Author Topic: The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread (Read 911303 times)

GRW · « **Reply #1290 on:** Feb 18, 2015, 05:58:09 AM »

I drove my truck for a week (close to home) to check for issues before I started driving it to work.
I have a couple questions:
#1. What's the differance in RPM ranges, (between the 22RE & 3RZ)?
#2. What kind of mileage are people getting (I realise our trucks are not stock)?

ccolby · « **Reply #1291 on:** Feb 18, 2015, 03:27:23 PM »

I've found a 98 2RZ engine (2 coil pack), from a 2wd truck w/ a manual with a 100K on it. I was looking at it today and couldn't find the air box or mass air sensor. The truck is sort of disassembled, the wiring harnesses are out, but appear intact, the engine appears complete with all accessories including the fan, still in the frame. The front end clip has been cut off, the radiator and A/C condenser are long gone. . From what I can see of the frame rails, they appear straight. I couldn't get under the truck, but I could see the front cat, but not the rear. The fuel tank appears there, the evaporative canister is in a box in the cab, along with the computer and wiring harnesses. The cab and engine has been covered by a tarp and the truck hasn't run for about 7 years.
My plan is to install this engine into a 88 4runner, that has a V-6 (big surprise, popped a head gasket). I've already put a solid axle under it. From reading this blog, I know I need to get the T-100 oil pan and pick up tube for the 2RZ engine.

I have a few questions for the 2/3RZ swap folks.

1) Would you negotiate a deal on this truck, what would be a fair price to pay?
2) Can I use a mass air flow and filter box from another 2/3RZ
3) Will my transmission bolt up to the bell housing from the 2wd transmission
4) if the rear cat is missing, can I use a generic cat or does it have to be a Toyota cat.

I'm planning on going back this weekend and doing a compression tests and look at all the parts again.
Is there anything I'm missing or should ask or think about.
Appreciate any help, guidance you guys can provide.

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1292 on:** Feb 18, 2015, 04:03:26 PM »

1) Would you negotiate a deal on this truck, what would be a fair price to pay?

Depends. The motor is unknown condition. Could have 300k on it. It's partial and incomplete. <$500 is where I'd start.

2) Can I use a mass air flow and filter box from another 2/3RZ

Sure. You'll have to match the ignition type. Exactly which years are compatible, I'm not sure.

3) Will my transmission bolt up to the bell housing from the 2wd transmission

No. It appears that you need a 2TR (later model tacoma) bellhousing.

Read: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-tacoma/682430-3rz-r151-single-twin-stick.html

4) if the rear cat is missing, can I use a generic cat or does it have to be a Toyota cat.

Generics work fine. Size it appropriately.

ccolby · « **Reply #1293 on:** Feb 24, 2015, 01:48:32 PM »

What's the most popular year engine. I have found source on a 97 or 98 engine. Looking at both the 97 had a distributor (200K miles), still in the truck. Only missing fuel tank. The 98 (100K miles) had two coil packs, engine is in the frame, but missing MAF and air box.
Both appear to have complete wiring harness.
Looking @ options.
Thinking of putting one of these in a 88 4runner.
I have a Toyota supercharger from a Previa van, thinking of putting that on too.

GRW · « **Reply #1294 on:** Feb 25, 2015, 05:49:02 AM »

The non-distributor model has some advantages but I would not discount the ones with them either.
I think the biggest thing is to get as much (if not everything) you are going to need from the same truck (less issues during the conversion).
I have a 96 (distributor model) it runs great.

Nation · « **Reply #1295 on:** Feb 25, 2015, 08:21:58 AM »

If I had to do it over again... I'd get a dual coil 8 port 3rz.

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #1296 on:** Mar 04, 2015, 07:09:59 AM »

Hey guys I'm going to have to change my exhaust routing on my swap when I go to dual cases. I'd rather not have to go under the transmission/transfer cases obviously so I'm wondering if you guys could share some pictures of how you routed yours running dual cases. Thanks. $Beer Chug\'n$

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1297 on:** Mar 04, 2015, 04:36:19 PM »

Mine has a x over right up under the tranny. Its 2.25 all the way back, just tucked up close. Doesn't hang down much.

