ok ladies I had TSL Thornbirds and they worked fine for me, granted they are not the best mudders but on rocks and modest mud they work fine. A single cleat on the sidewall will support the wieght of one side of your rig by themselves and the tread pattern holds on the rocks from any angle. They were also my best ever hill climb tires I was able to climb ball bearing loose steep hills that in the same truck with other tires I couldn't do. They are noisey as but not as bad as some others and were good for about 40,000 miles but at about 30 some traction was lost. I think their biggest problem is sheding mud fast enough if you like deep thick sticky stuff. I would get them again.