Topic: Ever Wonder What Wound It Look Like To Fall Into a Mine-Shaft?

[Rocksurfer]

Thought I'd share this with you guys, I've stood above vertical mine-shafts at Calico and wondered what would it look like if someone didn't see it, well someone finally didn't see one down in Imperial County and they took pictures.

[Rocksurfer [OP]]

 

[Rocksurfer [OP]]

"Stay on Designated Routes"
Staying on designated routes in remote public land areas of the California Desert became an important lesson for an OHV recreationist and his passenger who fell down a vertical mineshaft last weekend in eastern Imperial County (luckily, a broken arm was the only injury). Traveling off-road in a designated "limited use" area (where travel is restricted to identified safe routes), the two men spent Sunday afternoon and night -- 20 hours total --down the abandoned mineshaft before being rescued.
BLM arranged to have the vehicle extracted. An investigation is underway.

[Shamb]

You know whoever did that probably sha't themselves. I know I would... 

[Rocksurfer [OP]]

Man We Are Saved
BY JEFFREY GAUTREAUX, SUN STAFF WRITER



The two men who spent a night at the bottom of a 30-foot mine shaft in the California desert said they were not sure when — or if — they would get out.

"Just being there all night thinking about all of the ‘what ifs’ was the scariest part," said Gary Mertle, 62, of Sebastopol, Calif.

Mertle and Umberto 'Bert' Cheli, 67, of Santa Rosa, Calif., were driving near Ogilby Road about 10 miles north of Interstate 8 Sunday morning when their Suzuki Samurai plunged into an open mine shaft. They were pulled out of the mine nearly 24 hours later by the Yuma Fire Department's Technical Rescue Team.

Cheli said the fall occurred when they were driving over what they thought was a crest but was actually the tailings that had built up around the mine. He said the vehicle dropped straight downward, slowing only once when the roll bar snagged on the side of the shaft.

"I can still hear that scraping as we were going down," Mertle said.

Mertle suffered a broken arm, and Cheli's head was badly scraped by the crash and by rocks that fell after they hit the bottom. Cheli said they would have died if they had not been wearing seat belts.

The two had a nine-channel radio with them, but it was no good at the bottom of the shaft. They knew their friends and family who were also on vacation with them would start looking at some point, but they did not know if they would be able to find them.

Since Mertle could not use his broken arm, Cheli set about doing work necessary to last them through the night. He did his best with a lug wrench and a pocket knife to disconnect the vehicle's battery and fuel line.

"If it would have caught fire, we'd have been cooked down there," he said.

Cheli cut up the vehicle's seats and pulled out the foam to warm them, sliced the fabric top to create a makeshift tent and threw anything the two did not need out of the mine in hopes that someone would see it. They were afraid the temperatures would plunge overnight, but Cheli said it was actually not that cold. The fabric top helped in keeping the winds off them.

They spent the night in upright sitting positions trying to sleep but with no success. This was no surprise since two people and a vehicle were wedged into a space that was about 10 feet by 10 feet. Cheli said at one point some sort of animal was near the top of the shaft and knocking rocks in on them.

Mertle said there was no way to climb out of the shaft because the sides went straight up and had loose rock. If no one had found them Monday, Mertle said Cheli was going to attempt to scale the wall.

But that wasn't necessary because Mertle's wife, Rhonda, — even though she had been told not to search because it was dangerous — found them.

"She had an intuition that we were close by. And we were, we were only about a half mile from camp. She said it was the second time she yelled and we heard her. We yelled back, and then we hugged each other and said ‘Man, we are saved,’ ” Mertle said.

Mertle said there were some discussions over jurisdiction for the rescue and the way to do it, so he spent an extra hour sitting in the shaft, but after letting some people know he was more than ready to come out, he was brought up.

Today, Mertle is going to a hospital in San Diego to get a cast for his arm. The arm swelled so much during the time in the mine that a cast could not be on it initially. He is also going to see a hand specialist to ensure there is no long-term damage to his fingers.

BLT Companies was called out and used a crane to pull the Suzuki out of the hole. On Tuesday, neither Cheli nor Mertle knew where it was — just that some agency towed it away. Cheli said some of the people who helped search for him were interested in the parts, and he might try to accommodate them.

Cheli said the open mines were all over the area, and the two men were aware of them. However, in this case, as
they went over the crest they had no time to react. He said if people decide to go off-road in these sorts of areas they should be sure to have food and tools with them in case they find themselves in a difficult spot.

Despite this incident, the vacation will continue for these northern Californians. Cheli said they planned to head to Nyland, Calif., to have the saunas work out the kinks that developed from spending such an uncomfortable night.

Both agreed this was the craziest thing that had ever happened to them and would make for quite a story for years to come. "I would say so," said Cheli. "We've had some exciting times on our adventures, but nothing like this."