GRW · « **Reply #1298 on:** Mar 05, 2015, 05:05:11 AM »

Mine crosses back behind the back of the t-case.

Nation · « **Reply #1299 on:** Mar 05, 2015, 07:35:09 AM »

Mine crosses underneath the bellhousing. I cut the flange off of the lead pipe and clocked it towards the driver side.. welded flange back on..

RyanV · « **Reply #1300 on:** Mar 06, 2015, 06:40:22 AM »

Quote from: Nation on Mar 05, 2015, 07:35:09 AM

Mine crosses underneath the bellhousing. I cut the flange off of the lead pipe and clocked it towards the driver side.. welded flange back on..

We did the exact same thing.

Mudslide · « **Reply #1301 on:** Mar 10, 2015, 09:02:23 PM »

Quote from: dcg9381 on Jan 25, 2015, 08:22:36 AM

I used the pan from NW Team Yota. A few install tips tricks:

1) You need to remove the drivers side transmission support "wing" from the motor before the pan will fit.
2) Test fit the pan. Mine required "adjustment" on a few of the mounting holes.
3) I had to clearance the drivers side transmission support wing to get it to go back on. Photo below.
4) There is a transmission bolt that goes through the support wing. It's the bolt that goes through, not the bolt that treads on to the wing. This bolt MUST be installed prior to bolting up the transmission and pan, otherwise there is no way to get it in. That is you'll be stabbing the transmission and tightening this bolt at the same time. Unfortunately, I don't have a photo.
5) Check the fitting of the oil pickup where it goes into the front cover on the 2rz. It's been reported that this may not seal correctly. This is a big deal, as you otherwise won't be pulling oil from the pan.

So these transmission support wings (bellhousing stiffener plates) appear to only be on 2RZ engines, 2WD. I couldn't find any 3RZ versions. Seems odd that a 2RZ bellhousing has stiffener plates and a 3RZ doesn't? I have a few empty holes on my 3RZ bellhousing after mating to my W56 trans and would like to make this setup as strong as possible. Any thoughts?

RyanV · « **Reply #1302 on:** Mar 10, 2015, 10:56:28 PM »

Quote from: Mudslide on Mar 10, 2015, 09:02:23 PM

So these transmission support wings (bellhousing stiffener plates) appear to only be on 2RZ engines, 2WD. I couldn't find any 3RZ versions. Seems odd that a 2RZ bellhousing has stiffener plates and a 3RZ doesn't? I have a few empty holes on my 3RZ bellhousing after mating to my W56 trans and would like to make this setup as strong as possible. Any thoughts?

That is super odd, but it looks like you're right about the 3RZ not having the plates. The bellhousing is the same part number for either engine too. Does the block have the holes for the stiffener plates?

2rz BH 31111-35070
3rz BH 31111-35070

here are the part numbers if you have the holes in the block.

91612-61035 x 2 stiffener bolts to block
90080-11340 x 2 stiffener bolts to block
33118-26011 stiffener rh
33119-35040 stiffener lh
91612-61040 x 3 bolts to BH
the lower RH side plate to BH uses 1 bolt I cant tell what the part number is

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1303 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 09:58:41 AM »

I put them on my 3rz. Didn't seem real strong without it. And I had to modify the one I used on the drivers side too.

RyanV · « **Reply #1304 on:** Mar 11, 2015, 08:12:26 PM »

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Mar 11, 2015, 09:58:41 AM

I put them on my 3rz. Didn't seem real strong without it. And I had to modify the one I used on the drivers side too.

That is just too weird they didnt put them on the more powerful engine and heavier trucks.

Mudslide · « **Reply #1305 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 07:51:06 AM »

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Mar 11, 2015, 09:58:41 AM

I put them on my 3rz. Didn't seem real strong without it. And I had to modify the one I used on the drivers side too.

Quote from: RyanV on Mar 11, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

That is just too weird they didnt put them on the more powerful engine and heavier trucks.

My thoughts exactly.
The block does have the bolt holes, as does the bell housing.
Thanks for those part #'s!

My junkyard search continues for some stiffener plates.
Thanks guys.

j4wheelintoys · « **Reply #1306 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 03:46:04 PM »

I recently swapped a 3rz into my 87 4 runner. The engine was completely rebuilt, balance shafts deleted and the head machines for better air flow. The entire engine is brand new. I have an issue though I am hoping for some help on. I starts right up, no CEL and runs great. When I shut it off, it will not re start right away and seems to take an ever changing amount of time to re start. The fuel pump seems fine, it seems to be getting spark and it turns over great, but will not fire. Then randomly it eventually start. Does anyone have any idea where to start in order to find the issue. I am sure it is something I did. And thanks for everyone's help to this point. Without this forum I would still be struggling to start the swap.

RyanV · « **Reply #1307 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 06:11:51 PM »

how were the fuel lines ran? just wondering if it's possibly vapor locking

rcbro · « **Reply #1308 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 07:10:56 PM »

I have a curiosity question in regards to the rear temp sensor on these RZ motors. Hoping you all have an answer. I don't claim to understand everything about the operation of these motors but have wired several code free.

On two conversions that I've played with, I've noticed that with this rear temp sensor unplugged the motors won't start. Anyone know the reason behind this?

Nation · « **Reply #1309 on:** Mar 12, 2015, 11:27:49 PM »

That sensor (coolant temp to ecu) tells the ecu what the temperature of the coolant and sends the appropriate amount of fuel to start the motor given that temp. It will start after a while of cranking.. or on a hot day/still hot from running. Good anti theft device too

j4wheelintoys · « **Reply #1310 on:** Mar 13, 2015, 08:06:02 AM »

Quote from: RyanV on Mar 12, 2015, 06:11:51 PM

how were the fuel lines ran? just wondering if it's possibly vapor locking

The fuel lines were switched to the driver's side above the transmission. I thought about a vapor lock issue as well but then saw the above post regarding the rear temp sensor and now am wondering if that could be the issue. I can not duplicate the problem as it is completely random. Other than that the motor is awesome. Thanks for you help, I will double check the temp around the fuel lines

Nation · « **Reply #1311 on:** Mar 13, 2015, 09:53:27 AM »

Quote from: j4wheelintoys on Mar 12, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

I recently swapped a 3rz into my 87 4 runner. The engine was completely rebuilt, balance shafts deleted and the head machines for better air flow. The entire engine is brand new. I have an issue though I am hoping for some help on. I starts right up, no CEL and runs great. When I shut it off, it will not re start right away.

What year 3RZ? Usually the coolant temp to ecu has the opposite effect. Wont start/ 5 Minute HARD Start WHEN ITS cold. Will usually fire right up after its been running and the motor has reached operating temperature. Not to say that's not your problem...

j4wheelintoys · « **Reply #1312 on:** Mar 14, 2015, 01:21:39 PM »

It is a 98 and thanks for the info. The wiring harness and computer all came from the same vehicle. I fear I facing an electrical issue someplace but am not sure where to start to look.

RyanV · « **Reply #1313 on:** Mar 17, 2015, 09:26:20 PM »

I just wanted to point out something I found with my swap that could potentially be a fire hazard.

If you use the stock charcoal vapor canister you might want to replace the bottom hose with a much longer 5/16 fuel hose, and run it down along the outside frame somewhere. You can use a couple MARINCO Adhesive Cable Tie Mounting Bases/zip ties to attach the hose to the frame. Clean the frame with acetone fingernail polish remover for beast adhesion. This will keep the fuel vapor far AWAY from the exhaust.

I could smell fumes when I got home from the pressure in the gas tank. I could see fumes just pouring out of that bottom hose which is right about where the exhaust downpipe is! Yikes! You have to remember the 22RE exhaust was on the other side so this wasn't an issue.