[unclejpl4x4]

dam

[Rocksurfer [OP]]

dam

Now he didn't drive over a dam, he drove into a mineshaft. 


I just wonder what the bill for the crane's gonna be?

[KYOTA]

that guys an idiot thats standing on the back of that thing, might as well be standing directly under it and that operator should be shitcanned for allowing it

[Shamb]

why? he's hooked to a harness.

[KYOTA]

  the harness fails he falls, the winch drums on that grove are driven hydraulicly, hydraulic failure and he falls, then the headache ball lands on top of him. If the cable breaks he falls, ball gets him. If the crane were to come into contact with electrical lines, he'd be crispy. If the operator passed out, died whatever and slumped over on the controls he could suck him into the block (of the boom)or even the main line. He could be swung into something. I could go on and on but hey its his own stupidity and Darwin let him go - this time

[Rocksurfer [OP]]

All those things could happen and a low flying jet could hit the the cable wrap around the wing and wisk him into the air. He is attached to the secondary winch I think he'd be Ok even if the main line snapped.

[unclejpl4x4]

alice n chains "down in a hole feeling so low"

[KYOTA]

All those things could happen and a low flying jet could hit the the cable wrap around the wing and wisk him into the air. He is attached to the secondary winch I think he'd be Ok even if the main line snapped.

Its called common sense and yes nothing did happen and probably wouldnt. I guess its just how a person learns to work safely after years and  years in the field. Kinda like the small excavation owner/operator here in Portland that had his two sons in the ditch laying pipe with no shoring because of the same "nothing would happen, they'll be ok" attitude. Well the ditch caved and both sons died that day because of taking shortcuts. 5 minutes to install some speed shore or the rest of the fathers life thinking what he shoulda or coulda done. But hey its not me up there and you just cant learn some people.
 Cool pics of the rig in the hole tho.
And FYI the whip line runs off the same hydraulic system that the main drum does 

[unclejpl4x4]

not 2 interrupt your debate but he problay is a experienced crane rope guy lets call him "bob"      most likely it happend in this order
1. the operator and bob checked there crane/rigging befor the lift.
2.  "bob" hooked up his harness and grabbed the main cable one foot in the hook
3. "bob"   had the crane op  lower him in the hole
4. "bob" rigged the line  then gave the ok by 2 -way  radio
5.  the part in ?     well see since  "bob" was in the hole  and the only way out was to be lifted with the truck he road it up.   
Now your problay thinking why did he not jump off at ground level.
Well if he did that he would have to disconet his safety line  and then jump across the hole putting him self in danger of falling.
Also the crane and it's capacity is way over what the weight of the truck is problay around 80-90%
also if a line or hose line broke  there are safety systems  to provent a accident   (  lock lever on the drum ) ( holding valves on the hydro system)

[Rocksurfer [OP]]

Yup I work with hydraulic winches all day long, hoses do blow from time to time but the brake (2-way power valves on hydros) on the winch will not allow it to drop. As to the trench stupidity you are just asking for trouble when it is out of your control.  If you step inside an elevator you are basically relying on the same technology as that crane employs. Sure if the cable breaks on a elevator there are latches that snap out to prevent the elevator from falling but basically the same.

[V-Man]

Yup I work with hydraulic winches all day long, hoses do blow from time to time but the brake (2-way power valves on hydros) on the winch will not allow it to drop. As to the trench stupidity you are just asking for trouble when it is out of your control.  If you step inside an elevator you are basically relying on the same technology as that crane employs. Sure if the cable breaks on a elevator there are latches that snap out to prevent the elevator from falling but basically the same.

  thanks for covering the hydraulic/winch half of the system.   

 I can personally tell you that is about the way it is done. I know , because I do rigging and climb towers, chimney, poles, and etc.  That harness in a real pinch ( this is one of those don't try this at home kids things) could almost hold the weight of the Zuke.  Don't forget it's designed to arrest the fall of a full grown man, and 200lbs+ falling can make a Lot of weight. The fall arrestor used between the harness and the tie off point can be from 4 to 8 feet long.  You can get up a good head of steam in that distance.  In most cases you have to fall clear of the work area so as not to smash into it or surrounding dangers.  If I was working on top of an I-beam, with my anchor point one foot above my head, the fall arrestor I used would have to allow my to fall my height(say 6 feet) the distance between my head and the anchor point(1 foot) plus the distance  needed to clear the I-beam by a pre set standard(  most places use three to four feet as long as the worker will not strike a surface below ). Now lets add that up 6feet( my height)  + 1 foot( the over head clearance) + 5 to 6 feet (to clear work area safely), that means that my fall arrestor strap must extend to a lenght of 10 to 11 feet after it is fully extanded.  The strap would be about four to 5 feet long before the fall and then extend to it's full lenght when I fall. It would save me from serious injury, but be destroyed doing it. My harness is still useable but I have to have a new arrestor strap. That's how the system works.