Typically the tank only draws fresh air up through that hose, but I think that with excess tank pressure the vapor can is overwhelmed and you get vapor spewing from that line, especially if it's hot outside. I actually found my vapor canister to be bad and went to the junkyard and found another one that is in better shape.

You can test the vapor canister easily.

this is a link to a pic of how to test the vapor canister

https://flic.kr/p/rBfT4w

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1314 on:** Mar 19, 2015, 06:52:34 PM »

Quote from: j4wheelintoys on Mar 14, 2015, 01:21:39 PM

It is a 98 and thanks for the info. The wiring harness and computer all came from the same vehicle. I fear I facing an electrical issue someplace but am not sure where to start to look.

For megasquirt stuff, I measured the resistance curve of that rear temp sensor. Basically, as the resistance goes up (tends toward an open circuit) the colder the ECU will think it is. Typically, most ECUs will add fuel under this circumstance.. Probably over-fueling if you unplug it.

Temperature Ohms

163F 379 ohms

70F 2479 ohms

35F 5355 ohms

Ref: http://www.2rzturbo.net/?p=82

n6dlh · « **Reply #1315 on:** Apr 01, 2015, 08:27:08 AM »

Quote from: dcg9381 on Mar 19, 2015, 06:52:34 PM

For megasquirt stuff, I measured the resistance curve of that rear temp sensor. Basically, as the resistance goes up (tends toward an open circuit) the colder the ECU will think it is. Typically, most ECUs will add fuel under this circumstance.. Probably over-fueling if you unplug it.

Temperature Ohms

163F 379 ohms

70F 2479 ohms

35F 5355 ohms

Ref: http://www.2rzturbo.net/?p=82

Most ECT's are negative temp co efficiency. Meaning the the temp goes up, the resistance goes down. So if you were to unplug the sensor the ECM will usually default to -40f. If it is cold outside it will usually start, just run rich. As the vehicle gets warm it requires less fuel to start, so after it reaches operating temp, it will usually not start due to a flood condition. After it cools down it will usually start, might just take longer.

Nation · « **Reply #1316 on:** Apr 01, 2015, 08:54:21 AM »

I have almost the opposite happen to me. If it's hot and is unplugged it'll fire right up. If ITS Cold Outside AND THE MOTOR Is cold it takes forever to fire up. I feel like it only starts after the Pistons have cranked over soo many times and now the motor is a actually a little warm from trying to start it for so long. THE ONLY TIME I HAD THIS IS SUE WAS WHEN I FIRST INSTALLED THE MOTOR AND THE SENSOR WAS BROKEN.

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1317 on:** Apr 13, 2015, 07:08:50 AM »

You're going to MS that thing soon anyway....

Leady · « **Reply #1318 on:** Apr 14, 2015, 05:49:57 AM »

Keeping with the current topic of hard starts, mine didn't like to start when it was hot. I'm not sure if it's related to everyone else's issue because I only ran the truck one weekend before the water pump pulley spun on the crank. It's been rebuilt and should be running in a day or two. I did notice the sensor clip was broken but I'm pretty sure it was plugged in when I took the motor out. My balance shafts were wiped out same with #4 rod bearing. Glad to know I have somewhere else to look at if the issue is still there after its running again.

rockymtn89 · « **Reply #1319 on:** Apr 25, 2015, 09:59:43 AM »

Lots of good information here! Thanks to all the contributors. I'm looking at swapping a 3rz into my 1989 22RE 4Runner. It already has SAS, R151f turbo tranny and dual cases. I would like to keep the R151f tranny when I do the swap and am looking for more information on the appropriate bellhousing. I've read the thread here about the 2TR option: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-tacoma/682430-3rz-r151-single-twin-stick-2.html and it seems that the lengths of the input shaft might be different between years. Anyone have first hand experience with the 2TR bell? 2wd or 4wd? Does it fit earlier R-series transmissions?

Also, what clutch/slave cylinder components should be used when mating the R151f to the 3rz? I just want to know what components to start sourcing so that the swap goes more easily. Thanks for the help!

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