[V-Man]

Its called common sense and yes nothing did happen and probably wouldnt. I guess its just how a person learns to work safely after years and  years in the field. Kinda like the small excavation owner/operator here in Portland that had his two sons in the ditch laying pipe with no shoring because of the same "nothing would happen, they'll be ok" attitude. Well the ditch caved and both sons died that day because of taking shortcuts. 5 minutes to install some speed shore or the rest of the fathers life thinking what he shoulda or coulda done. But hey its not me up there and you just cant learn some people.
 Cool pics of the rig in the hole tho.
And FYI the whip line runs off the same hydraulic system that the main drum does 

  The father didn't use the safety equipment, so there was problem. The rigger in the photo is using the right gear.  By the way if your truck gets stuck I know you don't want to use that winch on a truck it may fail or the cable could snap, or give you a very bad scratch.

[Rocksurfer [OP]]

I guess what this all boils down to is safety sure that crane could loose its footing and roll, and I wouldn't want to be the guy on the sammi. I used to operate a Petti-bone mobile crane loading trusses and such, well one day while loading a 50ft. x 15ft. truss a leg slipped and rolled the crane, I had about 6 guys scrambling for their lives since I had to try to drop the truss to keep from rolling. My momentum carried me over and I landed on the bed of the truck fortunatly everyone cleared and no one got hurt. The main reason no one was hurt is everyone was prepared and knew the signs of brewing trouble.


Just as the yahoo's in the Sammi should have realized what is usually at the top of tillings.

[KYOTA]

Yup I work with hydraulic winches all day long, hoses do blow from time to time but the brake (2-way power valves on hydros) on the winch will not allow it to drop.

so what stops the boom from collapsing if a boom cylinder hose goes? nothing!! you guys can argue all you want, funny thing is how much experience do you experts have around equipment?  and about the crane being 80%-90% under capacity for the lift, thats cool you can tell that just by looking at a picture, with no load chart, boom angle weight of rigging etc, oh yeah you have to know all that stuff. I've seen cranes go over because some yahoo who thought he knew what he was doing hopped on to pick a small bundle of 2x4s and over she goes, Ya kinda have to know a little more than just "its a crane it can pick up anything"  Its too bad it has to get to the point of injury or death for some people to realize some time they dont know what the hell they are doing. Do it how you want just remind me to be on the other side of the jobsite when your on the equipment. Oh and OSHA would have a hay day with that scenario 

[Rocksurfer [OP]]

Yup I work with hydraulic winches all day long, hoses do blow from time to time but the brake (2-way power valves on hydros) on the winch will not allow it to drop.

so what stops the boom from collapsing if a boom cylinder hose goes? nothing!! you guys can argue all you want, funny thing is how much experience do you experts have around equipment?  and about the crane being 80%-90% under capacity for the lift, thats cool you can tell that just by looking at a picture, with no load chart, boom angle weight of rigging etc, oh yeah you have to know all that stuff. I've seen cranes go over because some yahoo who thought he knew what he was doing hopped on to pick a small bundle of 2x4s and over she goes, Ya kinda have to know a little more than just "its a crane it can pick up anything"  Its too bad it has to get to the point of injury or death for some people to realize some time they dont know what the hell they are doing. Do it how you want just remind me to be on the other side of the jobsite when your on the equipment. Oh and OSHA would have a hay day with that scenario 

Um, used to operate a mobil crane (Hydro) and inside overhead (electric) crane. I have extensive experience in heavy recovery, medium recovery and light recovery. I was a certified operator in the early 80's with industrial steel. Again if the crane is equiped with power valves it will not drop even if a hose blows. The only thing that would cause the boom to drop would be ram failure or valve failure. Rams usually don't just fail and if the valve fails constant pressure on the lever will keep it up until everyone clears. Accidents do happen though and taking all precausions to insure the safety of everyone should be done. I didn't see a problem with him being attached to the crane. Now I think I'll see if I can be run over by a bus.

[unclejpl4x4]

ya dude     see at the end of the cly where the hose goes in to the block  theirs a holding valve a.k.a counter balance valve   it needs pressuse to open.

[Willy Mammoth]

 

[V-Man]

  ya just like a rubber necker as a car crash.. Ya just can to watch the fight right 

[KYOTA]

the more you guys argue the more you support my point    I've been an operator for 20 years and have seen a lot of stupid that could have been avoided. like I said some people just wont get it until what they say "shouldnt happen" happens.

[unclejpl4x4]

omg i love it